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  1. #1
    Jonesy's Avatar
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    S3 not as fast as i thought.....

    Hi, got the s3 the other day, but its just not performing how i expected it to. Ive been reading the forums and lack of power can be due to the dump valve, so im gonna get a new one, what do you guys recommend? Also im going to try get a remap done this week, where do you guys think is the best place they all seem to charge about the same, btw im in south east kent, near dartford.

    Thanks dudes

    Allan

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    amd or jabbasport, i had mine done at jabba great guy's. as for dumpvalve i run a bailey dv30 i would either go that or a forge dv.
    sneaky silver s3.

  4. #3
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    Hi thanks for the reply, what about the standard bosch dv's from audi, they meant to be 20 quid and the aftermarket ones offer no more power gains or difference to the original. Well thats what ive been reading anyway.

    Anyone got a code so i can order one at audi 2moro, just so it makes it easier for the parts man, as most are pretty dumb.

    I may go amd, its about an hour drive so not too far.

    Allan

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    YX1010

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    In another club i belong to there are a few guys running Forge DV and claim they are quite good. Myself im running the stock Bosch one and have been running upto 25psi without problems. Personally both units will work well, so id go for the cheaper of the two, and hey... bosch is a bloody good brand :-)
    2000 AUDI S3 GOODWIN GREEN | SUPERCHIP STAGE II REMAP | FULL REMUS CAT-LESS EXHAUST SYSTEM | EIP COMPETITION SHORTSHIFT KIT WITH STS | BMC PANEL FILTER | DBA FRONT AND REAR SLOTTED ROTORS | QUINTEN HAZEL PADS | CUSTOM ENGINE MOUNT | MORE TO COME SHORTLY...

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    S3s arent that quick really. A remap really does make a difference tho.
    back to boost, oh how I missed thee....

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    Depends whether "not as fast as I thought" is because there's a fault or not. Don't get it remapped until you are sure everything's working. Most good remap companies will check everything out before doing the map, but discuss it with them first.
    Audi A4 3.0 TDI Quattro 2008 - Ice Silver

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    Quote Originally Posted by YX1010
    In another club i belong to there are a few guys running Forge DV and claim they are quite good. Myself im running the stock Bosch one and have been running upto 25psi without problems. Personally both units will work well, so id go for the cheaper of the two, and hey... bosch is a bloody good brand :-)
    Bosch aren't that great fella, they supply both the DV and MAF for the S3 and neither have very good reliability.

    Jonesy: If you car is genuinly running slow, although the DV can be a cause it's not the only thing it could be. Would be worth getting it on VAG-COM to check for any fault codes...

    If you are interested in a remap and don't know anyone with VAG-COM then i have an idea; REVO offer a 5 hour free trial of their software. Any REVO dealer will upload it to your car but before they do, they'll check your ECU for fault codes .

    I'd suggest that if you are looking to modify your car, get any problems sorted first. If you up the power then any niggling little problems will seem worse.

  9. #8
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    It could be the maf not functioning properly,they can go so gradually that you dont notice until its really bad,try unplugging maf and see if it feels better.When mafs go they dont always come up as a fault.If it goes better with it disconnected(dont leave it unplugged its just a quick test)then get a reconditioned one from the stealer or theres a guy on ebay selling the just the sensor parts (tube is reusable)very cheap and just takes mins to change.Cheers Andy
    06 A4 AVANT QUATTRO 2.0T S-LINE SE,GARNET RED, RS4 REAR ARB,SPACERS ALLROUND,H & R SPRINGS,B5 PERCHES,A6 V8 RIMS.PORSCHE CAYENNE TURBO S SIX POTS .REVO ST2 MAP ,MILLTEK CATBACK EXHAUST,PANEL FILTER,034 INTAKE PIPE.

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    yes def worth checking the MAF and I believe there is revo dealer over lakeside way

    I am in SE28 so not far from you - AMD will take you maybe 2.5+ hours each way with the state of M25 in Essex at the moment
    (I drove to oxford 2 weeks ago and regretted it big time)

    you choice but a long drive if you need to go back for any reason
    2001 Silver A3 T sport,S3 Spoiler, RS4 alloys, AMD stage 1........new ECU.... :-(

  11. #10
    Whoever does not try, does not learn.

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    I've got a Forge DV installed on mine; went to Big Boy Stoys near Lakeside on Saturday and got a 5 hour free trial upgrade, car was pushing out ~265bhp and was it quick!! they found a fault on my MAF which they reset - which I'm sure it's going to throw a fault again once the 5 hour trial is finished.
    Audi S3 (52) 265bhp Revo Stage 1

  12. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonesy
    Hi, got the s3 the other day, but its just not performing how i expected it to. Ive been reading the forums and lack of power can be due to the dump valve, so im gonna get a new one, what do you guys recommend? Also im going to try get a remap done this week, where do you guys think is the best place they all seem to charge about the same, btw im in south east kent, near dartford.

    Thanks dudes

    Allan
    Yo, something else to bear in mind... I know you've only recently got the car, right? OK, well the S3 has a set of "adaptive values", which change the engine management depending on how you drive. If the previous owner was a soft-touch, it will be configured for economy rather than performance. My advice -drive it HOW YOU DRIVE for a couple of weeks. I promise, it will make a difference... DON'T DO ANYTHING SMART until then... You may be surprised...
    If you felt so inclined, you can speed up the changes by asking Audi (or anyone with VAG-COM) to reset the adaptive values and it'll start learning all over again...

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    Hi, its really pulling harder now thro the revs must be the way ive drove it, still seems to lose a bit of power when high in the revs, im sure its the dv. Going in to bigboystoys in essex 2moro, and gonna ask to check for errors on the ecu and check that maf???? what does MAF stand for btw.

    Allan

  14. #13
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    mass air flow sensor
    2002 225 S3, metallic black, REVO, 18" RSTT alloys, goodyear Eagle F1s, silver leather heated seats, tinted windows, H&R spacers, black diamond grooved discs & Ferrodo DS2500 pads, BOSE system, xenons, forge DV, samco TIP & upper boost hoses.

  15. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by campbell
    mass air flow sensor
    Probably...
    Dolphin Grey Audi S3 8P

  16. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by S3 YEA
    Yo, something else to bear in mind... I know you've only recently got the car, right? OK, well the S3 has a set of "adaptive values", which change the engine management depending on how you drive. If the previous owner was a soft-touch, it will be configured for economy rather than performance. My advice -drive it HOW YOU DRIVE for a couple of weeks. I promise, it will make a difference... DON'T DO ANYTHING SMART until then... You may be surprised...
    If you felt so inclined, you can speed up the changes by asking Audi (or anyone with VAG-COM) to reset the adaptive values and it'll start learning all over again...
    Is this really true?

    My girlfriend took my S3 on a long road trip last weekend (400 miles) and I know she drives very sensibly (er slowly), she never floors it and the MPG is always really high when she gets back!

    The last two days with me back at the wheel, it DOES feel less quick than before she drove it.

    Could this be the "adaptive values"? Grateful for others take on this as I've never heard of it.
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  17. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by monkeytrousers
    Is this really true?

    My girlfriend took my S3 on a long road trip last weekend (400 miles) and I know she drives very sensibly (er slowly), she never floors it and the MPG is always really high when she gets back!

    The last two days with me back at the wheel, it DOES feel less quick than before she drove it.

    Could this be the "adaptive values"? Grateful for others take on this as I've never heard of it.
    Definately mate... Lots of decent cars do it. If YOU drive it for a while again now, you'll find it'll change again after a while. Note that it can take quite a surprisingly long time to fully adjust, but subtle differences (like earlier or later turbo whistle sound, even slightly better / worse acceleration) are noticable very soon. Give it a longer while though is my advice. I find it can take a considerable amount of time to FULLY adjust. BMW cars do this too. Don't know about others.

  18. #17
    jojo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by monkeytrousers
    Is this really true?

    My girlfriend took my S3 on a long road trip last weekend (400 miles) and I know she drives very sensibly (er slowly), she never floors it and the MPG is always really high when she gets back!

    The last two days with me back at the wheel, it DOES feel less quick than before she drove it.

    Could this be the "adaptive values"? Grateful for others take on this as I've never heard of it.
    The so called adaptive values is actually the sensitivity of the throttle to the engine as it is electronic, so if the ECU detects you are cruising on the motorway at 70mph, the throttle will only need little travel to keep to speed, but around town driving, the throttle becomes lazy, helping you to modulate the revs better in traffic. You will also notice the throttle response getting sharper when you go for a spirited run, this probably take about 1 mile of fast driving, then the car comes alive... however, I must state that this is definitely the case for my car(1999 model with no ESP), others have not experienced this and think it's a load of rubbish.
    You can reset the electronic throttle(tell the ECU where the maximum and minimum throttle position) with the following procedure, if you think the throttle is too lazy.
    Put key in an turn to ignition but don't start the car up, now press the throttle all the way down to max for 5 secs, and then release fully for 5 sec, now start yur car up and your off, this will only work on cars with electronic throttle, not cable throttles.




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    The Bosch me7 ECU can and does adapt more parameters than throttle sensitivity (although i've not heard of the throttle one myself ), then again my AGU doesn't have an electronic throttle . It can adapt for fuel quality and ambient temps and probably a host of other things as it tables hundreds of parameters to keep the 1.8T running.

    As for your misses grannying it for 400miles, yes it is possible that you would notice a difference. But in reality i'd expect it to take perhaps 3 full tanks of driving for it to make a significant alteration to anything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jojo
    Put key in an turn to ignition but don't start the car up, now press the throttle all the way down to max for 5 secs, and then release fully for 5 sec, now start yur car up and your off, this will only work on cars with electronic throttle, not cable throttles.

    That's a new one on me...

    So is this designed to reset the adaption to the throttle potentiometer?

    So this is independant of the throttle body adaptation reset?

    Be interesting to know how it adapts these two independantly of each other.

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    I definately think this happens too. When i first got my car it didnt feel quick at all, especially on the test drive. I still decided to buy it though even though i was dissapointed with the performance. After a week or two (including the 300 mile drive home) it started to feel like it was pulling much harder throughout the revs, and actually giving you a bit of a kick in the back. A mate of mine also commented that it felt much quicker than when i first got it. I suspected something like that but wasnt sure.

    Moral of the story - buy a slow S3 its been treated nice
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  22. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallpaul
    That's a new one on me...

    So is this designed to reset the adaption to the throttle potentiometer?

    So this is independant of the throttle body adaptation reset?

    Be interesting to know how it adapts these two independantly of each other.
    This is a bit of a grey area. Some say it works, some say it doesn't.

    I always use vagcom to do it.
    Dolphin Grey Audi S3 8P

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    Quote Originally Posted by dickys3
    This is a bit of a grey area. Some say it works, some say it doesn't.

    I always use vagcom to do it.
    What are you selecting in VAG-COM?

    AFAIK the only option is throttle adaptation reset? This is the same as disconnecting the battery for a few mins, turning on ignition, waiting for the TB to stop beeping and whirring then starting the car - doesn't involve the pedal at all.

    I thought the throttle position sensor was just a potentiometer, the ECU always knows what position it's in but the variation of how much throttle that equates to is perfomed at the inlet mani?
    Last edited by Tallpaul; 12th September 2006 at 15:27.

  24. #23
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    im curious of this working or not?
    2002 225 S3, metallic black, REVO, 18" RSTT alloys, goodyear Eagle F1s, silver leather heated seats, tinted windows, H&R spacers, black diamond grooved discs & Ferrodo DS2500 pads, BOSE system, xenons, forge DV, samco TIP & upper boost hoses.

  25. #24
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    I think it's ********, don't think the S3 ecu learns driving style as such, it will addapt over time to higher octane petrol etc but not throttle input.

  26. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by god_thats_quick
    I think it's ********, don't think the S3 ecu learns driving style as such, it will addapt over time to higher octane petrol etc but not throttle input.
    OK, whatever. You guys believe whatever you like... I KNOW this as absolute fact... If anyone here is an authority on the subject (ie, an Audi mechanic or programmer or whatever), do you not agree?

  27. #26
    jojo's Avatar
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    Well, I did suggest it was the case for my car, why don't any of you guys actually try it and give some feedback?, I think I actually got the info from the TTForum, or a another forum which talks about TT's, but that was 4 years ago...



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  28. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by god_thats_quick
    I think it's ********, don't think the S3 ecu learns driving style as such, it will addapt over time to higher octane petrol etc but not throttle input.
    Thats because you thrash it everywhere. You could try driving sensibly for 400 miles and see if it makes a difference?

  29. #28
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    Just had a look round the web and found this, it's talking about a Mercedes:

    Driving dynamics tailored to driver requirements

    Mercedes-Benz also offers a newly developed system which recognises individual driving styles and adapts the drive characteristics of the engine accordingly, further adding to the dynamic driving experience. For those that fancy themselves as racing drivers, the ECU does its best to accommodate, providing excellent accelerator response. If on the other hand the computer detects a driver looking for comfort rather than speed, it adapts the ECU control characteristics, harmonising the four-cylinder engine settings to suit this particular style of driving.

    To ensure there is no doubt when detecting the driving style or the driver's requirements, the system monitors the pedal movements extremely closely and records every instance of acceleration before adapting the pedal characteristics. This is a continual step-by-step process which ensures that the driving characteristics never contradict the driver's expectations.

    In the case of a sporty driving style, the pedal characteristics change so that, although pedal travel may remain the same, the throttle valve is opened further than would usually be the case. The engine therefore reacts quicker to driver input and is quicker to provide maximum acceleration. If a more comfort-oriented driving style is detected, the ECU sets flatter pedal characteristics. In this instance, although the pedal travel remains the same, the throttle valve opens more slowly than usual and acceleration is more "gentle".

    Source: http://www.carpages.co.uk/mercedes_b...s_08_07_02.asp
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  30. #29
    YX1010

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    Quote Originally Posted by S3 YEA
    OK, whatever. You guys believe whatever you like... I KNOW this as absolute fact... If anyone here is an authority on the subject (ie, an Audi mechanic or programmer or whatever), do you not agree?
    The ECU will accomodate various fuel octane grades. The car takes approx 200kms to adjust to the different octane ratings.

    (source - Audi Mechanic @ Audi dealership)
    2000 AUDI S3 GOODWIN GREEN | SUPERCHIP STAGE II REMAP | FULL REMUS CAT-LESS EXHAUST SYSTEM | EIP COMPETITION SHORTSHIFT KIT WITH STS | BMC PANEL FILTER | DBA FRONT AND REAR SLOTTED ROTORS | QUINTEN HAZEL PADS | CUSTOM ENGINE MOUNT | MORE TO COME SHORTLY...

    280 HP S3

  31. #30
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    interesting read, had the car remapped yesterday, feels better and is gettig faster especially on the way home from work 2day. The bloke at revo also told me about the ecu learning driving styles. Clever cars the audis.....
    2001 Audi S3 - Facelift - Revo remap - Forge 007p DV - BMC Panel Filter- Type R Ariel - Aero wipers - n75j valve.

  32. #31
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    Interesting info for those who think the pedal thing was b*llocks:

    VAG-COM can log 'Throttle Position' as a %.

    Just been chatting to a guy who was only getting 85% when fully pressing the accelerator pedal. He then performed an 'Engine Adaptation Reset' with VAG-COM (basically reset everything he could see on the Engine module display) and lo and behold his 'Throttle Position' reads 100% again. He had recently been Grannying it because his turbo blew due to an blocked oil line so has been running in the new blower.

    There you go, throttle position IS also adapted to driving style.

  33. #32
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    I thank you, I thank you all...



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  34. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by j4jon
    Thats because you thrash it everywhere. You could try driving sensibly for 400 miles and see if it makes a difference?
    ohhhh cheeky, I don't drive like that the whole time actually Jon...

    I've managed to get around 400miles out of a tank of optimax before which is trying pretty hard to drive smoothly in my book, I just don't think the car learns in the way people are saying tiss all. The adapting to quality of fuel yes, driving style no.

  35. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by god_thats_quick
    I just don't think the car learns in the way people are saying tiss all.
    The ME7 ECU isn't KITT, it just adapts certain parameters based on the input from a multitude of sensors. Trimming ignition timing, boost, or throttle sensitivity isn't voodoo.

  36. #35
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    I'm aware it's not voodoo, loads of cars adapt to driving style however I'm just not convinced the S3 does in this way (throttle sensitivity), I've asked Bosch for there thoughts on the ECU and what it does in this respect.

    PS... I have no problem being totally wrong and made to look like an idiot (which happens a lot) I'm just not convinced (yet).

  37. #36
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    Bloody hell I've already had a response from Bosch, they didn't want to email me a response as it'd be too long winded so they are sending me a technical manual that covers all the iterations of the motronic system.

    I am VERY impressed with their customer service!

  38. #37
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    lol, good luck with reading that! There are hundreds used just for the VAG 1.8T, never mind that Motronic has been used in most EFI systems for the last 20 years!

    Would be interesting to browse and see whether any of it is decipherable

  39. #38
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    I have a GReddy Intelligent Informeter, plugged it in the OBDII port earlier for a play and there's an option for throttle%, it sometimes goes to max% on fullthrottle and sometimes doesn't, so cetainly adaptive from my point of view...



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  40. #39
    Numptie of the highest order

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    Still in shock - the Motronic manual arrived this morning haven't had time to read any of it yet, but I think it should answer my questions as it seems detailed enough!

    Bosch -

  41. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by god_thats_quick
    Still in shock - the Motronic manual arrived this morning haven't had time to read any of it yet, but I think it should answer my questions as it seems detailed enough!

    Bosch -
    That's disgusting, haven't these people got anything better to do than run around answering customer enquiries?

    Have you got a scanner? Post up the good stuff.

 

 
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