S3 v 993

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imported_glen_jai

Guest
Just wondering if anyone here has ever owned one.
If so, how does it compare to an S3? Not just performance-wise, but also the other important aspects such as living with the car (maintenance cost, reliability issues, driving experience etc.).

comments?

cheers.
 
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DAVID R>>> /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/comeon.gif

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He's the man to comment..

Compared to a standard 3...no comparison.

Compared to a well sorted S3...the S3 can be quicker out of tight corners...and up to 70 ish MPH. Above that I think the 993 pulls away.

The standard 993 will most likely match even a well sorted S3's handling most of the time...but does it with much more excitement.

The S3 is easy to drive...even for a first drive.
The 993 not so...I's still frightened of Davids! Not as easy as a 996 to drive.
 
Does the way the pedals pivot from the floor, and being so close together make it a difficult drive?
I drove one, but only briefly, and found that the pedals took a lot of getting use to.
 
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Does the way the pedals pivot from the floor, and being so close together make it a difficult drive?
I drove one, but only briefly, and found that the pedals took a lot of getting use to.

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Yeah, they do to me...
and the steering weight
and the gearlever throw
and the whole feel of the car

But, once you presevere it would be worth it...
I take my hat off to avid R...he's as quick as me everywhere in a car that frightens me and is nowhere near as easy to drive as mine.
 
Personally i'd take a boxster 3.2s over a 993 .Just as quick ,better handling.
 
Hmm - is this some sort of groundhog thread - I'm damn sure I have answered a similar question before...

There isn't an easy comparison to be drawn between an S3 and 993, other than the 4 wheels and internal combustion.

The 993 is a tricky car to drive and it's taken me 6 months to get used to it and finally drive it at pace. The balance is so fine that cornering is almost subliminal as the balance between understeer and oversteer is played.

An average driver will be quicker in an S3. A competant driver will be quicker in the 993, especially in the wet where the feedback provides so much information about road conditions.

I have never driven a car that pleases so much - it's laugh out loud good and I never tire of throwing it about - and as Glen says, it can keep up with the higher powered, more composed 996 with some provocation.

If you are a driver then do it - you simply won't regret it (and even if you do the residuals are rock solid so you won't make a loss)

993 vs Boxster - hmm. very different cars. The boxster is easier to drive, whether that makes it better handling is arguable. I would look camper than a row of tents in a boxster, so for me, not so much.

The 993 is a legend. Simple.
 
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Does the way the pedals pivot from the floor, and being so close together make it a difficult drive?
I drove one, but only briefly, and found that the pedals took a lot of getting use to.

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You didn't notice the fact they are offset to the left too /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

It's all easy to get used to, but there are few cars that feel quite so alien for the first few drives!
 
For me the nsx for a drivers car of similar power to a 993 is probably the best of the older bunch.
 
Hideously expensive to maintain. I borrowed one for the weekend from the classic club - 2 tyres and a clutch consumed - both tend to last less than 10,000 miles.

Not good - but a fantastic car!
 
Most nsx's and 993's do alot less than 10,000 miles a year though.
Porsches aren't exactly cheap either ask nervus.
 
Yes, sorry David. I was eager to see if anyone on the S3 forum had any comments to make. Weren't sure they'd see it on the "other marques" page.

Thanks for all the info though.

I'm really in two minds at the moment. I use my motorbike most days of the week to commute to/from work, and only really use my car on the weekends.
I really like the idea of a driver's car, but I also enjoy the comforts and luxuries of the s3.
Everytime I drive my sister's boxster S, it makes my car feel sooo darn boring.

Suppose things I'm really worried about is all those niggly problems that are never realistic to rectify like squeaks and rattles. So what is the build quality like in that respect David?

And do you think buying one with over 100k on the clock is ok? I see quite a few with high miles on them, but still going for a lot of dough.
 
The 993 is virtually bullet proof if serviced regularly. They are the last of the over engineered Porsches, hence why the residuals are so high c.f. the later 996 3.4's.

Squeeks and rattles are none existent. Many comlplain about the dated dash etc, but i personally love it. I just hate the offset pedal box and steering column (LHD are the same BTW) but im sure if i drove one more often i could get used to it.

Still another league to a bland S3 and thouroughly still more reliable, even with more then 100k on the clock.
 
Good points nervus...

Sure, a 993 will cost you more to maintain...a clutch change on a c4 at £1200 ish, each time you visit the dealer / specialist you seem to loose a chunk of £500 from your bank account...but they don't break and don't need work very often.

Keep the service history up, and they won't loose money either...

so all in all, probably cost neutral (or even slightly better) than a depreciating S3 that's getting old and needs work.

My annual service at the OPC was cheaper for my C4S than for my S3!
Work that out...
 
Well Its £800 + to extend the warranty on my S3 and £600 + for the 911.

The S3 is worth ~ £15k and the 911 ~£58,000

That to me says alot about the confidence the manufacturer has in their machinery.

and yes, Ess-Three the 911 is cheaper to service too (consumables aside).

Sure the 911TT ate brakes but its meant to, it out stops everthing on the road kg for kg by a considerable distance.
 
I thought Top Gear did a thing once where a Peugeot 106 came close to the same stopping distance?
 
yeah okay but from what speed. A 106 GTI will only do 120. Porsche brakes have to scrub higher speeds more efficeintly. Just check out the stoppers all round on a 911TT!

A 911 will probably go to 100mph and stop before the pug reaches 100mph. I meant to illustrate the braking performance from proper high performance speeds such as from 180mph - 0 in whatever?.

Apparantly untill 997 C4S it had the best production braking stats for production cars manufactured in numbers greater than like 10 (as per zondas)
 
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yeah okay but from what speed. A 106 GTI will only do 120. Porsche brakes have to scrub higher speeds more efficeintly. Just check out the stoppers all round on a 911TT!


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And they'll do it again, and again, and again...

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Apparantly untill 997 C4S it had the best production braking stats for production cars manufactured in numbers greater than like 10 (as per zondas)

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I believe there is evidence to suggest that a 996 C4S will in some instances outbrake a turbo by virtue of it's identical brakes but slightly lighter weight!
Either way, i've never ever come accross a car that will loose speed quite as effectively as a 911...in any of the latter guises.
They have braking performance that few will ever really test on the road.
 
I never realised there was much in the weight difference, i guess depends on spec. and can see how the C4S would outstop the Tub if its lighter.

I have a C4S cab now and believe its heavier again, but nice with the hood down.

Do you think the cabs are compromised in handleing Glen c.f. the coupe? The sales guy rekoned they were supposed to be as good but whenever he lied, his lips moved.

TBH I havent found any scuttle shake but the hard top used to creak like mad when it was on.

I guess i still run out of talent before the car so its irrelevant for me.
 
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http://www.audi-sport.net/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=369025&an=0&page=0#369025

thought so... like Al's comments on this thread /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

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You are welcome David.

There's a cracking looking 993 C2, in a light blue-silver metallic, where I am currently working (knutsford, Cheshire)... the owner looks to have put 18/19's on it and possibly lowered it, as the wheels fit the arches perfectly. It makes me think again about getting one. Looks wise, its probably the best looking Porsche 911 IMO, as its got the smooth shape, and looks smaller than 996's & 997's. Although I woundn't refuse any of them!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

But as was said in the linked thread above, perhaps not a daily driver car. But clearly, someone going to Knutsford is using it every day.

AL
 
Interesting points about servicing, costs and reliability..oh and warranty renewal.

Makes me think again.

Been toying with the idea of getting rid of the S3, but just do not know what to get, plus the other half has input too - so its going to be a compromised heart vs head decision.

AL
 
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I never realised there was much in the weight difference, i guess depends on spec. and can see how the C4S would outstop the Tub if its lighter.


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Best part of 100Kgs from memory...


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I have a C4S cab now and believe its heavier again, but nice with the hood down.


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Oh Clifford? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif


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Do you think the cabs are compromised in handleing Glen c.f. the coupe? The sales guy rekoned they were supposed to be as good but whenever he lied, his lips moved.


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Yes they are compromised...they have to be. The shell is bendy...or if you strengthen it enough to stop it bending, you make it heavier. compromesed either way.


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TBH I havent found any scuttle shake but the hard top used to creak like mad when it was on.

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does it not creak when parked outside the local wine bar? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif


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I guess i still run out of talent before the car so its irrelevant for me.

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Boo!
That's a poor attitude...
I believe i'm gradually getting to the limits of mine...frightens the life out of me though!
 
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Looks wise, its probably the best looking Porsche 911 IMO, as its got the smooth shape, and looks smaller than 996's & 997's. Although I woundn't refuse any of them!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


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They are much smaller than the later cars...David's looks like a bit dropped off mine!

Especially inside...much smaller.

But the same weight...

993s are very pretty cars...I personally prefer the wide body...but the standard body is growing on me as I spend more time appreciating David's fine machine.
 
Lets get to the point who wins david(993 c4s) vs glen (996 c4s)?

What would you guys pay for a decent 993? 30k?
 
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Lets get to the point who wins david(993 c4s) vs glen (996 c4s)?


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There is no winner...
Battles are traded either way, dependant on road surface, corner type and midset of the helmsman.
There is no clear advantage...

Despite mine having more power, better suspension, bigger brakes and PSM...the 993 is still able to match it on the road...
Which shows how right Porsche got the 993...


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What would you guys pay for a decent 993? 30k?

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That would get you a very late C2 / C4 with full history and low miles...or a slightly higher milage C4S...
Maybe even an early, slightly more 'used' turbo...but I'd be wary of a turbo at that price.

You'd end up with a lovely example for 30k that's for sure.
 
£30k-£40k which porsche would you choose?
 
So it appears that a 993 is a fairly safe acquisition.
It does reflect in the prices. In some cases it's cheaper to buy a 996 3.4 than a good 993. And this is the reason.

it's interesting about the offset pedals. I'm sure it's something you can get use to after a while.
 
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i've never ever come accross a car that will loose speed quite as effectively as a 911...

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I have a 965 Turbo and S3. A couple of years ago a toddler ran into the road about a car length in front of me. I was travelling at 30 mph jumped on the brake and couldn't believe I stopped just before hitting him. If I had been in the S3 or any other car the kid would have been hit and probably killed.
 
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£30k-£40k which porsche would you choose?

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For £30K I think it would be down to 2...
Either a nice spec Boxster S (fine if you like convertibles, are a good looking bloke and have the weather!)

Or a really nice, low milage 993 C4S.

You could have your choice of C2, C4 or even C2S...nut personally, I'd be looking for a C4S.

You would also get an early 996...but the early ones with the slightly smaller engine, earlier style lights and nastier interior wouldn't get my vote...I think I'd opt for a late 993.


By £40k you increase the choice considerably as you are into nice 996 territory...good specs, models and colours.

Or exotic 993, 964 etc...

Examples (click here!)

I think it's more important to find the right car than set the budget...you may find a car you like at less then you thought if you happen to fall for a less disirable colour combination...or you may finda car that you *must* own and blow your budget completely. Like me. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
 
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So it appears that a 993 is a fairly safe acquisition.


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I would suggest so...


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It does reflect in the prices. In some cases it's cheaper to buy a 996 3.4 than a good 993. And this is the reason.


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Indeed...and even as a 996 fan, I struggle to say I'd ever pick an early 996 over a late, correct model, 993.
The early 996s were not as good a car as the later cars, in my view.
Still great to own...but just not as complete.

The 996 just got better with age...better interior, better spec, better models, better looking, more power, better brakes etc...
 
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£30k-£40k which porsche would you choose?

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I would second Glen's comments on this one.

That kind of money buys a lovely low mileage 993 with some change to spare for possible maintainence items.

It would also include newish boxsters (if that's what you like) - and I guess very soon some low spec caymans - the Cayman has got to be a good choice in the bracket - excluding the mystery over residuals.

Howver, the residuals on Boxsters are pretty poor (by Porsche standards) and you would ultimately pay more for a more common car that is less likely to become a classic.

With regards to 996, the mkII 996 is a must, the 3.4 cars are fragile, tempramental and uninspiring to drive.

A guy on a local forum spent 43k on a 996 C2 with GT3 aeropack and sports exhaust - it's a fine, fine car. Again though, the residuals are not as solid as the 993 and with 997s appearing in the high 50s the market for the 3.6 996s has got to be rocky.

I'm not usually too fussed about residuals and I have experienced a taking down of trousers with several previous cars - but there does seem to be an undertone of finacial prudance on the thread - so there's my thoughts.

993 RS....
 
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Lets get to the point who wins david(993 c4s) vs glen (996 c4s)?

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In follow up to Glen's (unusually) balanced view on this one it is safe to say that the Yellow bewinged machine win's the bling / posing war! However, on the road they are surprisingly close.

The 996 will pull a few car lengths from low revs - i.e. both cars setting off in 2nd from tickover - but top end there is very little difference.

Glen will pull time on me on some roads and I will pull time on others - generally though we will arrive at the same place at the same time without anyone backing off.

I think that the 993 is more supple and that counts on Scottish back roads. I'd guess that if I took the 996 and 993 to the ring on the same day I'd be quicker in the 996 though...

Guess the answer depends on what you classify as winning!

The winner for me is the silly grins adorning both drivers faces at "point B"

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

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What would you guys pay for a decent 993? 30k?

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Narrow body, varioram with 50k miles - between 26k and 30k

Wide body S/ 4S 32k-35k depending on spec / condiiton.
 
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993 RS....

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I considered that...but currently good ones are nearer £50K...certainly in the 40s.

And would this become another 'ornament' car? Where owners are scared to drive them because they are so valuable?
Possibly...

When you get up towards £50K and mentioning 993 RS I'd be goung hunting for a GT3...less rare therefore parts are more available should you do the unthikable.
 

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Nice choice!
Lovely car...any details?

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The 965 was only made in 93 so that’s how old it is. I bought it 8 years ago with 35k on the clock and it now has done 85k its lhd in black and pretty much as standard apart from wastegate spring and diverter valve. Never been able to find how many were made exactly but I think it was around a 1000 with 50 being rhd so its a tough model to find.
 
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The 965 was only made in 93 so that’s how old it is. I bought it 8 years ago with 35k on the clock and it now has done 85k its lhd in black and pretty much as standard apart from wastegate spring and diverter valve.


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Sounds very nice... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ok.gif


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Never been able to find how many were made exactly but I think it was around a 1000 with 50 being rhd so its a tough model to find.

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Have you tried the Porsche Club GB? They may be able to shed some light on production numbers?
 
Guys ,what about the 993 turbo,was featured in evo's all time 10 top drivers cars .You can pick them up for 30-45k.What do you think of them?
 
The turbo (whether it be 930, 964, 993 or 996) is a blunt instrument. It distracts from the subtle handling and turns the car into a straight line single trick hero.

The NA are definately the better packages.
 
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