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Thread: 210 bhp S3 vs. EP3 civic type R??

  1. #1
    willh92's Avatar
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    210 bhp S3 vs. EP3 civic type R??

    Anyone had a race in a 210bhp S3 against an EP3 civic type R?

    Cos i've agreed to race my mate at some point over the festive period and i'm feeling pretty confident even though IMO they're both pretty well matched cars. All the power of the civic is in the top 2k of its rev range by that time the S3 should be gone especially with the good start quattro gives you! no?
    S3 - APY silver

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  3. #2
    gabin's Avatar
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    Hate to disappoint you mate, but when it comes to a drag race, the EP3 is better.
    It's lighter, same horse-power, not that much torque as we have, but after 6.000RPM when the VTEC kicks in, he's gonna blast you. Not to mention his shifter that will help achieving a better time on a 1/4 mile race than a S3.

    Altough, keep us posted, in the end the driver matters the most!

  4. #3
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    also, try not to kill yourselves eh?
    voorhees, s3dave, Alex C and 1 others like this.

  5. #4
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    Just remap your S3, don't tell your mate, and teach him a lesson!
    s3dave, slowcoach3, AVLO and 4 others like this.



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    AVLO's Avatar
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    As said above by jojo just a stage 1 remap will up power and torque then he/she will not have a chance. This has been quite a debatable point at my neck of the woods just recently as one of my friends is a jap fan through and through. We keep having banter and he tries to tell me his ep3 is faster than my s3 but he doesn't seem to want to race?

    Matt
    BRING ON THE WET WEATHER ​QUATTRO FTW

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    I've had a tickle with a S2000. He was definitely gunning it, by the sound of the exhaust.
    In the end he had to pull into the inside lane as he couldn't shake me off his rear bumper.
    Then went past him, and gave me the thumbs up.
    Btw, mine is a stage 1 APY.
    AVLO likes this.
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    Stock Vs stock there will be sod all in it. It will come down to driver ability

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    It doesn't matter if he wins, he still has to drive a Honda. Maybe you should let him win

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    It will be Close but i bet your mate wins. Keep us posted and dont die finding out!

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    I might have to remove some seats to shed weight then!
    S3 - APY silver

  12. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by willh92 View Post
    Anyone had a race in a 210bhp S3 against an EP3 civic type R?
    Yes, I've had a few and it's very evenly matched with stock versus stock in a straight line.

    However, come across a few corners and some damp conditions and you can wave goodbye to them...I've left a Muggen Type-R Civic 1/20 before which was very enjoyable (car was running stage 1)
    2000 S3 APY

    18" BBS RSII with Michelin PS3s, 20mm H&R adapters, Relentless 3" DP and Sports cat, B5 V1 induction kit, cone filter+heat shield, Forge 007P, Awesome GTI SMF, AP coilovers, Facelift rear lights, Full Powerflex poly bush kit, R32 Rear ARB, SAI delete, N249 by-pass, Upgraded Engine mounts with Polytek, Stage 1 CC at Badger 5.

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    My mapped a3 1.8t aum used to pull away from a ep3! There was nothing in it to 80mph but after that.... Bye bye!

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    Quote Originally Posted by AVLO View Post
    As said above by jojo just a stage 1 remap will up power and torque then he/she will not have a chance. This has been quite a debatable point at my neck of the woods just recently as one of my friends is a jap fan through and through. We keep having banter and he tries to tell me his ep3 is faster than my s3 but he doesn't seem to want to race?

    Matt
    A bit of banter?
    The other night on facebook it was about a 2 hour battle lol
    Ive had a play with Civics of all kinds of set ups with mine in various states of tune.
    Long and short of it is... on paper your going into battle with damp powder, Best hope he is one of the many people who cant exploit the vtec
    AVLO likes this.
    Noggy Blue 2001 S3

    I ask questions because i change my mind so much. If i ask questions you have already covered... just leave it be?

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    some of those Vtec Hoes are quick little cars.....

    oh, and be careful if it isn't on a private closed racecourse ;-)

  16. #15
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    Well my fingers are crossed, I'll be making sure my fuel tank is nearly empty to save weight and hopefully he has someone in his car! I'll keep you all posted!
    S3 - APY silver

  17. #16
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    Which quarter mile strip are you racing him at ?
    kwistof, MBK and chaz20vt like this.

  18. #17
    MBK
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    I've owned an EP3 CTR in the past and have quite a bit of experience in the S2000 and FN2 CTR on road and track. I'd say there wouldn't be much in it in a straight line. As long as you can keep the CTR in the VTEC zone and don't fluff the gear changes they are quick enough. You should have a huge advantage if the tarmac is wet though.

    You could both have a huge amount of safe fun if you booked a track day too. These airfield type days only cost about £90-120 for the day and you can tear around to your hearts content, you get to see who's quicker in the corners then too.

    The EP3 CTR in this video at 6.06 was a well sorted car running on coil over suspension and with upgraded Brembo brakes but was still no match for the track champion Megane R26.R, in this clip the CTR is being driven by one of the instructors. Oh and if you want a chuckle watch the Aston at the start, he arrived late and missed the track briefing...



    It's not quite S3 v CTR but this isn't too far away. S2000 v TT quattro Sport both with 237bhp but the S2000 had just 153lb ft torque vs the TTs 236 lb ft but then you also have to factor in weight which sees the S2000 with 191bhp/ton and the TT with 171bhp/ton. You can see the impact of the lack of torque in the S2000 at 1.08 and 2.20 exiting Brooklands Hairpin - the TT pulls away easily because in the S2000 there was no way to stay in the Vtec zone through that bend. The S2000 makes up that advantage by the next corner though and could carry more speed through the kink at Woodlands - that's the disadvantage of all the extra weight and drag of quattro. Ultimately the S2000 could carry more speed through Honda Curve and that meant better speed on Park Straight. The S2000 was a good 2 seconds a lap faster than the TT in my hands anyway. There is also some footage running with my Mrs FN2 CTR (the EP3 CTR is just a fraction quicker imo), the S2000 was quite a bit quicker than that too.



    Track days are a great way to enjoy your car and if you've got a video camera handy you can keep the memories too.

  19. #18
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    Who do you think you are...coming over here, spouting facts, personal experiences and real life video footage of said cars haha

    In all seriousness, that's a well balanced and informative post and yes, I did have a chuckle at the Aston Martin driver near the start....all the gear and no idea comes to mind :D
    MBK and vivalacoulter like this.
    2000 S3 APY

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  20. #19
    willh92's Avatar
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    Which quarter mile strip are you racing him at ?
    I actually live 5 mins away from Santa Pod and used to work there so get free track time. Having said that they are closed until 18th January (Paul Walker memorial event - maybe some on here will be going!?) so I don't know. Might wait til then to do it properly. Don't fancy losing my license / life around Xmas! Lol.
    voorhees likes this.
    S3 - APY silver

  21. #20
    MBK
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    Thank you kwistof, I shall return to Really Secure 3 wing for my daily medication shortly!

    I quite offended one of my mates Tom who's an instructor for them. He'd been out giving the chap in the Aston some much needed lessons. After the second time I caught the and passed the Aston I saw him back in the paddock and said "wow you are working wonders today, he was almost half decent on those second set of laps." Tom just stared at me and said "I was driving the Aston on those laps" awkward... as the kids say. I did say something about how his great instruction had helped me get much faster but he was still none too impressed racing drivers really don't like customers to be faster!!

  22. #21
    S3 Paul's Avatar
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    I loved watching the mk2 golf part,
    Seemed to pull well and corner very flat,
    MBK likes this.
    Noggy Blue 2001 S3

    I ask questions because i change my mind so much. If i ask questions you have already covered... just leave it be?

  23. #22
    MBK
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    Yes that Golf was a proper stripped out and coil over equipped race machine and well driven, you'll see he gets into and catches quite a nice neutral slide in the rear view shot at 8.56ish trying to follow me through that corner. Proof you can have a lot of fun without a huge budget on track days. Older Golfs and Clios make great fun track machines and can surprise the unsuspecting.

  24. #23
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    I have a mk2 myself as weekend toy... i hope to track it more next year
    Noggy Blue 2001 S3

    I ask questions because i change my mind so much. If i ask questions you have already covered... just leave it be?

  25. #24
    MBK
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    Great that's the way, I think the track is a just the best way to learn some extra driving skills and most of all have a massive amount of fun whatever you're driving. It's much safer than the road too.

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    S2000 not that fast, raced one as Santa Pod in my 1.9 TDI diesel Passat.
    I take pictures of the intended victims so heres what his whale tail rear wing looked like.



    And the old man in the diesel estate disappearing into the distance. click on the picture to play the video.



    He was a little shocked I beat him .
    It was a very windy day about 20-30mph and we were driving into it which didn't help the times. Quickest I ran in the Passat was 14.95 93mph.

    karl.
    Karls 312bhp A4 3.0 TDI build thread http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/audi-s4...ld-thread.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by willh92 View Post
    Anyone had a race in a 210bhp S3 against an EP3 civic type R?

    Cos i've agreed to race my mate at some point over the festive period and i'm feeling pretty confident even though IMO they're both pretty well matched cars. All the power of the civic is in the top 2k of its rev range by that time the S3 should be gone especially with the good start quattro gives you! no?
    Well I've only run in with two and Ihad a 210apy standard (now oettinger mapped stage 1), and have pulled from one and had to slow down from smashing in the back of the other, both times the same stretch of road up to 60/70. I've only driven a standard type r but it doesn't matter how good a driver you are you struggle to break 7 secs fwd wheel spin is not avoidable if you're going for it! and the s3 if launched propertly is capable of 6.8-6.4, I think in dragoffs in evo and zeperfs who tested both cars will agree the s3 is actually comfortably ahead in 0-60 times. At certain speeds with vtec band and the k04 lag you can get caught out on the move but frankly I'd be amazed if over 5 sprints to 60 you lost 1! To 100mph that's probably equal but on the move the 200ft of torque you have too, and that's worst case most std s3s produce over 200 it won't be any faster either! But drag to 60mph I'd expect you to win 99% of the time if you have the standard turbo intake pipe my tip is change at 6000rpm don't rev it over 6200 you're better changing!

    Good luck let me know when you've kicked his ass and obviously be careful! And like the others have said a remap makes the 8l s3 drive and pull like it should have from factory!

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    Quote Originally Posted by desertstorm View Post
    S2000 not that fast, raced one as Santa Pod in my 1.9 TDI diesel Passat.
    I take pictures of the intended victims so heres what his whale tail rear wing looked like.

    And the old man in the diesel estate disappearing into the distance. click on the picture to play the video.
    He was a little shocked I beat him .
    It was a very windy day about 20-30mph and we were driving into it which didn't help the times. Quickest I ran in the Passat was 14.95 93mph.

    karl.
    What had you done to that passat TDI? Hybrid turbo?

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    BV43 turbo off an Audi A4 170 TDI , custom remap , FMIC, 2.5 inch straight through exhaust with a Milltek straight through silencer.
    207bhp 345 Lb/ft torque. 16 inch Audi A4 wheels and 205/55 tyres helped as well.
    Karls 312bhp A4 3.0 TDI build thread http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/audi-s4...ld-thread.html

  30. #29
    Biggied's Avatar
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    As it happens I owned both the afore mentioned cars back to back.

    Both had basic induction mods only & I did the 1/4 time in both aswell.

    My best in the S3 was a 14.5 1/4 mile, see vid bellow.
    Audi S3 @ Crail - YouTube

    Best I managed in the Civic was 14.8, see vid bellow (excusing the quaility & soundtrack as it was "fresh" at the time lol)
    Civic Type R @ Crail - YouTube

    The only reason the S3 got a better time was the quattro launch from the line, on a rolling start the Civic would have pulled ahead I think so real life dry roads your S3 might struggle with your mates TypeR if he knows how to exploit his power band, if as you said you have a go over the festive period pray for rain lol.

    As a driver just about any of the decent Vtec Hondas are better cars out the box than an 8L S3 although the S3 is a better car all round to live with every day with bags more tuning potential.

    Ewan.
    jojo likes this.
    210hp 8L S3 quattro.

 

 

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