BIG TURBO clutch options, for s3!?!?!?

[limbo118118]

just need some idea of what clutch setups people use on there big turbo cars? mines a s3, hearing alot of mixed reviews on different setups etc etc, car will be 400bhp+ region...

not wanting to spend over 1k for a clutch..

what options is there out there?

heres some iv found searching the net...

• Helix Road Clutch Kit - S3 225bhp/165kw -1999-2004 - S3 (8L) - Audi - Shop By Car
• Stage 3 Kit for Audi S3 Quattro - 1.8i 20v Turbo 4x4 | CG Motorsport
• Solid Mass Flywheel Kit for AUDI A3 (96>2003) 1.8i Turbo 20V, 1.8 Quattro Turbo 20V Engine Code AGU, AQA, ARZ, AUM, ARX | CG Motorsport
• S3 quattro (154 kW ; 03/1999) - S-Performance GmbH

helix? SPEC? competitionclutches? sachs?

 

[adamss24]

I think you have the wrong mindset, you will find that with cheap clutches it often takes 2-3 tries until you get it right so my advice is spend your money wisely and don't go for the cheaper clutch ! I would look at offerings from 034 Motorsport, Southbend and Sachs SRE. Of course you will get clutches from different manufacturers but i had very good experiences with Sachs SRE clutches- they feel like stock and hold whatever you can throw at them !

 

[Andrew@A.L.D]

Nechniclutch i would advise you Google it and read the poor reviews on them

Give Bill@Badger5 a bell and he will sell you a SACH clutch plate, then just use a standard cover.

I run this set up with 500 bhp+ and i will see what its like with 600 soon

 

[limbo118118]

and how does that setup feel? like standard? how long has it been on for?

 

[Andrew@A.L.D]

Feels very standard

Tuffty runs the same set up and he's lasted 20k miles, mine has only done 5k

 

[adamss24]

Just remember that clutches have torque ratings NOT Bhp, most Sachs SRE clutches have in excess of 650Nm which i doubt your s3 will ever do unless at 4000 with a great gt40 blower strapped to it ! Get a up-rated pressure plate at the same time and a organic discs for good measure. Don't be tempted by getting a Sintered/Puk style clutch disc, they are very grabby and a pain to drive on day to day basis !

 

[IrishDave]

^^ I would have to disagree with what you have said. I run the same clutch as both Andrew and Tuffty and can't fault it in any way. I use the car as a daily drive and the clutch is as close to stock as you could imagine having had cars with uprated clutches that were a pia to drive.

 

[<tuffty/>]

^^ I would have to disagree with what you have said. I run the same clutch as both Andrew and Tuffty and can't fault it in any way. I use the car as a daily drive and the clutch is as close to stock as you could imagine having had cars with uprated clutches that were a pia to drive.

What he said...

LuK DMF, LuK pressure plate and Sachs 4 puck paddle works lovely... mine did last 20k, prob would have gone on for another 5k but I have abused it and as I have said on almost every clutch thread that pops up (and there are quite few of these) clutch wear is hugely subjective...

Biggest expense on a clutch for these cars is paying someone to do it... if your DMF and pressure plate are ok you can potentially get away with sticking a new Sachs paddle in and bingo, uprated clutch...

I am just going to buy a new plate as mine is pretty much end of life but the DMF and pressure plate are fine...

<tuffty/>

 

[Prawn]

same thoughts here Re paddle clutches, it's pressure plates that make them heavy and grabby, a decent paddle drive plate under the right pressure plate will hold epic torque and not be grabby or give a heavy pedal at all.

 

[kwistof]

Haven't read any bad reviews about C.G Motorsport really and from what I've heard they know there stuff and can talk you through different options over the phone.

I have done since the start of this year and had no issues with the clutch itself other than my gearbox failing mainly due to changing from a DMF to SMF along with my high mileage of 185k it just couldn't take it. (Something you may want to take into consideration if you have a lot of mileage on your gearbox, say 150k+ and changing to a SMF)

 

[adamss24]

What he said...

LuK DMF, LuK pressure plate and Sachs 4 puck paddle works lovely... mine did last 20k, prob would have gone on for another 5k but I have abused it and as I have said on almost every clutch thread that pops up (and there are quite few of these) clutch wear is hugely subjective...

Biggest expense on a clutch for these cars is paying someone to do it... if your DMF and pressure plate are ok you can potentially get away with sticking a new Sachs paddle in and bingo, uprated clutch...

I am just going to buy a new plate as mine is pretty much end of life but the DMF and pressure plate are fine...

<tuffty/>

Guys, i have driven loads of cars in my time with either uprated clutches or stock ! I did not drive yours but any upgraded clutch will be much more grabbier than factory clutch. 4 puck/sintered clutches are very very grabby, i have tried either feramic, carbon/kevlar or organic and they are a pita to drive in traffic, either On or Off- nothing in between ! As i said, it's a matter of personal taste, what i do like and what you find pleasurable is relative ! Glad that stock PP works well for you, it's usually the PP that needs to be upgraded in order for the clutch not to slip ! 500Nm at 2000rpm's are much, much harder on the clutch than 500nm at 4000rpm's !

 

[Prawn]

Your lucky. There don't have good reviews at all but if it works for you then that great?

I'm well aware of the scary rep mate, you're dead right!

For me, it was teh cost of the clutch and diff that stopped my going 6 speed for several years, the clutch and SMF kit came up cheap, as did a second hand box with a diff, so it seemed like a gamble worth taking.

2000 miles and 2 trackdays so far and it's holding up OK, but god knows what it'll be like long term.

Having done the swap now though, if the clutch does go it's only a single component to replace rather than the full conversion lot I had to sink in 1 hit before, so I'll cope

 

[Prawn]

Guys, i have driven loads of cars in my time with either uprated clutches or stock ! I did not drive yours but any upgraded clutch will be much more grabbier than factory clutch. 4 puck/sintered clutches are very very grabby,

I think the stock PP works well due to the reduced friction area on a paddle clutch. Pressure = force / area as we know, so the same pressure plate can put considerably more pressure onto the pucks of a paddle clutch than it can apply over a full surface disc,it also retains the stock pedal feel being a stock part.

Engagement may well be more grabby than stock, but it's certainly not noticable or annoying to drive at all.

 

[Sam_]

I've been looking at the same thing myself. I wonder how well the OEM/Sachs plate setup with take with a proper launch though? I'd hate to get my engine back together and realise that I can't fully utilise it? I've had my eye on a few setups, Clutchmasters do some nice setups (FX400/725/850) and also Sachs Racing and Loba have some nice offerings.

 

[Sam_]

Some more info here:
http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/a3-s3-...53-sachs-paddle-clutch-plate.html#post1983326

 

[adamss24]

I think the stock PP works well due to the reduced friction area on a paddle clutch. Pressure = force / area as we know, so the same pressure plate can put considerably more pressure onto the pucks of a paddle clutch than it can apply over a full surface disc,it also retains the stock pedal feel being a stock part.

Engagement may well be more grabby than stock, but it's certainly not noticeable or annoying to drive at all.

That's the whole point, i have a LUK DMF and Sachs SRE/Loba rs4 clutch on my v6 tdi (300Bhp/700Nm conservative), the hub is sprung and the clutch plate is organic. The pressure plate is upgraded- yes- it's grabby on take off but smooth after that and progressive as well, however, on my old 1.9Tdi i had a billet SMF, a Southbend Ferametalic Clutch (full face) and up-rated Sachs PP, that was a pain to drive even after bedding it for 1000 miles. The gearbox broke the syncros due to vibrations 3000 miles later so cannot tell how it fared long term !
What i would want is a DMF from the later b8 v6 tdi, they can take 600Nm all day long without complaining, then add a Sachs SRE clutch and you all set ! Unfortunately the bolt pattern is different so not as easy to convert !

 

[Jason.s]

My ex had an FX400 on her 340bhp Celica GT4. Launched all day long at 6k. Perfectly fine to drive daily in mixed traffic

 

[Sam_]

Yeah I've heard very good reports. Seems to be about $1400 though.

I did consider this:
S3 Quattro 165KW / 224PS ( BAM ) Bj.10/2001- : Sachs Performance / Race Kupplung clutch kit 000827.001490
+
Flywheel, Aluminum, Lightweight, 02M 6-Speed 1.8T - 034Motorsport | Performance Parts for Audi, Porsche, and Volkswagen

But I've rather go for a billet steel flywheel and that clutch plate is unsprung so it would be like a switch. I'll see when I have the cash and stop blowing it on other stuff

 

[<tuffty/>]

I went for my setup based on reports from a guy who used it on his 500+hp nitrous enhanced mk1 TT... he used to spend his life at drag strips and said it always served him well... its also the same clutch MTM have used on big turbo upgrades...

Any clutch/drivetrain etc will suffer under a full launch regardless of power.. the setup I have deals with it and I have done a fair few launches but you still have to remember that this type of abuse (and lets be realistic here, it is actual abuse) will shorten the lifespan of any clutch...

...and this I think is something that people get mixed up on... ability vs lifespan... lifespan of any component that is subjected to 'hard' use no matter how much you try to 'upgrade' stuff will reduce drastically over most peoples experience and expectations...

My paddle plate is pretty much end of life but it can still handle launches etc as unlike an organic friction material the cerametallic material retains its ability to 'grip' long after an organic plate would give up the ghost however cerametallic material will wear more quickly under normal use and I mean hill starts, slow moving traffic etc... all the situations that a daily driver may face...

Realistically my setup should see 20-30k between plates and double that for DMF/pressure plate based on how I use my car... if you are tracking the car or using it on the strip with any regularity then this would drop... potentially quite substantially...

<tuffty/>

 

[Sam_]

Sounds like it might be worth getting two plates at once then

Hmm. I'll have to get some quotes for the parts then. Probably worth a shot if I get the OEM DMF and cover cheap enough.