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Thread: BBT 7+7/Tfsi turbine S3 Results from the weekend

  1. #1
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    BBT 7+7/Tfsi turbine S3 Results from the weekend

    We had a Customer S3 in Saturday for mapping his S3 with BBT K04 hybrid on.
    It made some great numbers... 345bhp/303(352)lbft




    Dans BBT k04 hybrid, relentless v3 (ported by owner), rods, wmi, 3" downpipe, 80mm TIP, 550cc injectors, Welly cooler. Very well presented car. Leak free !

    Lower plot is the lowest map 5 boost setting.. 5 x boost maps.. Anti Lag boost build launch, no lift shift etc..

    Rapid S3 up in Chesterfield. Watch out..
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  3. #2
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    Good work guys

    Dan your on with a winner with that turbo mate
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    Adjustable FPR from 1-5 bar, 2 sets of Unused ARP 3/8 2000 rod bolts, relentless 200 cell cat pipe, Std AGU Crankshaft. Ported & Reconditioned Cylinder head service.

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    Nice power! 7.5k+ ok for standard valve train?
    Silver 2002 Audi S3 225 (BAM) since March 2011.

    Mods: Badger5 2.2 TIP, Jetex filter, PCV delete, 710 DV, Standard N249 in use, R-Tech Stage 1 TiV Remap, Audi TT Pedals, Red Dogbone, Polybushed tie arms. All silicone boost pipes, Michelin PS3s, Red V6 coil packs, MK4 flat blade conversion, retrofited cruise control.
    Currently: 254bhp - 276lb/ft (174bhp/ton) as of 11/02/2013 On V-Power

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vex182 View Post
    Nice power! 7.5k+ ok for standard valve train?
    hell yeh
    AVLO likes this.

  6. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vex182 View Post
    Nice power! 7.5k+ ok for standard valve train?
    7800rpm is my personal max for std valve train.
    depending on if huffer has any guts up top to make use of it or not
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    That looks like that'll be a very lively car with loads of low down punch and still holds really well up top

    Dan has really come up with a lovely turbo

    Think it would be a perfect upgrade for the silver fox
    Prawn likes this.
    Power & Torque 335bhp 285ftlb
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    an interesting to me comparison of two different framed k04's on two different capacity engines, but close spec turbos internally...
    the S3 of the weekend with dans BBT k04 hybrid next to my leon cupra tfsi k04.. (stage 2+ revo)
    Stroker on the tfsi gets more torque earlier but thats stroker crank for you, but the 1.8t hybrid does a damned good job of matching the tfsi k04 pretty much everywhere else..

    1.8t hybrid is working harder boost wise to match the power, but logged egt's vs tfsi's modelled egt's the 1.8t motor is some 80-100'c less temps despite the additional boost. WMI on both cars also.. 1.8t taking loads of ign advance where tfsi just dont.

    pale blue is BBT hybrid on S3



    StaceyS3 and burns3 like this.
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  9. #8
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    Wow, that really is incredibly similar isn't it!

    Love the way they both hold torque so flat!
    Goubo1 and Vex182 like this.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Prawns TFSI Turbo'd 1.8T Track Car

    But I know nothing so ignore me.

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    Ahh if only I didn't have the issues with my car on the day maybe I could have ended up with results similar ish to this I would have been very happy. OH well.
    Great results anyway there Bill. Bet the customer was more than happy.
    B5 v1 Tip, B5 Exhaust Manifold, Beach Buggy Hybrid, Pipewerx D.P and cat bypass, Miltek resonated cat back, AH Fabs v2 Intercooler, S2000 Filter, 83mm 9.5:1 CP Pistons, Brute Rods, Bosch 550cc Injectors, Oil Catch can, N249 delete, B5 Phenolic Gasket, Devils Own Water Meth Kit, Forge baffled sump.
    H&R Springs, Koni FSD Shocks, s3dave's rear tie bars, R32 ARB's, LCR Brembo's, 18" ttrs alloys, replaced all suspension bushes, 15/20mm spacers front/rear, Vibratechnics Engine Mounts.

  11. #10
    RIP S3dave

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    Quote Originally Posted by IrishDave View Post
    Ahh if only I didn't have the issues with my car on the day maybe I could have ended up with results similar ish to this I would have been very happy. OH well.
    Great results anyway there Bill. Bet the customer was more than happy.
    he's happy yes
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    So is this a new hybrid from bbt or his usual one and you sharing the results. I remember reading bbt saying he had something in the pipeline for a new k04 hybrid. how does it feel on the road compared to a descent stage 2 car bill. Great work and results. Daz

  13. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by daz-20vt View Post
    So is this a new hybrid from bbt or his usual one and you sharing the results. I remember reading bbt saying he had something in the pipeline for a new k04 hybrid. how does it feel on the road compared to a descent stage 2 car bill. Great work and results. Daz
    you need to check with Dan on what this spec is..... he has done many different versions now..
    This was to be best of my knowledge a 7+7 billet comp wheel with K04-064 turbine wheel, clearanced and 1bar actuator, ported hotside. Dan can correct me if I missed anything
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    You are correct Bill. It's the evolution of the original hybrids (rs6 turbine and 2283 compressor)
    TfSI turbine is the same size as the rs6 but full back. Non clipped but clearance housing. 2283 sized wheel but 7+7 blades. I believe this is the key to no surge.

    The only other one was the super hybrid which was the same but runs the k16 turbine, I've yet to see concrete data it's any better or worse than this version , but my main aim was always to produce a non surging hybrid.. This fits that requirement and will remain the hybrid available it's called the k418t.

    I have other versions but until anything new develops these will be the main stay hybrid.

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    Keep it up Dan, all the testing of different specs seems to be paying off for you lately! Some seriously good results coming from all manner of BBT turbos now
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Prawns TFSI Turbo'd 1.8T Track Car

    But I know nothing so ignore me.

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    Very nice indeed need mine to those standered a lol bloody copy hotside haha if it is that bill I'm coming down lol
    350bhp & 316ftlb BBT new k16 7+7 blade hybrid turbo, Welly cooler, jetex filter, relentless ported v3 manifold 3" downpipe & de-cat, liquid gauge, r32 rear arb, AGU ported and polished Head, 550cc injectors, kw v2 Coilovers, s3dave tie bars & heat sheild, milltek cat back, I.E forged rods, brembos, inline fuel pump, v3 badger 5 tip, devils own WMI kit, AGU pistons, rear grooved discs & brembo pads, ds2500 pads & EBC ultimax disc, stack boost gauge

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    I have k16 be good to see the difference
    350bhp & 316ftlb BBT new k16 7+7 blade hybrid turbo, Welly cooler, jetex filter, relentless ported v3 manifold 3" downpipe & de-cat, liquid gauge, r32 rear arb, AGU ported and polished Head, 550cc injectors, kw v2 Coilovers, s3dave tie bars & heat sheild, milltek cat back, I.E forged rods, brembos, inline fuel pump, v3 badger 5 tip, devils own WMI kit, AGU pistons, rear grooved discs & brembo pads, ds2500 pads & EBC ultimax disc, stack boost gauge

  18. #17
    RIP S3dave

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    bring it down gaz... free dyno to compare them for Dan
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    No surge!! Nice work, That's got to be a good thing!!

    Is the request for 22.5psi reduced at lower RPM or is it ASAP please Mr Turbo Now??

  20. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barks View Post
    No surge!! Nice work, That's got to be a good thing!!

    Is the request for 22.5psi reduced at lower RPM or is it ASAP please Mr Turbo Now??
    Its doing as its being told to do...... and its not how you think or do yours

    in my experience of doing many hybrids now, shove them too hard early on, you get a slug of torque yes, but loose sustained torque up the revs so compromises overall power.

    This one took 22psi without a hint of surge.. Previous spec units could surge at 18psi and would only accept more boost after 4200rpm or more.
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    What was the max level of boost you requested.
    B5 v1 Tip, B5 Exhaust Manifold, Beach Buggy Hybrid, Pipewerx D.P and cat bypass, Miltek resonated cat back, AH Fabs v2 Intercooler, S2000 Filter, 83mm 9.5:1 CP Pistons, Brute Rods, Bosch 550cc Injectors, Oil Catch can, N249 delete, B5 Phenolic Gasket, Devils Own Water Meth Kit, Forge baffled sump.
    H&R Springs, Koni FSD Shocks, s3dave's rear tie bars, R32 ARB's, LCR Brembo's, 18" ttrs alloys, replaced all suspension bushes, 15/20mm spacers front/rear, Vibratechnics Engine Mounts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by badger5 View Post
    bring it down gaz... free dyno to compare them for Dan
    might just do that bill when I have the time ill ring u and sort a date out
    350bhp & 316ftlb BBT new k16 7+7 blade hybrid turbo, Welly cooler, jetex filter, relentless ported v3 manifold 3" downpipe & de-cat, liquid gauge, r32 rear arb, AGU ported and polished Head, 550cc injectors, kw v2 Coilovers, s3dave tie bars & heat sheild, milltek cat back, I.E forged rods, brembos, inline fuel pump, v3 badger 5 tip, devils own WMI kit, AGU pistons, rear grooved discs & brembo pads, ds2500 pads & EBC ultimax disc, stack boost gauge

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    So you have changed the way you do the mapping now with it looks like great success, nice one!

  24. #23
    RIP S3dave

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    My mapping has indeed evolved these past few years with decent software tools, live real time emulator and a lot more experience.
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  25. #24
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    Boost plot is shown on the dyno graphs Dave
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    Cracking stuff Bill, Dan has been especially busy, Just seen a photo of his k418t on his website, it's a beast!!

  27. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by badger5 View Post
    7800rpm is my personal max for std valve train.
    depending on if huffer has any guts up top to make use of it or not
    That's alright then, I used to worry about mine as I think Niki limited it to 7,200 as of course no reason to go higher.
    Silver 2002 Audi S3 225 (BAM) since March 2011.

    Mods: Badger5 2.2 TIP, Jetex filter, PCV delete, 710 DV, Standard N249 in use, R-Tech Stage 1 TiV Remap, Audi TT Pedals, Red Dogbone, Polybushed tie arms. All silicone boost pipes, Michelin PS3s, Red V6 coil packs, MK4 flat blade conversion, retrofited cruise control.
    Currently: 254bhp - 276lb/ft (174bhp/ton) as of 11/02/2013 On V-Power

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    Quote Originally Posted by badger5:2005613
    Boost plot is shown on the dyno graphs Dave
    Nearly a whole 1000rpm earlier than the traditional hybrid, bet it goes well, was a road test required?

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    Quote Originally Posted by badger5 View Post
    Boost plot is shown on the dyno graphs Dave
    Ah yeah sometimes I guess I just have to open my eyes.
    B5 v1 Tip, B5 Exhaust Manifold, Beach Buggy Hybrid, Pipewerx D.P and cat bypass, Miltek resonated cat back, AH Fabs v2 Intercooler, S2000 Filter, 83mm 9.5:1 CP Pistons, Brute Rods, Bosch 550cc Injectors, Oil Catch can, N249 delete, B5 Phenolic Gasket, Devils Own Water Meth Kit, Forge baffled sump.
    H&R Springs, Koni FSD Shocks, s3dave's rear tie bars, R32 ARB's, LCR Brembo's, 18" ttrs alloys, replaced all suspension bushes, 15/20mm spacers front/rear, Vibratechnics Engine Mounts.

  30. #29
    Gops's Avatar
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    Lovely results there bill! Could only wish that mine would respond so well one day!
    Quote Originally Posted by <tuffty/> View Post
    its either mapped or broken...

  31. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barks View Post
    Cracking stuff Bill, Dan has been especially busy, Just seen a photo of his k418t on his website, it's a beast!!
    hmmm yea... the picture i saw is his mutant GT35 comp thing... which is'nt what the k418t looks like
    **http://www.facebook.com/Badger5Ltd**

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    Out of curiosity do you know whether the car was decatted or not and if it was a 3inch turbo back zorst.

  33. #32
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    decat and 3" downpipe into I think 2.75" exhaust
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  34. #33
    S3 Paul's Avatar
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    I would love to speak to the owner,
    I live up that way and would love to see how far off mine is
    Noggy Blue 2001 S3

    I ask questions because i change my mind so much. If i ask questions you have already covered... just leave it be?

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    Dan can you confirm the cracking pressure of wastegate spring used in this hybrid please. 12 or 15psi.

  36. #35
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    It's meant to be 12 but it's probably closer to 10-11

  37. #36
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    Very good work...
    The car must be fast.
    Can You Tell the Egt

  38. #37
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    Bill did you by any chance made a run without the wmi? I run a similar spec car but not wmi and my car will be on Dyno soon.
    How much should we set the drivetrain loss % to?
    Audi S3 AMK
    Relentless-Manifold, Relentless-3" downpipe decat, Forge 007 DV, autobahn88 TIP, K&N Panel filter, EBC yellowstuff brake pads, R32 ARB, Custom column dual gauge pod...waiting for a remap!

    For help/info/pricing on xs manifold and downpipe pm me (not affiliated, nor a reseller trader, just an enthusiast!)

  39. #38
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    No I did'nt run without wmi.. power would have been significantly less without wmi and the timing window it provided

    There is no fixed % for drivetrain losses.
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