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Thread: BAM S3 full rebuild for Hybrid or BT

  1. #1
    hoffmanvp3's Avatar
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    BAM S3 full rebuild for Hybrid or BT

    Hello Guys n Gals

    just thought id share that im doing a full re-build on my much loved S3.
    Shes done over 115K and shes using a bit of oil, even on the 5W40 stuff so thought now is the time as i want more power and need to do the rods before i go any further so i may as well do the whole engine as she already has the Shark Stage 1.

    Now this is where i need some advise as i don't have a ElsaWin yet and i`m stuck in Kuwait off-shore and cant down load one so i`m gonna need some technical service limits on various parts of the block especially clearances of cranks, rods, bore e.t.c

    My head will be getting sent of to some one for remanufactured as i don't have the tools for re cutting, boring e.t.c
    Any suggestions on this one? Port and Polished and heavy duty springs e.t.c

    Currently i haven't started as the engines still in the car and need to get all my ducks in a row before i even pick up a tool.

    First things first, the Block
    I believe its sleeved but can i over bore this or does this need re sleeving? 81mm being the standard bore and 82.5mm is being the next size up? obviously i`ll need to take into account what other components like pistons and head gaskets are available to fit the new re-bore size.

    Rods will be IE 20mm rifle drilled or equivalent with some after markey shells.
    Pistons will be dependent on the condition of the bore, to match re-bore size.
    Piston rings i would assume would come with the piston manufacture?

    What is the stock gearbox good for power wise?
    Clutch? anybody got good experiences with up rated ones?

    Turbo, now this will depend upon what power i want, well right now any thing between 300-400BHP but if this kills the gearbox and Transfer box as i have a Haldex Blue controller on my S3 then i may have to remove and re fit the standard controller to make the torque split more front wheel drive than 4WD.

    Ive mustered up 3K for this project so will probably be going down the Hybrid turbo root as i believe this is cheaper but with reduced power gains?

    The machine is done my brother who full has access to CNC so thatll save me some pennies there.

    As with the modding rule in Motorsport, you make some thing faster the every thing has to be accommodated for.
    so with that being said i believe the Gearbox/Transfer box will be the limiting factor here.

    As always comments and help is always appreciated.

    Cheers

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  3. #2
    superkarl's Avatar
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    Ok, 3k budget, 400ish horsepower, intantly says to me ko4-064 which is the turbo off the newer 2.0tfsi S3.

    Realistically that is the only route you can take whilst trying to remain in yoir budget (i warn you, you will go over!)
    Even with 3k you might have to cut some corners, call in favours, and bargain hunt.

    For that conversion you dont need to really touch the head valvetrain wise, BUT its a wise idea to have new exhaust valve guides and valve stem seals installed. This is the bare minimum, providing the head is ok etc.

    Block wise, its a cast iron block, no sleeves. Stock is 81mm, you can increase in 0.5mm intervals to 83mm.
    With your low budget, you wont be stretching to an overbore with shiny new pistons, its also not needed, and will still make good power as a 1.8.
    Provided your pistons check out ok (piston-wall clearence, no scoring, dents, sharp bits etc) reuse them. Alternatively if you can find a set, fit some from the lower powered 1.8t engine such as the AGU (only one with 20mm wrist pins that im sure of, AEB may be another), these increase the compression ratio by 0.5:1, every little helps.

    With your stock block and oem pistons youl need new rings, these are the likely cause of oil use tbh, and with that you will need to hone the bores out with a honing tool.

    Rods, any rifle drilled rods will suffice, shop around, i dont know where youre based or whats easiest/cheapest. IE are common, strong and quality H beam rods.
    install these with ARP bolts and new big and bearings at a minimum.
    with a rod install means sump and head off, so HG, head bolts, sump sealant, pick up pipe, oil pump, and whatever else the car may need (timing belt etc)

    Turbo, this will be second hand, preferably low miles, can be found on ebay, and they come 1 piece with the exh manifold for around 5-600 quid. To install this you will need:
    Adapter
    TIP
    Downpipe
    Oil and water lines
    Hardware like bolts,nuts,gaskets.
    For more info on this install view Prawns thread and most recent updates.

    Its worth noting the power figures you want (350-400) can be achieved with the stock tfsi ko4 (378 on prawns) for anymore you will need a hybrid of that turbo which will NOT come cheap, but its something you could consider im future for more power (think +50hp)

    To support the turbo you will need if you havent already got:
    Injectors, 550s are probably best, easiest and futureproof to some degree.
    Fmic, all that boost needs some cooling and nice umrestrictive boost system, 63mm+ ideally.
    Exhaust, 3inch downpipe as mentioned, into an aftermarket system of at least 2.75inch.
    Fuel pump, inline if your fuel pump is ok, or if not, both a new intank and an inline.

    And i think that covers things BRIEFLY.
    Check other threads especually prawns for more info.
    The mentioned tfsi ko4 install really does fit the bill for your power/budget goals. Anything bigger or more complex would prpbably add another 1-2k for sure.
    Gops, slowcoach3, Sam_ and 1 others like this.

  4. #3
    hoffmanvp3's Avatar
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    Cheers Superkarl. Top man

    You wouldn't know what torque the stock 6 speed box and transfer is good for?
    Would b a real shame getting all the power accomplished with the engine for tranny to go BOOM!
    im currently sourcing a low milage engine off fle bay to do the work to then just drop it in

  5. #4
    superkarl's Avatar
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    The box and transfer box can take a beating. There is no sort of figure surrounding them where they need to be replaced. Just a strong clutch. Obv with the age of them they are let down by worn Synchros and gears etc.

  6. #5
    "Stick a V8 in it!"

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    Box will be fine at 400hp.

    If your sourcing an engine, its probably an idea to try to get an earlier AGU unit, that way you get the desirable large port head, and the higher compression pistons.

    2000 A4 1.8T Sport Quattro Avant, Berry Pearl
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  7. #6
    <tuffty/>'s Avatar
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    The Audi documentation suggests 250nm for an 02M gearbox but... big turbo AWD peeps run anything up to 400ftlbs through them...

    Obviously its subjective to driving style... launching an AWD with power will break something eventually... if you plan to use the car as a dragster everywhere then you wil get through clutches and boxes regardless...

    Mine is currently living with 330 ish ftlbs and is soon to be subjected to 350ftlbs or more... it will deal with it as long as you don't give it to the box all at once lol...

    Beyond that you are looking at SQS gearsets...

    <tuffty/>
    Silver 2001 AMK S3. Silver alcantara interior... now with added powarrrrrrrr, torques. VAGCOM + KII-USB. >> My build thread...

  8. #7
    hoffmanvp3's Avatar
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    This all excellent info. Cheers guys
    It'll be a fast road car so won't be launching it every where lol.
    Aragon I thought when you went BT you had to lower the compression?
    The big port may be wort looking into as I plan to tune the engine with more
    "flow" than just bolting on a BT and cranking the boost up.
    Cheers

  9. #8
    RIP S3dave

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    you dont "have" to drop Cr to run bigger turbos
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    Quote Originally Posted by <tuffty/> View Post
    The Audi documentation suggests 250nm for an 02M gearbox but... big turbo AWD peeps run anything up to 400ftlbs through them...

    <tuffty/>
    250nm seems low considering the 02M box is used on the higher output TDI models that put out 330nm in standard form.

    My tweaked TDI daily driver has been putting 460nm through an 02M box for the 6 years, eats dual mass flys but the box is ok.

    As said already, get a decent clutch and the box should be fine.

  11. #10
    <tuffty/>'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimS3 View Post
    250nm seems low considering the 02M box is used on the higher output TDI models that put out 330nm in standard form.

    My tweaked TDI daily driver has been putting 460nm through an 02M box for the 6 years, eats dual mass flys but the box is ok.

    As said already, get a decent clutch and the box should be fine.
    Sorry... my bad... just checked again and its 350nm

    http://www.volkspage.net/technik/ssp/ssp/SSP_205.pdf

    <tuffty/>
    Silver 2001 AMK S3. Silver alcantara interior... now with added powarrrrrrrr, torques. VAGCOM + KII-USB. >> My build thread...

  12. #11
    hoffmanvp3's Avatar
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    Thanks again guys.
    Question tho. The exhaust manifold. With the guys on here who've already done the BT what manifold with what Turbo can seat between the bulkhead and head? There tit all room there.
    Guessing under slung turbos work best?
    cheers

  13. #12
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    If your going to do the oem k04-064 then turbo and manifold is a complete unit so will come as one
    Badger 5 tuned 340 bhp / 350 lbft sleeper

  14. #13
    hoffmanvp3's Avatar
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    Ok cheers.
    And so it begins. Been offered a 55,000miles Bam engine incl gearbox for £1k
    Thats a good starting point. Just gotta keep my eyes peeled for parts.
    Many one on here with parts they'd be willing to sell that would suit my needs???
    cheers again chaps

  15. #14
    <tuffty/>'s Avatar
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    You need to read a few of the build threads on here dude... top mount is perfectly doable (as is underslung of course)

    <tuffty/>
    Silver 2001 AMK S3. Silver alcantara interior... now with added powarrrrrrrr, torques. VAGCOM + KII-USB. >> My build thread...

  16. #15
    <tuffty/>'s Avatar
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    Check classifieds for parts... any 'for sale/wanted' type threads will get closed mate

    <tuffty/>
    Silver 2001 AMK S3. Silver alcantara interior... now with added powarrrrrrrr, torques. VAGCOM + KII-USB. >> My build thread...

  17. #16
    hoffmanvp3's Avatar
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    was afraid you'd say that Tuffty lol there's so many of them i don't know which ones to read first.
    Maybe some one could recommend one

  18. #17
    superkarl's Avatar
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    Vwvortex.com is amaxing for classifieds.

    Might even find a BT kit on there.
    Build wise i tgought there was a list in the FAQ's (its been discussed many times i thought someone had realised how good an idea it is)
    Sam_ likes this.

  19. #18
    hoffmanvp3's Avatar
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    Superkarl to the rescue. cheers dude

  20. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by superkarl View Post
    Vwvortex.com is amaxing for classifieds.

    Might even find a BT kit on there.
    Build wise i tgought there was a list in the FAQ's (its been discussed many times i thought someone had realised how good an idea it is)
    I was going to do a list but decided against it for the time being as I had visions of toys exfiltrating prams when a members 'build thread' didn't make the list..

    What I can do is be more specific I guess... members who have done an actual BT build, members who have done an actual hybrid build etc... as long as everyone else realises this is so that people asking about fitting BT's or doing extensive engine modifications to achieve more than the usual stg1/2 rather than the usual 'what bov mate' questions can actually find the info more readily as its quite specific and quite difficult to answer in a single post

    So... to start (in no particular order and because all the threads were on the first page of the section...)

    Prawn and BigAls A3 Track Car
    Stacey's Belated Yo Yo Build Thread
    Audi S3 - Stroker Big Turbo build.
    My minor modding thread
    superkarls overhaul
    W3STY's Progress Thread

    I have left Welly off for now as he has several threads... there is Andrews too but he has several threads and I haven't time to look for them all now

    <tuffty/>
    Silver 2001 AMK S3. Silver alcantara interior... now with added powarrrrrrrr, torques. VAGCOM + KII-USB. >> My build thread...

  21. #20
    hoffmanvp3's Avatar
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    Frekin legend
    Cheers tuffty

    Managed to get my al Skud missile 4x4 back for my run around while i dive into the voyage of mechanical discovery that be my S3 after years of hard work she deserves a bit of botox and growth hormone

  22. #21
    hoffmanvp3's Avatar
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    Well do give you a little taster of whats been done so far





    Purchased a very rare Haldex Blue Controller.
    was needing a lick of paint, then glued it on and changed the units oil and filter for good measure seeing as its gonna be getting more use than normal

  23. #22
    hoffmanvp3's Avatar
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    Next was the Coil wire loom heat shield, this was looking tired so bought a new one, conveniently enough i used the old one as a heat shield for the boost gauges vacuum hose as the heat from the turbo melted the last hose lol

    My old Ocatvia 4x4 didnt have this heat shield so needless to say i had to rip apart every individual coil wire loom and re insulate with tape due to the heat and age cooking the insulation and causing missfires

  24. #23
    hoffmanvp3's Avatar
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    Next was probably the most important mod you could do to any engine...Oil pressure gauge.
    Was a doodle to do on the Bam engine as there's no stupid Secondary air pump in the way un like my Octy.


  25. #24
    <tuffty/>'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hoffmanvp3 View Post
    Next was the Coil wire loom heat shield, this was looking tired so bought a new one, conveniently enough i used the old one as a heat shield for the boost gauges vacuum hose as the heat from the turbo melted the last hose lol

    My old Ocatvia 4x4 didnt have this heat shield so needless to say i had to rip apart every individual coil wire loom and re insulate with tape due to the heat and age cooking the insulation and causing missfires
    Loom is 30 quid and easier to replace... common issue this due to the heat...

    <tuffty/>
    Silver 2001 AMK S3. Silver alcantara interior... now with added powarrrrrrrr, torques. VAGCOM + KII-USB. >> My build thread...

  26. #25
    hoffmanvp3's Avatar
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    Next was the Oil Catch Can from 42 draft designs.
    The old PCV breather system was well beyond rotten.









  27. #26
    hoffmanvp3's Avatar
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    Now once i got the Shark Stage 1 remap i got myself a FMIC, now with a Stage 1 you might not need it BUT 10 years off road grime and ****e building up in the twin SMIC there not as efficient as the FMIC and my god it made a difference



    This me doing a quick 30psi pressure test before i even open the bonnet just to make sure i don't have any leaky welds e.t.c


    One word of advise....make sure the blanking caps jubile clips are on tight before you pressurise as i didn't and almost killed the cat when they blew of at 25PSI lol



    And believe me this did not go down well with the missus when i was caught leak testing in the bath lol
    s3dave, Alex C, superkarl and 2 others like this.

  28. #27
    hoffmanvp3's Avatar
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    Then it was time for the N249 by-pass.
    couldn't believe how easy this was to do



    It also cleans up the head very nicely
    Bradderz_1988 likes this.

  29. #28
    hoffmanvp3's Avatar
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    And for those days you get bored i roped the missus into carbon wrapping the door blades and rear bumper trim




  30. #29
    hoffmanvp3's Avatar
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    And here`s me work horse while i re-build the Bam.
    2002 Octavia 4x4 1.8T with 80K on the clock
    Bought for £600 FSH with one previous owner.....al yow who needed a hip replacement (thats the only reason why she sold it) so it aint been thrashed lol
    just fitting the 312mm caliper kit to it as the oem were like puka pie dishes lol
    also has the Shark Stage 1 remap so not a slow coach by any means
    s3dave likes this.

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    Cactus green 8L S3 - B5 TIP + Jetex, Revised 007p, R32 rear ARB, AP Coilovers, Compbrake rear arms, Full Powerflexed dogbone.

  32. #31
    hoffmanvp3's Avatar
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    Feck that does look tempting
    But should be disciplined and buy the internals first

    cheers for the heads up
    Jason.s likes this.

  33. #32
    hoffmanvp3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason.s View Post
    Looks like this is for Front wheel drive cars, Might not fit the S3

  34. #33
    Prawn's Avatar
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    that kit is for LHD cars. not going to be much use at all.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Prawns TFSI Turbo'd 1.8T Track Car

    But I know nothing so ignore me.

  35. #34
    hoffmanvp3's Avatar
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    That`s probably why "it was never used" as the ad says, pity tho

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  37. #36
    <tuffty/>'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ci-ryder View Post
    450hp is laughable from that turbo... its the same as my old GT30... internal gate and smaller turbine... 380 ish with the right hardware. ..

    <tuffty/>
    Silver 2001 AMK S3. Silver alcantara interior... now with added powarrrrrrrr, torques. VAGCOM + KII-USB. >> My build thread...

  38. #37
    hoffmanvp3's Avatar
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    Fair play, I never know what to believe from such ads. so many big power claims.

  40. #39
    hoffmanvp3's Avatar
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    No injectors tho.........maybe punt him £900 seeing as the turbo prob needs a service

  41. #40
    hoffmanvp3's Avatar
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    Well plans have changed with the BT plan and i`m now going Hybrid KO4 route as i wanna keep the drive-ability of the car.
    being looking around and come across this:
    MD421 Stage 4 Hybrid Turbo for Audi S3, TT and Leon Cupra MD421 Stage 4 Hybrid Turbo for Audi S3, TT and Leon Cupra [MD421] - £1,230.00 : Turbo Dynamics, Turbochargers & Performance Products

    Thoughts please?
    What Injectors would suit this?
    From what ive calculated that the hybrid route is the cheaper route to use good usable power increase.
    Dont want diesels passing me lol
    Cheers

 

 
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