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Thread: S3 Brakes

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    S3 Brakes

    Finally got all my brakes delivered! Decided to stay with the standard 1 pots, got a busy afternoon ahead!!

    brakes.jpg

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    nice, gotta do mine too, after doing the cv boot ns, i discovered that the pleasant chap that owned the car before me put standars a3 discs on the front but the calipers are s3, so my pads are half worn and half brand new. bless him.

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    How much did that lot cost pal....?

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    Ebc pads...312's?

    Fail.

    Just like your last thread, should have done a search.
    I quite often say I'm going to do things.

    Then never do them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 16Klappe View Post
    Ebc pads...312's?

    Fail.

    Just like your last thread, should have done a search.
    Are they not to your satisfaction?

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    Quote Originally Posted by cecilthesausage View Post
    How much did that lot cost pal....?
    £250 for all mate

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    Quote Originally Posted by azman View Post
    nice, gotta do mine too, after doing the cv boot ns, i discovered that the pleasant chap that owned the car before me put standars a3 discs on the front but the calipers are s3, so my pads are half worn and half brand new. bless him.
    Lol very nice of him!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ollie2013uk View Post
    Lol very nice of him!!
    yeah just abit, suppose thats what happens when ur to eager to buy a car.

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    Quote Originally Posted by azman View Post
    yeah just abit, suppose thats what happens when ur to eager to buy a car.
    Well to be fair, you'd expect the car to have the correct brakes wouldn't you!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ollie2013uk View Post
    Well to be fair, you'd expect the car to have the correct brakes wouldn't you!!
    the car was cheap tbh, now im learning if it seems too good to be true, it generally is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by azman View Post
    the car was cheap tbh, now im learning if it seems too good to be true, it generally is.
    Yeah there is that, but on the flip side I got mine for 2400 with a full audi history and only 3 owners, just someone had keyed it! seeing as a mate of mine sprays cars for a living he re sprayed it for the price of the paint and a night on the beer!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ollie2013uk View Post
    Yeah there is that, but on the flip side I got mine for 2400 with a full audi history and only 3 owners, just someone had keyed it! seeing as a mate of mine sprays cars for a living he re sprayed it for the price of the paint and a night on the beer!!
    very nice,

    mine is a 2000 apy, part service, custom code, top end rebuild, new clutch dmf and slave cylinder,
    paid 2000 got near 4000 and still not upto spec.
    will be happy to get my initial money bk, then move onto a s4 avant 4.2.

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    Quote Originally Posted by azman View Post
    very nice,

    mine is a 2000 apy, part service, custom code, top end rebuild, new clutch dmf and slave cylinder,
    paid 2000 got near 4000 and still not upto spec.
    will be happy to get my initial money bk, then move onto a s4 avant 4.2.
    Blimey!! tbf the S4 4.2 are reasonably priced now. I was looking to buy a MK4 R32 before the S3 but they were a little bit too high for me but I was looking yesterday and there sitting at 5.5k now which tempts me!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ollie2013uk View Post
    Are they not to your satisfaction?
    Just ****.

    Hopefully the pads will delaminate and you'll end up brakeless and wishing you had listened to people. With the monster heat the poorly ventilated 312's will make it is highly likely.

    IF you had of searched you would know that EBC themselves issued an informal safety warning after SEVERAL 8L vehicles managed to sheer the substance which adheres the material to the backings. Leaving the backings and no material to stop the car...

    Such a shame when people waste their money due to their own inability to converse
    I quite often say I'm going to do things.

    Then never do them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 16Klappe View Post
    Just ****.

    Hopefully the pads will delaminate and you'll end up brakeless and wishing you had listened to people. With the monster heat the poorly ventilated 312's will make it is highly likely.

    IF you had of searched you would know that EBC themselves issued an informal safety warning after SEVERAL 8L vehicles managed to sheer the substance which adheres the material to the backings. Leaving the backings and no material to stop the car...

    Such a shame when people waste their money due to their own inability to converse


    As always a very helpful post from you, All I saw when I "searched", was old posts about EBC discs and how someone on the forum knew someone, who knew someones brother in law from the pub who had a bad experience with the EBC discs. Like everything you live and learn I'll go with what i'm happy with and if that turns out to be a mistake then i'll just replace them!

    I shall let you know how I get on with them once I've taken them around the nurburgring.

    Will you be at GTI Inters tomorrow out of interest?
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    ohhh Jardo you have been owned, as we know your not going to inters
    ​Wish Rachel would let me have my TDI mk5 back


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    and to add to that, my 300bhp A3 has EBC Redstuff pads and the only issue i have found is they groan when cold, apart from that they seem fine
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    ​Wish Rachel would let me have my TDI mk5 back


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    Quote Originally Posted by phil miller View Post
    ohhh Jardo you have been owned, as we know your not going to inters
    Shame, I'd love to meet the bloke who's always jumping on my posts to have a pop at me or what i'm doing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ollie2013uk View Post
    Shame, I'd love to meet the bloke who's always jumping on my posts to have a pop at me or what i'm doing.
    I wouldn't worry about it..... He does it to everyone....
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    Personally I would be getting all of my product testing done a long time before going to the Ring. But whatever, you're clearly a total pro so what can I possibly tell you. I

    I don't need your opinion on the pads; I've used them on and off track (otherwise I wouldn't comment with such confidence). And with the heat of 312's they are not something I am happy to trust. The compound itself is fine, no worries there. But I have seen more than enough fail to not trust them.

    No I am not going to Inters, because I have no interest in it. Many of my friends are going though, so feel free to ask them how awesome I am.

    Feel free to continue buying things and doing testing and research on products many other people have done before you, it'll cost you a fortune and you will end up doing everything twice.

    Also just to jog your memory, when you were originally asking about brakes I offered you assistance and you were a total **** funnel of a man.

    I also tried my best to make you aware that you had been short changed with your mapping and should really have a safety check and diagnostic session post map. Which tens of people agreed with, even a forum sponsor. So when kicking off at me next, think about the level of "service and support" I was suggesting you deserved and have given you, and the level of service you were given by a multi million £ company who took £300 of your money. Only trying to help you out and stop you making mistakes...
    Last edited by 16Klappe; 6th July 2013 at 19:10.
    I quite often say I'm going to do things.

    Then never do them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 16Klappe View Post
    Personally I would be getting all of my product testing done a long time before going to the Ring. But whatever, you're clearly a total pro so what can I possibly tell you. I

    I don't need your opinion on the pads; I've used them on and off track (otherwise I wouldn't comment with such confidence). And with the heat of 312's they are not something I am happy to trust. The compound itself is fine, no worries there. But I have seen more than enough fail to not trust them.

    No I am not going to Inters, because I have no interest in it. Many of my friends are going though, so feel free to ask them how awesome I am.

    Feel free to continue buying things and doing testing and research on products many other people have done before you, it'll cost you a fortune and you will end up doing everything twice.

    Also just to jog your memory, when you were originally asking about brakes I offered you assistance and you were a total **** funnel of a man.

    I also tried my best to make you aware that you had been short changed with your mapping and should really have a safety check and diagnostic session post map. Which tens of people agreed with, even a forum sponsor. So when kicking off at me next, think about the level of "service and support" I was suggesting you deserved and the level of service you were given by a multi million £ company who took £300 of your money. Only trying to help you out and stop you making mistakes...

    So generally speaking, FU if you think I am NOT going to now make it my life goal to belittle anything you decide to do. Your attitude sucks, it sucked a few weeks ago and it has sucked in ever insufferable comment of yours I have seen since.

    Shame you won't be at inters, Yeah I will definitely ask about you. People do speak highly of you on here already so i've no doubt people will have nothing but good things to say about you.

    Wow you must have some spare time! You must do whatever you need to do to pass the time. I would however suggest spending your time more constructively, i.e maybe go out, meet new people, get yourself a mrs. Just a thought. Each to their own i guess.

    Stay lucky bud.

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    To slow on the edit Jardo....lol

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    Ahhhh, broad sweeping internet based statements. Couldn't be further from the truth son. I am good "real life" friends with 50% of the people who have posted within this thread, and that's just one thread.

    The internet makes me LOL so much, but whatever as long as you are happy.

    Enjoy your car, have fun at the ring and fingers crossed your brakes don't kill you.
    I quite often say I'm going to do things.

    Then never do them.

  25. #24
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    Jardo's a twat! Just saying...






















    But I love him
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    Quote Originally Posted by 16Klappe View Post

    IF you had of searched you would know that EBC themselves issued an informal safety warning after SEVERAL 8L vehicles managed to sheer the substance which adheres the material to the backings. Leaving the backings and no material to stop the car...
    So the other week I had my EBC red stuff pads changed for the rear of my car, as it turned out the callipers were pretty siezed and were at times keeping the 'pads' engaged with the disc after the requested braking.

    I have attached a couple of pictures that show the pad material cracked and also 1 of the pads completely missing! (terrible noise on the way to the garage as it must have fallen out on the way!)

    NOW I have to stress that this ONLY occurred on the rear discs due to my calipers sticking and therefore the pads were engaged for very long periods of time- hence the heat building up significantly and resulted in them cracking and also coming loose from the pad backing plate as it's only secured with some adhesive.

    I have been using red stuffs all round for a good 4 years+ and have never had any issues (cracking, pads falling away) with the front pads tbh, but then again my front calipers have never been seized AFAIK and as soon as the brake pad warning symbol comes up (or before) I get the pads changed asap.
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    And the above is exactly what I mean.

    Under proper driving conditions especially given the weight if an S3 the 312's are easily capable of making the sort of heat that your sticky rear caliper can make, just for a far shorter period.

    Nice to know that they are still able to crack away from the backing under extreme circumstance and that my information is valid, not so nice for you...

    What did you replace with? EBC again or DS this time?
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    I ended up replacing my rears with pagid discs and EBC red stuff again. The only reason they failed in the first place was due to my calipers sticking. Never come across that issue before and a close mate of mine has also had it happen with OEM items and on a lighter car.


    I've never had any issues with my fronts tbh apart from the occasional heat fade when I'm pushing hard- but never in my 75k of driving my S3 have I seen the red stuffs crack on the front and I must have gone through at least 4 sets now. Next stop for me on the fronts is LCR brembos with DS2500 though, as I want to see what all the fuss is about lol


    Just out of interest....where EBC post this safety warning? As I've always heard rumours and myths about this but nothing official. They must have changed or altered the design in someway if a large company like that issues a warning and carries on selling the item to our cars?

    Quote Originally Posted by 16Klappe View Post
    EBC themselves issued an informal safety warning after SEVERAL 8L vehicles managed to sheer the substance which adheres the material to the backings. Leaving the backings and no material to stop the car...

    (Awaits "I can't drive/drive hard enough comments!" Lol)
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  29. #28
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    If you're driving the car on the road, I can't see an issue. Only a true moron would generate that much heat on the road.

    If you're going to the ring as the OP claims or driving your car with outright performance in mind then my opinion stands. IF that's the case then you would have been much better with LCR Brembos

    EBC's "warnings" etc were all unofficial, very much the odd forum post here, the odd conversation and email there. Very cloak and dagger like most things in the industry that could be detrimental to business. However the sort of characters who were reporting these issues were not to be taken lightly.

    My own EBC pads broke away from their backings after ADI, and that was only a 15min session at Combe...They were rather old, but they still broke down before wearing out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 16Klappe View Post
    My own EBC pads broke away from their backings after ADI, and that was only a 15min session at Combe...They were rather old, but they still broke down before wearing out.
    I think you hit the nail on the head with that last comment tbh

    As you can see from my pads above, they were also pretty old when they failed. Clearly red stuffs have a lower temperature rate than the DS2500s, so therefore they will be transferring a huge amount of heat to the metal plate when the pads are low, as apposed to when they have a thick wedge of pad material left. So when the brakes are getting thoroughly worked out and the pad life is low, that's the time they can/will crack and come away from the plate.

    So basically OP- if the pads are pretty new with decent life in them for when you go to the ring it shouldn't be to much of an issue- just be aware of the heat fade and cheese feel you will get after around 5-10 minutes of sheer track abuse! Lol If you go with relatively low pad life left then expect a Jardo scenario where the pads could crack/fall off from the plate. (This is all IMO obviously)
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    I agree with the above totally; you can't put a mileage on it at all. Just check the wear before and after heavy use and change before the pads get low.

    There could be a logical argument to there being more leverage on the material to backings when the pads are thicker; but this is minimal and the issues are far more than likely heat cycle based rather than sheer force.

    312's = more heat than 323's and less ventilation = the heat may stay in the discs and pads longer. Which should mean that the pads heat cycle more in the LCR set up which creates a more managed "heat up, then cool down" pattern rather than "hot as ****, boiling the fluid, **** **** ****. Cool down" cycle in the 312's.

    You want the pads and discs to be supplying the braking power, not the clamping piston force.

    Remember to use the brakes to warm the tires and brakes before killing it, and remember to cool down thoroughly and then when the vehicle is parked do not apply the handbrake. Chock the car.

    This will prevent heat bonding the pads to the discs on the back, as well as reducing the minimal chance of warping if you really ****er it on.

    How are you planning on bedding these discs and pads in?

    -

    A fairly broad post, but hopefully it will learn a few things to the more enthusiastic 312mm users...
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    Quote Originally Posted by 16Klappe View Post
    Remember to use the brakes to warm the tires and brakes before killing it, and remember to cool down thoroughly and then when the vehicle is parked do not apply the handbrake. Chock the car.

    This will prevent heat bonding the pads to the discs on the back, as well as reducing the minimal chance of warping if you really ****er it on.
    +1 Best to keep the wheels turning to stop any hot spots occurring on the discs until they've cooled and def. don't put the handbrake on.

    When you get the brakes really hot and then stop and apply the hand brake, or even sit at traffic lights with your foot on the brake pedal ... your pads clamped on *really* hot discs cause a chemical reaction to occur and change the crystalline structure of the disc (or something like that). I'll try to dig out the white paper on it - it was from a performance brake specialist company.

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    S3 AMK 2002. Only 203 BHP left in my poor little engine, currently searching for the 7 missing horses.
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    I did the Ring on completely stock brakes once. Man that was an interesting few laps
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    Quote Originally Posted by Westy View Post
    I did the Ring on completely stock brakes once. Man that was an interesting few laps
    Still alive to tell the tale! LoL

    Was everything on the brakes stock!? So OEM pads, discs and brake fluid!?
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  36. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwistof View Post
    Still alive to tell the tale! LoL

    Was everything on the brakes stock!? So OEM pads, discs and brake fluid!?
    Yep, all stock. Couldn't even last 1 lap. A year later I had motul racing fluid, DS2500s, and Brembo max discs and the improvement was night and day. The following year I had same discs and pads but 4 pots and again another improvement.
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  37. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Westy View Post
    Yep, all stock. Couldn't even last 1 lap. A year later I had motul racing fluid, DS2500s, and Brembo max discs and the improvement was night and day. The following year I had same discs and pads but 4 pots and again another improvement.
    How was it on the standard calipers and uprated discs and pads? I have been offered some brembo 4 pots this evening with discs and pads at a reasonable price!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Westy View Post
    Yep, all stock. Couldn't even last 1 lap. A year later I had motul racing fluid, DS2500s, and Brembo max discs and the improvement was night and day. The following year I had same discs and pads but 4 pots and again another improvement.
    Lol no wonder that was a few interesting laps! Not so long after you got the car I'm assuming?

    OP - let us know how you get on with your set up; when are you off to 'the ring'?

    Personally I've told myself I'm not tracking my car until I get LCR brembos tbh. I'm not up for paying good money for a track session and not being able to push on hard due to the hardware failing or not performing everyone I've spoken to/thread I've read says the 312s turn cheesy when tracking them, so stay just bare that in mind
    2000 S3 APY

    18" BBS RSII with Michelin PS3s, 20mm H&R adapters, Relentless 3" DP and Sports cat, B5 V1 induction kit, cone filter+heat shield, Forge 007P, Awesome GTI SMF, AP coilovers, Facelift rear lights, Full Powerflex poly bush kit, R32 Rear ARB, SAI delete, N249 by-pass, Upgraded Engine mounts with Polytek, Stage 1 CC at Badger 5.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwistof View Post
    Lol no wonder that was a few interesting laps! Not so long after you got the car I'm assuming?

    OP - let us know how you get on with your set up; when are you off to 'the ring'?

    Personally I've told myself I'm not tracking my car until I get LCR brembos tbh. I'm not up for paying good money for a track session and not being able to push on hard due to the hardware failing or not performing everyone I've spoken to/thread I've read says the 312s turn cheesy when tracking them, so stay just bare that in mind
    I'm off on the 26th July, I've tracked worse cars with smaller brakes, not too worried to be honest, always got a hand brake! I am tempted to get some 4 pots though!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ollie2013uk View Post
    I'm off on the 26th July, I've tracked worse cars with smaller brakes, not too worried to be honest, always got a hand brake! I am tempted to get some 4 pots though!!
    Get the 4 pots 100%
    ollie2013uk likes this.
    2000 S3 APY

    18" BBS RSII with Michelin PS3s, 20mm H&R adapters, Relentless 3" DP and Sports cat, B5 V1 induction kit, cone filter+heat shield, Forge 007P, Awesome GTI SMF, AP coilovers, Facelift rear lights, Full Powerflex poly bush kit, R32 Rear ARB, SAI delete, N249 by-pass, Upgraded Engine mounts with Polytek, Stage 1 CC at Badger 5.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwistof View Post
    Get the 4 pots 100%
    OK, I'm after a set £400 need new discs though

 

 
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