newbie here needing help.....

[cooper86]

hi all, i'm new here but have been using the forum for awhile now and have never introduced myself or my car .
i didnt want my first post to be about a problem but unfortunatly it is. i have a 2000 audi s3 APY and today it has decided to chuck a rod through the block . i'v been searching around the forum and cant seem to find a definate answer to what other engines i can put straight in to my s3, i'v read so many posts tonight that i think i'v confused myself lol.

so my question is: what engine codes will go into my car without any wiring issues/problems, and will an engine from a vw, seat or skoda be alrite or will they not work with the ecu etc?
i can get my hands on an amk engine but i'm not sure weather it will be alrite as i remember reading about the apy having mechanical vvt or no vvt?
i'm planning on doing a straight swop if i can but am willing to change things from my engine if i have to.

hopefully some of you will be able to clear things up for me as you all seem to know your stuff about these cars/engines from the posts i'v read so far.

thanks in advance

 

[superkarl]

All transverse 1.8t blocks are the same. But you should look for APY, AMK, BAM, AGU ideally, as they all have the 'stronger' internals.

But failing them, you can use any other 1.8t if youre not going crazy with tuning.

What happened to your old engine, was it oil sstarvation or running ALL the boost?

 

[cooper86]

So i can fit any of tho's engines then, coz there seems to be alot of bam engines about? Not sure wat happened to cause it, didnt have no rattles, tapping or knocks, its got full service history and was running 1.3 bar of boost, revo stage 2 map, milltek exhaust inc decat, fmic, B5 tip an a few other things. I'v only had it a few months an the only things i have done to it was remove the n249 valve following the guide on here and sort a few leaks out and fit a B5 tip.

 

[superkarl]

Sounds like you were just unlucky then, its rare, but does happen from time to time with various levels of tune.

Yes any of the above mentioned will do.

 

[cooper86]

Yea thats wat i'm putting it down to lol. I'v noticed a couple of posts on my search around the forum about the same thing happening so at least i'm not the only one.
Doesnt the bam engine have electric vvt tho? How would i get around that, would i just have to replace all the parts from my apy engine?

 

[superkarl]

Your car has vvt, and if your new engine doesnt have it then its easily transferable. its only the unit at the chain side of the head, has an electric plug on it.

 

[cooper86]

See thats where i'v confused my self then cause i was reading a post that said the apy engine either didnt have vvt or if it did had mechanical vvt an then i read another post which said some engines had electric vvt and is not a straight swop for the apy. What about the sai? I read in a post the bam engine hasnt got it so would i just have todo the sai delete on my loom?

 

[superkarl]

Whether it has vvt or not, or the replacement does or doesnt, it doesnt matter. You just swap for whatwver your loom requires, simple as that.
And no, amk or bam dont have sai, thats a feature of the early engines. This can be deleted, both mechanically and in software

 

[cooper86]

Thats ok then. I was going to do the sai delete anyway. Thanks for all your help

 

[cooper86]

Is there anything else i should be looking to change while the engine is out, so far i'm going to be changing cambelt & tensioners, waterpump, clutch & slave cylinder possibly flywheel, thermostat. Is there anything else i should be looking at to change?

 

[s3dave]

APY = No VVT

 

[superkarl]

Is there anything else i should be looking to change while the engine is out, so far i'm going to be changing cambelt & tensioners, waterpump, clutch & slave cylinder possibly flywheel, thermostat. Is there anything else i should be looking at to change?

oil pump and oil pick up pipe

 

[cooper86]

oil pump and oil pick up pipe

Are the oil pumps the same across the range or do they differ in pressure?

 

[cooper86]

APY = No VVT

Would i still be able to fit a amk? I'm guessing i would just have to remove the vvt from the amk engine?

 

[s3dave]

Yes or just swap cams or the head over..
oil pumps are all the same

 

[cooper86]

I'v just been offered a 20v turbo engine complete with all manifolds and ancilleries for £250, was only removed from the car due to it being written off with back end damage, the only problem is its from an a4. I remember reading some where that they wont fit due to them being fitted non transverse, can any tell me whats different with them for them not to fit.

 

[s3dave]

The block has different mounting points = no good

 

[cooper86]

was thinking it was going to be something like that. Oh well i'll have to carry on searching. Thanks for the quick reply :thumbup:

 

[cooper86]

Now i'm proper confused just spoken to the vag specialist about the engine from the a4 that they have and there mechanic who is audi trained says it will definatly fit, so when i mentioned about the gearbox mounting being different due to the way the engine is located he said thats bull**** and the only thing i would have to do is swop all the stuff from my engine to the new one cause things are routed differently. I'v had 2 other people tell me what you have told me tho s3dave. Oh an the engine code of the a4 engine is AED which going by wat i'v been reading on this forum wouldnt be a match for my s3, so i'm going to leave this one an carry on looking for an engine code from the ones superkarl mentioned earlier in this post.

 

[superkarl]

it will not fit. the blocks in longitudinal cars are totally different. 058 vs the 06a that you need. they mount the wrong way, have external water pumps, and the casting is totally different.
You need a TRANSVERSE engine.

 

[Gops]

Is it only the block that's damaged? Really, your better off getting a new engine and popping some rods in it as it might just happen again!?

 

[<tuffty/>]

Any transverse 20v turbo engine will fit, not all are suitable though... you should be looking to use AGU, AMK, BAM, APY, AYP, APX... (there are a couple of others but can't think of the numbers off hand).. basically, TT 225, S3 210 or 225, LCR 210 or 225, A3 (AGU), Golf (AGU), Ibiza Cupra (AYP)... all these have 20mm pinned rods and would be the better choice as a doner...

Main differences will be SAI, VVT and in the case of the AGU a large port head... as already mention APY doesn't have VVT so either reuse your head if its ok or if you end up with an AMK/BAM engine then you can either swap out the cam chain tensioners or again just use the bottom end...

Inline engines from early A4's etc are 058 blocks as mentioned and while arguably you 'can' fit them in its not a straight swap and considering how easy it is to buy the right type of engine not really worth the agro... 058 block is old skool 16v bottom end really... 06a is the newer engine...

Engines to avoid will be later AUM engines from A3's, Golfs, Polo's etc as these have weaker bottom ends using 19mm sintered crack rods...

Shameless plug time...
Depending on how quickly you need an engine I will have my current bottom end available soon once I have finished building my new stroker engine... its done 15k since I last rebuilt with rods/shells/oil pump etc...

<tuffty/>

 

[s3dave]

ARY are 19mm pins too found in some TQS

 

[jezzy]

Does the bottom end have uprated rods?

just read again sounds like it does tuffty.
OOO how much?

 

[<tuffty/>]

Does the bottom end have uprated rods?

just read again sounds like it does tuffty.
OOO how much?

Won't discuss it on this thread mate... info on the last build is here...
http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/a3-s3-...9-my-minor-modding-thread-35.html#post1441208

PM me if you wish to discuss further

<tuffty/>

 

[cooper86]

Any transverse 20v turbo engine will fit, not all are suitable though... you should be looking to use AGU, AMK, BAM, APY, AYP, APX... (there are a couple of others but can't think of the numbers off hand).. basically, TT 225, S3 210 or 225, LCR 210 or 225, A3 (AGU), Golf (AGU), Ibiza Cupra (AYP)... all these have 20mm pinned rods and would be the better choice as a doner...

Main differences will be SAI, VVT and in the case of the AGU a large port head... as already mention APY doesn't have VVT so either reuse your head if its ok or if you end up with an AMK/BAM engine then you can either swap out the cam chain tensioners or again just use the bottom end...

Inline engines from early A4's etc are 058 blocks as mentioned and while arguably you 'can' fit them in its not a straight swap and considering how easy it is to buy the right type of engine not really worth the agro... 058 block is old skool 16v bottom end really... 06a is the newer engine...

Engines to avoid will be later AUM engines from A3's, Golfs, Polo's etc as these have weaker bottom ends using 19mm sintered crack rods...

Shameless plug time...
Depending on how quickly you need an engine I will have my current bottom end available soon once I have finished building my new stroker engine... its done 15k since I last rebuilt with rods/shells/oil pump etc...

<tuffty/>

Thank you for all that info i might be able to get an amk engine which has done 60k miles so hopefully i'll be chucking that in an changing the cam chain tensioners cause i dont know if my head is going to be any good. I need it done pretty soon otherwise i would of waited for your bottem end tuffty thanks again for all the advise an info :thumbup:

 

[<tuffty/>]

Thank you for all that info i might be able to get an amk engine which has done 60k miles so hopefully i'll be chucking that in an changing the cam chain tensioners cause i dont know if my head is going to be any good. I need it done pretty soon otherwise i would of waited for your bottem end tuffty thanks again for all the advise an info :thumbup:

No probs... yep, all you need to do to fit an AMK is swap the cam chain tensioner, remove/delete the SAI as the AMK doesn't have provision for this... swap the knock sensors too as the APY sensors are different to the AMK...

<tuffty/>

 

[cooper86]

Just a quick update.
Spent a few hours on it this afternoon stripping it ready to drop engine out and have discoverd alot more damage than i thought
from what we can see through the holes it looks like the crank has snapped, which has cracked the sump, then gone through the back of the engine and then gone through the front of the engine taking out the bracket which holds all the ancillerys on and also going through the aircon pump :thumbdown: so it looks like my shopping list has gotten even bigger lol.
I'm in the process of uploading some pictures i have taken now, so will put them in this post.

 

[cooper86]

Here's some pics of the damage to the block and how its sitting now at my mates garage :-(

 

[cooper86]

Just a quick question.
Would i have to swap the head over if i used an AGU engine from a golf gti??

 

[<tuffty/>]

Just a quick question.
Would i have to swap the head over if i used an AGU engine from a golf gti??

AGU is large port... AGU doesn't have SAI or VVT... essentially a straight swap but still use your sensors, you will also need to swap the water pipe hard line that runs from the water pump ('front' of block) as the S3 one is different...

<tuffty/>

 

[<tuffty/>]

...just looked over your pictures..... thats not an APY S3 bottom end...

This picture here says it all..

That conrod is a 19mm one, you can tell from the bolt... 20mm rods use nuts and studs... you have an AUM or similar bottom end on it already... either way thats not the engine it left the factory with...

20mm rods look like these (from my AMK engine)

<tuffty/>

 

[cooper86]

AGU is large port... AGU doesn't have SAI or VVT... essentially a straight swap but still use your sensors, you will also need to swap the water pipe hard line that runs from the water pump ('front' of block) as the S3 one is different...

<tuffty/>

Tuffty ur a top man :thumbup: so if i just use all my sensors an inlet etc it'll be a straight swap? I'm going to be removing sai anyway, just gotta order the blanking plate an resistors

 

[cooper86]

...just looked over your pictures..... thats not an APY S3 bottom end...

This picture here says it all..

That conrod is a 19mm one, you can tell from the bolt... 20mm rods use nuts and studs... you have an AUM or similar bottom end on it already... either way thats not the engine it left the factory with...

20mm rods look like these (from my AMK engine)

<tuffty/>

I had a feeling it wasnt the original engine in it so this could explain why this has happened then? Is there any where else on the engine which will say the engine code?

 

[<tuffty/>]

The engine number will be on the block in the red circled area in the pic below

<tuffty/>

 

[<tuffty/>]

...and yes, 19mm sintered crack rods are crap....

<tuffty/>

 

[JUS3IN]

eagle eyed tuffty!-) good luck with the fix mate.

 

[cooper86]

Eagle eye'd indeed

 

[cooper86]

Finally got the engine its sat in my works at the moment so i'm going to give it a quick clean an then get it up to my mates garage an start swapping the parts over. So should be back on the road again soon :thumbup:

 

[cooper86]

Spent a few hours on the car yesterday. Got the engine and gearbox out in 1 .


Also found out it had a sachs paddle clutch fitted.

Now all i gotta do is get a definate list of parts an order them up .
I'm looking at getting a 3" downpipe while the engines out but cant seem to find any in the uk, any one know where i can get one apart from america?