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Thread: Help - turbo hellicoil?

  1. #1
    russwuss's Avatar
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    Help - turbo hellicoil?

    Hi all,

    Garage thinks they've found the problem with the downpipe.. Apparently when the turbo is pushing out its pushing the downpipe away causing the gasket to start blowing again...

    They said they need to take off the turbo and re-hellicoil it so the downpipe seats correctly. Does this sound normal? I'm not sure at this point whether to take off the turbo and ask beach buggy for a Hybrid K04 in exchange... Either way I've got a feeling it's going to be expensive.

    Anyone got any ideas that could help me in this situation? Thanks!

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  3. #2
    RIP S3dave

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    do you mean the inserts for K04 turbo to manifold fixing?

    downpipe are M10 studs normally direct tapped into turbo hoside.
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  4. #3
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    I'm not 100% sure... It had a turbo to downpipe gasket on 30/5/2013 and it's blown again.

    They said the issue is the downpipe is being pushed away from the turbo, causing it to blow.. so I'd guess the threads the M10 studs go into are knackered - as the downpipe isn't tight up to the turbo?

    I better sort some insurance out on the brothers car, go down to garage and check it out. Getting worried the costs are going to spiral out of control though..

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    I know this sounds stupid but are they sure the nut were done up tight enough? I took my turbo off the other day and one of the nuts was a thred or two up the stud so ieither i didn't tighten one down enough and it came a bit loose or i didn't go back over them all after tightening them and the other two had pulled it in more. Its an option to look at i guess?
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  6. #5
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    Just got off the phone with the garage, they said they tried re-bolting back up - made sure everything was tight, drove the car for a few miles and it was blowing again. Took it all off and found one of the Helicoils that's there now is actually coming out, so just won't tighten up properly.

    Not as bad as it first sounded, garage will try and do it as cheap as possible labour wise - hopefully have it by the end of the week

    at least it will never blow again... (hopefully)

    Now to ring Sky customer service to vent / complain about my faulty HD box

  7. #6
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    the only inserts on std k04 are turbo to manifold not turbo to downpipe

    some confusion...
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  8. #7
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    I think he means the KO4 inserts are coming out so when tightened it is against the insert not the turbo, the garage needs to wind them back in flush and start again... i had the same issues, i believe Bill has had some made up if they have buggered them...

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    I'm not 100% sure, I wouldn't have minded going to the garage to see the issue - but couldn't get there. So just told them to carry on.. he's a VW / Audi specialist and I've used him for years on various cars so I don't think he's going to rip me off... just all coming as a bit of a shock and wanted to see what you guys thought.

    Hopefully he's able to get the turbo out the car with no hassle - will see how it goes from there :-(

  10. #9
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    Sounds to me like if there were helicoils in there already & ones pulled out the threads have ripped out completely.

    Might be a better idea to have the hole welded up & re-threaded again..
    ...... Now this one's MUCH better!...

  11. #10
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    That sounds possible, he did say 're-coiled' and that it had been done before. So I'm guessing there's been issues in the past with the car.. he said he found a turbo --> downpipe gasket actually down that area, where someone had tried to replace it and dropped it :-/ as long as it doesn't do it again I'll be happy.. dead embarrassing driving around in a car that sound's like a Corsa B with 20" back box.

  12. #11
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    Is it really that hard to get the turbo out? Garage had the car since Tuesday, said it was gunna be done for the weekend.. Rang today to arrange collection to be told the turbo is still bolted onto the car!!! Argh! No GTI international for me this weekend... Was really looking forward to seeing a few of the S3's there to ( and a few on the strip!)

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    Bill, do you have a photo of a K04 with the standard downpipe studs?

    Going to the garage tonight as it's getting out of hand now, turbo was never helicoiled.. it's the inserts that didn't sit flush, this garage fitted a new gasket less than a month ago, tightened everything up and now discovered that the manifold is cracked to - I did check the manifold the day before taking the car in so tonight is going to get interesting........

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    you talk of inserts then talk about downpipe studs???

    i thought it was the inserts in the turbo that was the problem? the mani-turbo gasket/insert/bolt arrangement.

    p.s. the downpipe studs are just M10 studs and cost peanuts from the dealer for studs and nuts.
    you should also be fitting new bolts for the mani-turbo join, which is where we thought your problem lies

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    Those inserts are the bane of my existence ATM, they need to be torqued down before the bolts can be torqued and I couldn't be arsed to take the turbo off to do it. The bolts back out every now and then and blow the gasket. So I made a 2mm solid stainless gasket (OEM's aren't cheap) and just nip the bolts up when I hear it start to blow.

    Roll on project big turbo!!

    Bill has a post on how he does it, its either on here or his Facebook page. I would say its a good idea to get new inserts too.

  16. #15
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    last time the car went in he told me he'd replaced the 'downpipe gasket' which fixed it.

    but after ringing today he's mentioned metal inserts not sitting flush, which caused the fitting not to be correctly fitted, causing the downpipe to blow.. now the manifold is cracked all the way across (my guess because the turbo hasn't been sitting flush)

    My original "understanding" from what the mechanic told me was the downpipe threads on turbo was knackered, so they were helicoiled previously.. and one of the helicoils has come out.

    I'll go down tonight as he's had the car a week now, can see the ££££ signs.. put if it wasn't sitting flush, he was the last person to replace the gasket, so surely it's not my fault that now the manifold is cracked as a result of work he's done?

  17. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scullies View Post
    Those inserts are the bane of my existence ATM, they need to be torqued down before the bolts can be torqued and I couldn't be arsed to take the turbo off to do it. The bolts back out every now and then and blow the gasket. So I made a 2mm solid stainless gasket (OEM's aren't cheap) and just nip the bolts up when I hear it start to blow.

    Roll on project big turbo!!

    Bill has a post on how he does it, its either on here or his Facebook page. I would say its a good idea to get new inserts too.
    Thanks! I've seen the inserts on the Facebook page (think it was on Beach Buggy Turbos page..) and I understand if that's the issue - but that's turbo to manifold, not turbo to downpipe right? I'll just have to see what he says when I get there... to be honest when he said 'turbo needs taking off and working on' the words hybrid time came to mind :D

  18. #17
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    I did say in post #7 its easily done, but easily rectified too IF they dont start swinging on the bolts to tighten them up because it is still blowing, if the inserts arent flush you will get nowhere even with 20 gaskets..

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    Quote Originally Posted by s3dave View Post
    I did say in post #7 its easily done, but easily rectified too IF they dont start swinging on the bolts to tighten them up because it is still blowing, if the inserts arent flush you will get nowhere even with 20 gaskets..
    I know, but I'd hoped they'd tried that... going down at 16:30 after work to check it out so I can understand. For new manifold + everything else he said £771 :-/

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    £771 ?? pffff, a bit of duct tape to get you by until the B5 mani is ready

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scullies View Post
    £771 ?? pffff, a bit of duct tape to get you by until the B5 mani is ready
    there any chance it's available now? haha... I'll be a pilot tester if needs be.. OEM manifold is £280 from the garage. Was thinking JBS until I read the post the other day about they need porting.. :-(

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    chinese jbs manifold + porting = win

  23. #22
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    Well I've been offered the Chinese JBS manifold for 260USD delivered via PayPal.. iirc. So that's a possibility - just no car until then :-(

    Who could do the porting? I've seen the thread on subdriven.. then where does it stop haha.. gives me another excuse to buy 3" downpipe and 200 cell cat whilst the garage is in that area. Oh god... getting expensive.

  24. #23
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  25. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by badger5 View Post
    thanks! just got back from the garage.... seems there was some confusion when writing up the receipt of the last job. Turbo to Manifold gasket was replaced last time - not downpipe as I previously stated.

    Garage has accepted some liability for not picking this up straight away, the crack on the manifold was on the face.. can only just see it now, then one of the three bolts was sitting out slightly more than the others - causing over time for the gasket to blow again. They've now fixed the insert issue and refaced the turbo. They're only going to charge me half the labour (5 hours @ £50 an hour rather than 10 hours)

    Now to find a manifold.... Bill do you sell these? Or looking to sell them in the very near future? Ideally I want a performance one... best to spend the money now whilst the manifold is out.

    Thanks guy for all the replies, really do appreciate the help!

  26. #25
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    I will be selling a high flow cast manifold, but have not tested it yet, so it too early for me to just sell them... untested etc..
    They work, but the mods I have done I want to test to the extreme to know they support extreme hybrid flow capacity
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  27. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by badger5 View Post
    I will be selling a high flow cast manifold, but have not tested it yet, so it too early for me to just sell them... untested etc..
    They work, but the mods I have done I want to test to the extreme to know they support extreme hybrid flow capacity
    Do you need a test mule? lol



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  28. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by badger5 View Post
    I will be selling a high flow cast manifold, but have not tested it yet, so it too early for me to just sell them... untested etc..
    They work, but the mods I have done I want to test to the extreme to know they support extreme hybrid flow capacity
    No problem.. I thought I'd ask anyways :-) I understand if they're untested - I'm not running hybrid at the moment though ;-) just stock K04. Any chance you have a JBS one knocking around the place that's been ported? lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Do you need a test mule? lol
    not related in the slightest but.. great avatar! lol.

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    I hope the garage torqued the inerts down, if not they going to work loose again and blow the gasket

  31. #30
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    I'll hit them with the old manifold if it does , I'm sure they have though.. all the threads have been out, as the face of the turbo has been machined.

    still looking round for a manifold :-( I have noticed the JBS one has been removed from their website :-/ maybe they've took note of the negative results on the manifold.

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    Does anyone know the torque required for tightening the inserts, also the bolts ?

    Cheers

  33. #32
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    inserts until they bottom out.. they will sit on a shoulder.
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    Ok, would I need to take the turbo out and tighten them up on the workbech ? Or can they be done in situ.

    Mine is blowing and looking at tackling it this weekend.
    Anyone got the turbo to manifold bolt torque ?

    Cheers

 

 

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