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Thread: Big turbo S3 Issues .. Fault codes and Logs

  1. #1
    Nyteryda

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    Big turbo S3 Issues .. Fault codes and Logs

    Evening all

    looking for some advice on some data i retrieved from the car using vagcom. main symptoms i have are hard cold start, general power loss and car doesnt want to rev under acceleration past approx 5.8k rpms.

    several fault codes and a logged third gear pull below


    3 Faults Found:


    17526 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor Heating; B1 S2: Open Circuit
    P1118 - 35-00 - -


    17522 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs
    P1114 - 35-00 - Please Register/Activate


    16706 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs
    P0322 - 35-10 - Please Register/Activate



    RPM Load Inj. On Time Mass Flow RPM Temperature Lambda Bin. Bits RPM Voltage Temp Temp
    TIME TIME TIME
    STAMP /min % ms g/s STAMP /min °C % STAMP /min V °C °C
    0.91 920 32.3 5.1 11.67 0.01 1760 81 0 110111 0.4 1680 13.65 81 36
    2.13 1480 50.4 5.78 17.97 1.31 1080 80 0 110111 1.71 1200 13.86 80 37
    3.42 2000 23.3 2.38 9.92 2.62 2040 80 0 100101 3.02 1960 13.86 80 36
    4.72 2200 65.4 5.78 32.39 3.82 1960 80 -5.5 101011 4.32 2080 13.79 80 37
    5.95 2800 82 7.48 46.44 5.14 2360 80 5.5 101001 5.54 2600 13.72 80 37
    7.36 3640 97.7 8.16 71.56 6.45 3080 80 6.3 101001 6.85 3320 13.58 80 36
    8.65 2800 16.5 0 6.22 7.76 3880 80 10.2 101001 8.16 3800 13.79 80 34
    9.87 2720 85 7.48 47.5 9.05 2600 80 -0.8 100001 9.47 2640 13.86 80 34
    11.37 3240 116.5 11.9 76.64 10.37 2840 80 10.9 101001 10.88 3040 13.79 79 35
    12.57 3880 160.2 20.4 127.03 11.77 3440 80 15.6 101000 12.18 3640 13.37 80 35
    13.79 4680 176.7 25.16 157.39 12.99 4160 80 20.3 101000 13.39 4440 13.79 80 35
    15.1 5440 178.9 26.52 182.86 14.19 4920 80 21.1 101000 14.61 5160 13.65 80 34
    16.3 5720 180.5 27.54 191.22 15.5 5640 80 24.2 101000 15.9 5720 13.79 79 36
    17.52 4320 14.3 0 8.69 16.7 5760 79 0 110000 17.1 4840 13.72 79 34
    18.81 4160 14.3 0 11.47 17.92 4280 79 0 110000 18.32 4240 13.72 79 34
    20.03 3200 15 0 9.56 19.21 3760 79 0 110000 19.63 3040 13.65 79 35
    21.42 2920 15 0 8.86 20.52 3080 80 0 110000 20.92 3000 13.65 79 35

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  3. #2
    Scullies's Avatar
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    MAF looks dead. Did you try running it with the MAF unplugged?

    also second oxygen sensor might need replacing. B1S2 = bank 1 sensor 2

  4. #3
    Nyteryda

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    Annoyingly i replaced both those bits from eurocarparts recently ..

  5. #4
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    Car is adding alot of fuel from 2700-5800, any logs with actual boost vs desired?

    Would be nice to see the rest of the error codes...

    What temp readings are those in the last coloum?

    Check fuel pressure.

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    I retract my statement
    I was reading the injection readings as the g/s reading.

    MAF seems to be working

  7. #6
    <tuffty/>'s Avatar
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    Something is amiss as the injector duty is mentally high... at 5720rpm the injectors are over 27ms and the ECU is adding 24% fuel.... that suggests a tired fuel pump

    Also notice the engine temp doesn't get over 80 degrees...

    17522/P1114 - Ross-Tech Wiki
    17522/P1114 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor; B1 S2: Internal Resistance too High

    16706/P0322/000802 - Ross-Tech Wiki
    16706/P0322/000802 - Engine Speed Sensor (G28): No Signal

    You have stated in the title this is a big turbo S3 so applying the normal methods of diagnostics is going to be tricky especially as we have no ide of the spec, what actual mods you have done, what mapping, stuff thats been removed, stuff that been uprated etc... going in blind atm..

    I assume you have a decat? is the rear lambda plugged in? suggests the rear lambda is shot... (and seemingly not coded out?)

    <tuffty/>
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  8. #7
    <tuffty/>'s Avatar
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    Ok... found some info about your car...
    Which injectors for big turbo set-up ?

    I assume the above is still relevant and that you are using injectors that are too small?

    Seems your issues are too small an injector and potentially a tired fuel pump... please clarify current spec

    <tuffty/>
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  9. #8
    Nyteryda

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    Quote Originally Posted by <tuffty/> View Post
    Ok... found some info about your car...
    Which injectors for big turbo set-up ?

    I assume the above is still relevant and that you are using injectors that are too small?

    Seems your issues are too small an injector and potentially a tired fuel pump... please clarify current spec

    <tuffty/>
    hi

    thanks for all your responses .. the car has the same spec as in the posted thread link, however i have fitted a new maf, cts, rear o2 sensor and spark plugs since then. in response to suggestions of a tired fuel pump i have got a bosch 044 inline ready to plumb in, i already tried a lower mileage used s3 intank one but no difference. for a while it was taking three cranks to start the car with a lot of spluttering, now its taking 5-10 cranks.. warm restart fine no problem.. wondering if that is fuel pressure related aswell

  10. #9
    superkarl's Avatar
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    You are ignoring the fact people have told you the injectors are too small

    Thre is no way around it.

  11. #10
    Nyteryda

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    Quote Originally Posted by superkarl View Post
    You are ignoring the fact people have told you the injectors are too small

    There is no way around it.
    when jabba put those 450s in during the mapping session i did question it at the time but went with their decision as they are the 'experts'.. i did ring them up on a later date to discuss it again and they insisted that they were not too small so i focused on fuel delivery instead. from what i can understand from the log they do seem to be maxed out ? (my first log!) .. however when it was mapped it came in with 343bhp running lean at top end iirc, so the injectors must be good for that at least which is a lot more than its putting out at the mo ?

  12. #11
    <tuffty/>'s Avatar
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    No... get um changed for at least 550's and with an 044 inline backing up the intank you can use a 4bar FPR to give more than enough fuelling overhead..

    440's on a wideband ECU is not good for this powerlevel... no overhead left... the logs say it all..

    I have seen a few Jabba mapped cars and would rather not continue to comment but needless to say your current setup is not right...

    Bill maxed 550's out at around 360hp on a big turbo LCR recently...

    There are other tuning 'tricks' Jabba use too... I would guess you have a 'label' stuck on your MAF element?...

    My advice is this.... fit the inline, get 550cc Bosch injectors and a 4bar FPR then go to Bill or Niki and get it mapped properly... you will not regret it..

    <tuffty/>
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  13. #12
    RIP S3dave

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyteryda View Post
    when jabba put those 450s in during the mapping session i did question it at the time but went with their decision as they are the 'experts'.. i did ring them up on a later date to discuss it again and they insisted that they were not too small so i focused on fuel delivery instead. from what i can understand from the log they do seem to be maxed out ? (my first log!) .. however when it was mapped it came in with 343bhp running lean at top end iirc, so the injectors must be good for that at least which is a lot more than its putting out at the mo ?
    They are too small for that power
    As confirmed by the logs... simple evidence

    confirm fuel pressure

    and state your actual spec.... if you want help...
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  14. #13
    Nyteryda

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    ok guys, changed over the 450 green giants for siemens 630s .. i know it needs mapping again but it pulls hard past the previous 5.5k cut-off point now which I am over the moon about !

    My conclusion is that JABBASPORT are a joke, they fitted injectors that were categorically too small for the application and (potentially) compromised the entire engine build by letting me drive off with ridiculously high lean readings (mike told me it was the fuel pump at fault which i spent much time and money investigating to no avail).

    When quizzed on their decision they bull****ted my engine builder and even tried to keep my old injectors after removal (they were actually bigger than the 450s that Mike told me were 'perfect'.. 'not too big' Mike said) to seemingly hide their deviousness. In no uncertain terms I feel robbed by these people and would try to take them to the cleaners if I didn't have better things to be getting on with ..

    Anyway, moving on to those better things .. before I get it mapped again, is it worth putting on an r32 throttle body ? happy with any gains it may yield..

    cheers

  15. #14
    RIP S3dave

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    another happy jabba customer then... woops

    onward and upward dude..
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  16. #15
    Nyteryda

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    Yep.. just need to get a few minor things sorted out now (slight engine oil leak/slight exhaust leak/ext fuel pump fitted) and then will be looking to have it mapped, i guess i just need to give you a call (bill) when the car is ready to see when you have a slot .. :-)

    ps is it worth fitting an r32 throttle body in conjunction with (already fitted) rmr manifold and agu head ?

  17. #16
    superkarl's Avatar
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    Yes fit it

  18. #17
    <tuffty/>'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyteryda View Post
    ...ps is it worth fitting an r32 throttle body in conjunction with (already fitted) rmr manifold and agu head ?
    Quote Originally Posted by superkarl View Post
    Yes fit it
    ...don't forget to weld beads on the end or your hoses will pop off...

    <tuffty/>
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  19. #18
    RIP S3dave

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyteryda View Post
    Yep.. just need to get a few minor things sorted out now (slight engine oil leak/slight exhaust leak/ext fuel pump fitted) and then will be looking to have it mapped, i guess i just need to give you a call (bill) when the car is ready to see when you have a slot .. :-)

    ps is it worth fitting an r32 throttle body in conjunction with (already fitted) rmr manifold and agu head ?
    what spec is this engine?
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  20. #19
    Nyteryda

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    rmr manifold
    agu head
    82.5mm 8.5:1 pistons
    upgraded rods
    630cc injectors
    gt2871r

  21. #20
    RIP S3dave

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    what exhaust manifold and downpipe size?
    T25 manifold and internal gated turbo yea? what a/r hotside?
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  22. #21
    Nyteryda

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    i have a t25 top mount cast manifold sourced from the ttshop (iirc) and a ceramic coated 3" downpipe .. was just about to order the dp new from the ttshop for around £6-700 when a lightly used one popped up on ebay literally the same day for £120 delivered .. touch !

  23. #22
    Nyteryda

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    think its 0.64 hotside and 0.60 cold side

  24. #23
    Nyteryda

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    heres my latest log with the larger injectors being the only difference from the log above


    Group A: '002 Group B: '004 Group C: '006
    RPM Load Inj. On Time Mass Flow RPM Voltage Temperature Temperature RPM Load Temperature Lambda
    TIME TIME TIME
    Marker STAMP /min % ms g/s STAMP /min V °C °C STAMP /min % °C %
    0.82 1360 26.3 1.7 6.94 0.01 760 13.58 82 27 0.4 1000 27.8 27 -1.6
    2.22 1360 24.1 1.7 6.75 1.31 1600 13.58 82 27 1.71 1480 21.8 27 -1.6
    3.52 1280 76.7 5.1 19.19 2.62 1240 13.58 82 27 3.04 1280 35.3 27 -1.6
    4.74 1640 78.2 5.1 25.11 3.92 1440 13.58 82 28 4.33 1520 17.3 27 -1.6
    6.04 3680 106 6.8 83.64 5.15 2000 13.72 82 28 5.64 2840 89.5 27 -1.6
    7.26 3120 91.7 7.82 60.92 6.44 4640 13.72 81 27 6.85 3560 14.3 26 -1.6
    8.67 4520 168.4 18.36 159.72 7.66 3320 13.51 81 27 8.16 3840 126.3 27 -1.6
    9.87 6560 190.2 25.84 246.75 9.07 5240 13.44 81 28 9.47 5920 191.7 27 -1.6

  25. #24
    RIP S3dave

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    too short a log and odd blocks to log imho

    I usually look at 002,020,115 and 003,115,118, if looking for fueling things 001,031,118
    etc etc and 3rd or 4th gear pull 2krpm - 6krpm
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  26. #25
    Nyteryda

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    ok, its only my 2nd log so still experimenting :-)

    next time i'm out in the car i'll log those blocks you suggested.. when you say the duration is too short, how do you mean exactly ? use a longer gear or do repeated pulls ?

  27. #26
    <tuffty/>'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyteryda View Post
    ...when you say the duration is too short, how do you mean exactly ? use a longer gear or do repeated pulls ?
    ...this....

    Quote Originally Posted by badger5 View Post
    ... 3rd or 4th gear pull 2krpm - 6krpm
    That looks like you used 1st or 2nd gear... 3rd or 4th will give more data over the rev range... 200-500 rpm steps rather 1500 rpm steps as in your last one

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  28. #27
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    Shame you cant change the sample rate for whatever gear you use so you dont have to go breaking speed limits

  29. #28
    <tuffty/>'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superkarl View Post
    Shame you cant change the sample rate for whatever gear you use so you dont have to go breaking speed limits
    Its more the overall speed mate... logging multiple blocks slows data capture down quite a bit... you can go into the advanced blocks section and select individual params to log to get rid of the chuff... this speeds things up a bit but the faster logger I have ever seen id ME7Logger on NefMoto... its not for n00bs though..

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  30. #29
    Nyteryda

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    ah ok, cheers tufty .. i thought that was a 3rd gear pull but may well be wrong, will do some more anyway .. like superkarl says i was concentrating on my speed mostly and if any rozzers were lurking around. It seems quite hard to find a place thats 'safe' to do some 'testing', empty A road/Motorway slip-roads seem the best option, not many round here are flat though

  31. #30
    RIP S3dave

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    private roads - lol
    dyno's

    difficult otherwise to find stretch of road to explore revs in 3rd gear or above to 6krpm..
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  32. #31
    Nyteryda

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    yes it is difficult .. plenty of private roads round my way, but also plenty of speed-humps so a definite no-go unless you like flying !

 

 

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