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Thread: Stage 2 apr remap

  1. #1
    ollie2013uk's Avatar
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    Stage 2 apr remap

    Just had my s3 remapped at awesome. One word WOW!! Managed to blow off a boost pipe whilst leaving!!

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    Post some figures? Dyno run? ...................

    Sean
    Current: 2013 Audi A3 2.0 tdi s line 8V in black SD nav+ extras, E46 BMW M3, 1971 Volvo p1800, 2014 Ford transit sport 155ps ;-)

    Previous : Focus st 225 stage 1 (265 bhp and too much torque), 2002 audi s3 bam engine completely OEM, 2001 Audi a3 1.8 TQS 221bhp and about 20 other cars, majority civics ek4/ek9 and Bmw / Audi soot chucker's!

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    Ill post some figures when it's been run! Awesome didn't have time to do it today.

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    If possible post some VCDS logs so we can see and compare whats the remap doing
    Audi S3 AMK
    Relentless-Manifold, Relentless-3" downpipe decat, Forge 007 DV, autobahn88 TIP, K&N Panel filter, EBC yellowstuff brake pads, R32 ARB, Custom column dual gauge pod...waiting for a remap!

    For help/info/pricing on xs manifold and downpipe pm me (not affiliated, nor a reseller trader, just an enthusiast!)

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    Ahhh Awesome; Awesome by name, not by nature.



    Glad you're happy.
    I quite often say I'm going to do things.

    Then never do them.

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    Should have bought an A3 1.8T, fitted S2000 filter, fitted 710n, used R-Tech eh Jardo? Your positivity is outstanding
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  8. #7
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    Do one Sam!

    Do Awesome think they are so awesome that they can just tell customers "Oh yeah, we haven't really got time to dyno it today so ummm...here's your car back."

    If they haven't dyno'd it, how have they done any post map logging (or pre map for that matter) from a safety aspect to make sure the vehicles hardware matches the software they've provided.

    Shoddy service from Awesome there, they should have done the job properly or not at all...It's a stage 2 map, and stage 2 means custom mapping to suit the cars hardware. Not flash and forget...

    "I managed to blow a boost hose off leaving", riiiight so it was probably leaking all the way through the mapping and Awesome didn't know about this or think to rectify it before tuning your car? Sick work.

    PM coming your way Sam, there's something you need to know about it
    Last edited by 16Klappe; 16th June 2013 at 09:04.
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    I quite often say I'm going to do things.

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    Bit early for a rant on a Sunday isn't it?!
    Last edited by ollie2013uk; 16th June 2013 at 11:14.
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    Jardo does have a point. Except a stage 2 map is a flash map and not a custom one. But I'd still want a dyno even with a stage 1 map but I have been burnt before.
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  11. #10
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    Not really Ollie; but I would hugely suggest you take my post seriously.

    You currently have no ideas what your EGT's are, injector duty cycles, pump pressure, AFR.

    Just don't want to see a post in six weeks time with running issues and potential problems.

    Good on you for pushing your mods further, it's Awesome that I am unimpressed with; not you.

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    I quite often say I'm going to do things.

    Then never do them.

  12. #11
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    It's never too early or late in the day week or month for a jaardo rant! :-)

    and especially when he's right! I'm not going to ask how much it cost but I will tell you for approx £250 r tech do a custom stage 2 tiv map with before and after diagnostic and dyno power runs always with great results.

    Be interesting to see your results mate, and I suppose as long as your happy thats all that matters......

    Sean
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    Current: 2013 Audi A3 2.0 tdi s line 8V in black SD nav+ extras, E46 BMW M3, 1971 Volvo p1800, 2014 Ford transit sport 155ps ;-)

    Previous : Focus st 225 stage 1 (265 bhp and too much torque), 2002 audi s3 bam engine completely OEM, 2001 Audi a3 1.8 TQS 221bhp and about 20 other cars, majority civics ek4/ek9 and Bmw / Audi soot chucker's!

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    Thats why I asked for logs :P (not that I want to compare it with mine lol)
    Audi S3 AMK
    Relentless-Manifold, Relentless-3" downpipe decat, Forge 007 DV, autobahn88 TIP, K&N Panel filter, EBC yellowstuff brake pads, R32 ARB, Custom column dual gauge pod...waiting for a remap!

    For help/info/pricing on xs manifold and downpipe pm me (not affiliated, nor a reseller trader, just an enthusiast!)

  14. #13
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    Hello Guys,

    I have had a read through this thread.

    I can see people commenting on how we can do a remap with out doing any pre checks.

    Before we carry out any remap on any car, we always fault code read the car and then take the car on a road test prior to the remap.

    We know that the remap is 100% safe and makes the power, that is why APR are happy to offer a 30 day money back guarantee. APR have carried out 30,000 remaps on 1.8T engines since 2000 world wide.

    After we have burnt the remap onto the ECU we then take the car on a road test to ensure the car preforms as they should. Our technicians have enough experience to know weather the car is performing the way it should.

    Once the technician is back from the road test they will then check to see if there are any fault codes stored. Once the technician is happy only then he will give the key back.

    We did not have enough time to run the car on the rollers that is true,
    The power run will only be used to show a figure, it will not be used to carry out any diagnostic work unless we found a problem.

    You get people remapping cars at shows and events without even driving the cars.

    In this case the technician reported how well the car actually drove after the remap.
    The customer drove the car and a boost hose had popped off. This can happen on a standard car let alone a stage 2 remapped S3.

    I am not here to say x remap is better then y remap. We all know the quoted power figures and features and benefits.

    There is good mappers out there no doubt about that. All i can say to you guys is if you was to get an APR remap you will not be disappointed, you get what you pay for and with APR you get a safe reliable tuned car. People do not realise how much work goes into a APR remap. It all goes on behind the scenes.

    I have some development times from APR
    Average APR development times:
    Stage 1 - 3-6 weeks continuous work for version 1
    Stage 2 - 1-2 weeks continuous work for version 1
    Stage 2+ - 2-3 weeks continuous work for version 1
    KO4 - 3-6 weeks continuous work for version 1
    Stage 3 - 3-6 months! continuous work for version 1
    Stage 3+ - 1-3 months continuous work for version 1
    Now, once all of that is done, new versions from Stage 1 all the way to Stage 3+ are created from everything learned by developing version 1 for Stage 1 through 3+.

    Now if anybody has any questions please do not hesitate to contact me or any of the guys at Awesome, if I or any of the guys at Awesome cannot answer your questions I can get APR to answer them.

    I hope that that helps

    Thanks AwesomeHassan.
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  15. #14
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    LOL at 'we check for fault codes' and if there isnt any there isnt a problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by superkarl View Post
    LOL at 'we check for fault codes' and if there isnt any there isnt a problem.
    I have not said "if there is no fault codes, there is not a problem"
    A fault code check is a just a basic check before doing anything else.

    The technicians will take the car on a road test to ensure it drives the way it should.
    Last edited by AwesomeHassan; 18th June 2013 at 15:18.

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    Just out of curiosity - what mods need to be added to get to the appropriate stage map?

    Stage 1 - 3-6 weeks continuous work for version 1
    Stage 2 - 1-2 weeks continuous work for version 1
    Stage 2+ - 2-3 weeks continuous work for version 1
    KO4 - 3-6 weeks continuous work for version 1
    Stage 3 - 3-6 months! continuous work for version 1
    Stage 3+ - 1-3 months continuous work for version 1
    2000 S3 APY

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  18. #17
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    Do you check AFRs to ensure the car is fuelling ok? A tired fuel pump won't show a fault code on the ECU.
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  19. #18
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    I haven't got a problem "with" Awesome. Or APR's software.

    I just thought the service wasn't befitting of such a huge company, who I have had nothing but excellent service from in sales.

    The way tuners are remapping vehicles now has moved on; R Tech and Badger for instance offer a PROPER fault check both visually, physically and through VCDS before mapping a car. As well as extensive before and after logs.

    I hope Awesome may understand that customers are expecting more for their money these days, and that there will always be some gobby prick like myself on a forum ready to comment how things should an shouldn't be done.

    The OP should have at least had a print out if only to have shown his gains. That much is undeniable.

    I like Awesome, I like them a lot. Much much better than most companies in the VAG scene, which is why I was a little surprised at the lack of post map dynos.

    Whilst your software may be spot on; you can't be certain that the OP's car meets its requirements.

    I quite often say I'm going to do things.

    Then never do them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 16Klappe View Post
    Shoddy service from Awesome there, they should have done the job properly or not at all...It's a stage 2 map, and stage 2 means custom mapping to suit the cars hardware. Not flash and forget...
    I fail to see how not doing power runs at the same time as remapping the car is 'shoddy service'. The mapping we use is tried and tested and from the biggest VW / Audi tuner in the world! We trust APR's mapping completely and have no reason to have to do logs to 'validate' what's been put onto the ECU.

    Stage 2 does not mean custom mapping at all. Realistically looking at things, there is no real reason for custom mapping unless you are going crazy with hardware, and by that, I mean different injectors, larger air mass meter housing, hybrid or big turbo, or an extra large intercooler.

    Some tuners consider Stage 2 remapping custom, this is usually because they buy a cheap file in from 'XYZ tuning company' for their Stage 1, and have to tweak the timing, fueling and boost levels manually for their stage 2 as a way of validating the upgrade and the price of the upgrade to their customers.

    APR's Stage 2 mapping is done specifically to match a large bore downpipe and free-er flowing intake system.

    As Hassan mentioned, We do a VCDS scan to see if there are any fault codes or potential errors showing and road test the vehicle to ensure it drives as it should, with no issues. If any issues are apparent, then we would not continue with the mapping and would request further time to investigate said issues.

    At the end of the day, The customer in question has come on here, more than happy with his remap! I'm sure his opinion of how he felt our service was is much more valid than that of someone who was not even involved.

    I think it may be time for us to ask the guys at APR come across and post for a more in-depth idea of what their mapping is all about. With APR, Panic about Exhaust gas Temps and duty cycles is not required! All stock safety parameters are kept in position which allow the ECU to 'self protect' the engine should anything happen untoward that pushes any of these figures outside of their safe levels.

    Quote Originally Posted by superkarl View Post
    LOL at 'we check for fault codes' and if there isnt any there isnt a problem.
    That's not exactly what Hassan said there is it??
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  21. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by 16Klappe View Post

    I hope Awesome may understand that customers are expecting more for their money these days
    its not just the bang for buck factor though is it, whilst you do get better and more thorough service from true tuners elsewhere, the big 'VAG specialists' still think this is credible:
    Quote Originally Posted by AwesomeHassan View Post
    APR have carried out 30,000 remaps on 1.8T engines since 2000 world wide.
    it means absolutely jack **** on 10+ year old cars, absolutely nothing at all!
    its not about bang for buck, or who sold the most with as many smiles, its about doing a proper job on ageing cars with varying spec and stages of health.

    And still 'Big' names have no idea on the sort of data that tuners like Bill and Nicki are looking at.

    Its annoying. And ignorant
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  22. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by AwesomeAl View Post

    I think it may be time for us to ask the guys at APR come across and post for a more in-depth idea of what their mapping is all about. With APR, Panic about Exhaust gas Temps and duty cycles is not required! All stock safety parameters are kept in position which allow the ECU to 'self protect' the engine should anything happen untoward that pushes any of these figures outside of their safe levels.
    i wont try and argue, because as you say a customer has driven away happy with whatever he received. That is not our point.
    And the quote above really isnt necessary, and shows how you clearly dont know what we as consumers are getting at, which is... Since when are all cars the same, in the same state of health, when they arent fresh from the factory or a couple of years old.

    It may come across as extremely critical of you, and whilst it is to an extent, we dont mean disrespect, but we who are quite well informed of our cars, know what we want and require when it comes to mapping, that is all. So 'simpler' cases of the OP going to yourselves for basic services is obviously ok to those who arent as well informed on how things work.

  23. #22
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    Mind you I suppose we should spend twenty minutes strapping it on the rollers then getting the car up to temp and logging Egt's boost actual and specified fuelling actual and specified, oh full engine check over for boost hoses, DV check, and throw in a turbo inspection for good measure, thus resulting in maybe a few hours of inspection work to check everything and get this right.

    I'm sure every other Tuner out there does this, If anybody is going to GTI international this year just watch how REVO do it, they dont even drive the car car before hand, this i know for defo as i have may times mapped directly with the Guys, also JBS have for many years with Custom Code at GTI international done a straight map flash, so both REVO and Custom Code cars are run straight down the strip ? So your questioning AWESOME when Software providers mapping directly are not even road testing cars and then straight down the 1/4 mile drag strip.

    I am not in anyway slating REVO or Custom Code product everybody knows we enjoyed a good relationship with REVO, however its a fact that this takes place, there are also hundreds of people doing remaps across the country how many in this country has a Dyno ?


    I am merely making a point here that you say your not impressed with Awesome yet the customer with the car is over the moon and happy.

    If the customer has any concerns then please contact me directly on 0161 776077 and also 16Klappe if you would like to ring me and discuss any of the above personally with myself and explain why your unimpressed with Awesome please do.

    It's Good to talk

    Regards Mark Ash (Director) Awesome
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  24. #23
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    Yeah smoke it Karl...
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    This is the reason I'm deciding between R-Tech and Badger5, Awesome are always quick to jump on the keyboard.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stuart_tate41 View Post
    This is the reason I'm deciding between R-Tech and Badger5, Awesome are always quick to jump on the keyboard.
    Unfortunately because of the way people jump on the bandwagon on car forums, we often have to justify ourselves.
    What kind of a company would we be if we simply ignored customers complaints / issues?

    We find when threads get out of hand like this, we have to climb up behind the keyboard and inform people as to the reason why we chose to do certain things the way we do. We don't just roll over or let things pass when someone has their wires crossed.
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  27. #26
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    As customers you should be accepting our points and working with us, not arguing.

    The customer in question clearly didn't do his research and doesn't know any better. Call the customer, ask him to book in for a FOC rolling road session (which should have been done a week ago), do something constructive with our criticism.

    You will get more business off the back of this thread if you handle it properly than I will cost you from criticising your process.
    I quite often say I'm going to do things.

    Then never do them.

  28. #27
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    Wasnt the customer HAPPY Jardo...

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    thats a ****ing big tuna!
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  30. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by superkarl View Post
    thats a ****ing big tuna!
    I think that's worth more than my S3! haha
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  31. #30
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    I thought it was a pretty cool picture for hooking a big fish

    I like Awesome, always have. I hope the comments in this thread can help to offer a better level of service, they can say I should **** off and mind my own business if they want.

    It was just a bit of constructive criticism meant to help a fellow ASN member

    I quite often say I'm going to do things.

    Then never do them.

  32. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by stuart_tate41 View Post
    This is the reason I'm deciding between R-Tech and Badger5, Awesome are always quick to jump on the keyboard.
    I joined in 2007 and have made 7 posts myself

    edited from 2010 to 2007 lol
    Last edited by AwesomeMark; 18th June 2013 at 17:15.

  33. #32
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    I would love to discuss customers concerns and issues especially concerning our level of service, to be honest i dont actually like posting due to it never stops and always turns into a battle and never rarely does any good come from it, i would much prefer someone pick up the phone and discuss it directly, like i said its good to talk but i would prefer to talk to someone other than a screen, its like text messages, i'm always in trouble with my lady for the way i put things across lol, listen guys honestly if anycustomer wants to pop in or phone to discuss the above please do i will always make myself available to listen.

    Regards mark

  34. #33
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    Next time I speak with Awesome it will be to order more bits off them.

    You've still got my business for sales, due to the excellent service I have received from your sales team. They sure know their stuff.

    Thanks for the reply, as you say it is good to talk.
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    I quite often say I'm going to do things.

    Then never do them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AwesomeMark View Post
    I joined in 2010 and have made 7 posts myself
    Mark I sense that was I smidgen aggressive, I'm a member on other forums as well namely UK-Mkivs so I've seen it before on other threads. To do with mapping / servicing / delivery etc. etc.

    All I'm saying you don't see the company's I mentioned having to defend there customer service..... (Even though the customers is happy in this case) I think it would be very easy to forget that customers are your foundation and if I was told after a stage map that 'there wasn't time for a dyno run' I wouldn't be signing your praises.

  36. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by stuart_tate41 View Post
    Mark I sense that was I smidgen aggressive, I'm a member on other forums as well namely UK-Mkivs so I've seen it before on other threads. To do with mapping / servicing / delivery etc. etc.

    All I'm saying you don't see the company's I mentioned having to defend there customer service..... (Even though the customers is happy in this case) I think it would be very easy to forget that customers are your foundation and if I was told after a stage map that 'there wasn't time for a dyno run' I wouldn't be signing your praises.

    can i just say that the customer was fully aware that he was coming in for a map only and no rolling road, he will or could verify this himself

    Regards mark

  37. #36
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    the reason i have come on here and do occasionally is customers like to see a response, we are sometimes stretched and are not able to fulfil all our customers needs on forums as we like to put back into the scene and support forums with cash for advertising.

    I have seen so many threads where people say that oh i notice that xyz tuner is coming on and responding, well this just goes to show that we do...you ask why, well its simple AWESOME does care, everybody who works here has a passion for Vag and when we get people disappointed yes it hurts us.

    I will bow out now but please like i said lets not make this a bad thread as it started positive from a very excited Awesome/APR customer.

    my number is 0161 7760777 should anybody like to carry this on personally.

    Its a hot day lets all enjoy it.

    Ps we do listen we do love our customers and yes sometimes we get a bit defensive but who wouldnt.....only them that do not CARE

    Regards Mark

  38. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by AwesomeMark View Post
    the reason i have come on here and do occasionally is customers like to see a response, we are sometimes stretched and are not able to fulfil all our customers needs on forums as we like to put back into the scene and support forums with cash for advertising.

    I have seen so many threads where people say that oh i notice that xyz tuner is coming on and responding, well this just goes to show that we do...you ask why, well its simple AWESOME does care, everybody who works here has a passion for Vag and when we get people disappointed yes it hurts us.

    I will bow out now but please like i said lets not make this a bad thread as it started positive from a very excited Awesome/APR customer.

    my number is 0161 7760777 should anybody like to carry this on personally.

    Its a hot day lets all enjoy it.

    Ps we do listen we do love our customers and yes sometimes we get a bit defensive but who wouldnt.....only them that do not CARE

    Regards Mark
    What a MASSIVE lie.....it's not a hot day down here so I cant enjoy it


    In all seriousness- fair play to replying to the comments....Jardo and Karl aren't the easiest people to please- but sounds like the customer is pleased with his results which is what matters.

    Never had any work done by yourselves - but I have had work done at another large respected VAG tuner/garage who also takes a massive bashing for the work they do and have done with modifying and RR figures (no prizes for guessing who that is! lol)

    ps - please bring back free delivery :D lol
    2000 S3 APY

    18" BBS RSII with Michelin PS3s, 20mm H&R adapters, Relentless 3" DP and Sports cat, B5 V1 induction kit, cone filter+heat shield, Forge 007P, Awesome GTI SMF, AP coilovers, Facelift rear lights, Full Powerflex poly bush kit, R32 Rear ARB, SAI delete, N249 by-pass, Upgraded Engine mounts with Polytek, Stage 1 CC at Badger 5.

  39. #38
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    Kwistof I cant believe your from South East Kent and your saying its not a nice day i would have thought kent would be basking in Hot sunshine

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    Quote Originally Posted by AwesomeMark View Post
    Kwistof I cant believe your from South East Kent and your saying its not a nice day i would have thought kent would be basking in Hot sunshine
    It was this morning Mark...was lovely weather as I drove to work...

    Then it seems like you Northerners have stolen it from us lol
    2000 S3 APY

    18" BBS RSII with Michelin PS3s, 20mm H&R adapters, Relentless 3" DP and Sports cat, B5 V1 induction kit, cone filter+heat shield, Forge 007P, Awesome GTI SMF, AP coilovers, Facelift rear lights, Full Powerflex poly bush kit, R32 Rear ARB, SAI delete, N249 by-pass, Upgraded Engine mounts with Polytek, Stage 1 CC at Badger 5.

  41. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by AwesomeMark View Post
    Mind you I suppose we should spend twenty minutes strapping it on the rollers then getting the car up to temp and logging Egt's boost actual and specified fuelling actual and specified, oh full engine check over for boost hoses, DV check, and throw in a turbo inspection for good measure, thus resulting in maybe a few hours of inspection work to check everything and get this right.

    Regards Mark Ash (Director) Awesome
    In respect to the above mark

    Yes you should.... I most certainly do all the above on EVERY remap I do. (including smoke test which is test #1 for us)

    1.8t's are old cars now, and they often have many issues which road tests will not reveal.
    Often cars come in for remap, get smoke test as job #1, and then the rest of the day is spent fixing copious amounts of leaks and ordering parts to recifty the rotted and split PCV vac pipes... and remap does'nt happen at all.

    As I said, old cars now... they have their issues in their age, much like us old buggers trying to tune them, LOL
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