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Thread: haldex vs fwd.....

  1. #41
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    I hope they sell popcorn at these race circuits because I don't think I'll be able to bring enough
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    Quote Originally Posted by 16Klappe View Post
    I never questioned Prawns speed, I commented on how much quicker my FWD A3 was than every Haldex S3 on the track at the same time.

    And given the distance shown in the video by less than a lap, I think the advantages of a light weight car with FWD are quite nicely shown
    yeah i just re-read the entire thread, my apologies. Still this is an age old argument that can be ended with.............F1.RWD, Top fuel Drag.RWD,Drift.RWD, INDYCAR.RWD...Most car motorsports.RWD. LOL

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    You must be new. Questioning Jardo isn't advised...
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    Especially when quoting things I never said haha.
    I quite often say I'm going to do things.

    Then never do them.

  6. #45
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    Sooooo........

    Quote Originally Posted by <tuffty/> View Post
    Prawns track car would own the average S3...
    Quote Originally Posted by 16Klappe View Post
    Prawn very rarely uses full boost and power because there just isn't any need. So as he is the most powerful fwd man on this forum as well as the quickest we should follow his lead.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paradox1 View Post
    nothing on prawns level.
    Quote Originally Posted by 16Klappe View Post
    Prawn passed me coming through Avon Rise on the second lap
    Quote Originally Posted by 16Klappe View Post
    At ADI 2011 Prawn rinsed a full fat Bumble with 190bhp...haha
    Quote Originally Posted by Paradox1 View Post
    nobody could touch prawn on the track at ADI???
    Quote Originally Posted by s3dave View Post
    apart from Prawns
    Quote Originally Posted by superkarl View Post
    TPrawn rinsed everyone because of his ability, experience, car.







    If youre a good driver, im talking track driving ability, know how to manage throttle and adapt to your car, ala prawn,
    Quote Originally Posted by <tuffty/> View Post

    FWD...


    Quote Originally Posted by 16Klappe View Post

    THATS the difference between Prawn and I; experience.
    Quote Originally Posted by 16Klappe View Post

    Eclipsed by Prawns 190bhp fury.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sam_ View Post
    Prawns obviously got more balls/skills than the guys there
    Quote Originally Posted by superkarl View Post
    get wasted by prawn, and then thats it
    Quote Originally Posted by 16Klappe View Post
    Prawn mullered the entire field in the time it took him to get from Jo to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jason.s View Post
    Prawn is coming too.
    Quote Originally Posted by 16Klappe View Post
    I never questioned Prawns speed
    Whilst we may never get to the bottom of the FWD vs 4WD debate, I think we have all learnt one important thing today.

    Regardless of your preference for driven wheels, this Prawn chap sounds pretty awesome
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  7. #46
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    Who is this Prawn chap?

    I think he needs to get in an S3 with a similar bhp/tonne and prove it's the driver and not the car ;-)
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  8. #47
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    Prawn can never sell his A3, otherwise Jardo is f**ked in an argument
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  9. #48
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    Boring!

    We can't keep bloody comparing prawns car to everything, it's as far from a standard car as possible.

    I want to see an S3 taken to the same extremes as Prawns A3 and then people might just realise how capable an S3 can be

    Anyway, personally, I drive my S3 and my GFs sh1tty corsa regularly and obvious power differences aside, Quattro is daddy in the crappy weather we have in the UK.
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    is he the one off district 9?? can fly a space ship you know

  11. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by [Dave B] View Post
    Prawn can never sell his A3, otherwise Jardo is f**ked in an argument
    I knew it wouldn't be long until the king of uninformed and irrelevant throw away comments came along! Welcome to the fray, lovely to see you.



    Read the thread Fred

    We are comparing my car to everything at the moment; seeing as it is exactly what Marty wants.

    Honest and unbiased question and answers -

    For a smart daily driver and fast weekend track/airfield toy.

    Stage 2 S3 or a stage 2 A3.

    HONESTLY which one do you think would be the most efficient and effective car to own.
    I quite often say I'm going to do things.

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  12. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwistof View Post
    I hope they sell popcorn at these race circuits because I don't think I'll be able to bring enough
    Looking at the awesome skill or someone binning it trying to prove a point...

  13. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by 16Klappe View Post
    Read the thread Fred

    We are comparing my car to everything at the moment; seeing as it is exactly what Marty wants.
    Oh ok, so it had nothing to do with the title of this thread

    Go and PM each other then instead of spamming this forum with useless crap that just causes arguments
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  14. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by s3dave View Post
    Looking at the awesome skill or someone binning it trying to prove a point...
    I hope I see a bit off both....

    I expect I will see a few showing off some awesome skills and some pillock attempting to follow them which will only end in disaster. As long as no one gets hurt and everyone respects each other on and off the track; then it's all fun and games in my books
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  15. #54
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    Not got an answer to my question then Westy? This thread isn't off track, it just needs to be more impersonal.

    -

    The ONLY benefit for Marty in having the S3 is AWD. But you are losing running costs, maintenence costs, parts and tunig costs, tax and insurance costs, initial purchase costs, power to weight, braking efficiency, as well as over all vehicle balance.

    Marty wants an easy to manage, smart daily driver which he can use for more sporting activities at the weekend.

    A FWD A3 has every base covered for all the reasons I have listed above. And the saving over an S3 can buy him a diff and rebuilt 02J,will counter the S3's traction disadvantage and enhance every benefit of picking the lighter 2WD car.

    If Marty said he wanted a nice, smart dependable car that he could tune up and have as a great daily driver then I would say he needs an S3. But that isn't what he wants is it...And it isn't what his last car was either.

    Totally unbiased opinion; if the S3 was better for what Marty wants I would tell him to get one. But it just isn't.
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  16. #55
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    Marty already owns an A3 with a VW badge on the front so there's no point him buying a new car. Job done. Close the thread
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  17. #56
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    Katrina has been written off

    Katrina was his baby and he loved it to bits, he doesn't want another Golf for obvious reasons.

    So why not restart with a better built and lighter version or what he knows and loves.
    I quite often say I'm going to do things.

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  18. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Westy View Post
    Boring!

    We can't keep bloody comparing prawns car to everything, it's as far from a standard car as possible.

    I want to see an S3 taken to the same extremes as Prawns A3 and then people might just realise how capable an S3 can be
    this! Although, in fairness, at the time it was fairly simple compared to how it is now.

    I really want to see an s3 done well. Someone get on with it please!
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  19. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prawn View Post
    this! Although, in fairness, at the time it was fairly simple compared to how it is now.

    I really want to see an s3 done well. Someone get on with it please!
    Buy one?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Prawn View Post

    I really want to see an s3 done well. Someone get on with it please!
    Give me a year and I'll have a 200k+ S3 that will become my toy I expect.

    Also helps that a couple of my mates have very recently purchased VAG cars, so instead of them chatting Jap Crap we can actually get on with VAG stuff for a change :D
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  21. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottB5 View Post
    Buy one?
    go and read all 98 pages of my build thread then ask yourself if I'd really want to go through it all again
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  22. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by 16Klappe View Post
    Katrina has been written off

    Katrina was his baby and he loved it to bits, he doesn't want another Golf for obvious reasons.

    So why not restart with a better built and lighter version or what he knows and loves.
    In which case, Marty needs to go and drive both cars so he can make his own mind up.
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  23. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prawn View Post
    go and read all 98 pages of my build thread then ask yourself if I'd really want to go through it all again
    True but it would be interesting to see.
    All your bits from a FWD A3 to a Haldex A3.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Prawn View Post
    this! Although, in fairness, at the time it was fairly simple compared to how it is now.

    I really want to see an s3 done well. Someone get on with it please!
    I'm getting there, just no cage. Fairly comprehensive suspension spec though
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    What I don't get is, if the A3 is so awesome, why do A3 owners feel the need to fit many of the S3 parts? I've always been of the mind that if you're going to tinker, start with a good base. For me it's more about just the badge, with S cars you just get better all round bits and bobs.

    This will never end.

    What's so good about the 02J? Many of the big power S3s (Greece etc) still run 02Ms?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottB5 View Post
    True but it would be interesting to see.
    All your bits from a FWD A3 to a Haldex A3.
    One thing that would definitely happen is his WHP would be dramatically decrease thanks to the Haldex

  27. #66
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    The ratios are shocking, the price of a diff for FWDs is incredible, and they cost four times as much as an 02J when they do break.

    With the excellent torque that our cars have the longer gears of an 02J is a massive benefit; ESPECIALLY on a track.

    Less gear changes, more time focusing on your entry and exit.

    We fit S3 parts to upgrade our A3's. Simple as that.

    S3's NEED the corrective hubs and lower arms, to counter act their weight.

    Fit those upgraded parts to an A3 and you have all the benefits of an S3 suspension setup with even better characteristics.

    The S badge holds no snobbery any more; ever since they ruined it with the S-line range; and now that S3's are worth the same sort of money as an A3 it helps.

    If this argument was LCR vs S3 you would all be mental to question the LCR's superiority. So why is an A3 with LCR suspension any lesser of a car? *head scratching*
    Last edited by 16Klappe; 12th June 2013 at 15:32.
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  28. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam_ View Post
    What I don't get is, if the A3 is so awesome, why do A3 owners feel the need to fit many of the S3 parts? I've always been of the mind that if you're going to tinker, start with a good base. For me it's more about just the badge, with S cars you just get better all round bits and bobs.

    This will never end.

    What's so good about the 02J? Many of the big power S3s (Greece etc) still run 02Ms?
    02M is a stronger gearbox fo sho... a lot of people use derv final drives and ratios when running high power... SQS gearsets are also an option of course... flip side is 02M being a heavy old lump...

    The ratio discussion is only relevant if using std gearsets... a lot of the R32 turbo boys run derv ratios in their boxes, final drives (two on an 02M) being the biggest differences...

    02J's aren't fans of high power/high torque setups... recently fitted an SQS 02J to the Mk2 Golf track car over at Bill's (its awesome) so now at least stands a chance

    <tuffty/>
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  29. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam_ View Post

    What's so good about the 02J? Many of the big power S3s (Greece etc) still run 02Ms?
    it breaks a lot, so you get REALLY good at changing gearboxes and clutches.

    That's a good thing, right?

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  30. #69
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    Oh yeah, clutches.

    02J with £60 worth of VR6 clutch...heaven....
    I quite often say I'm going to do things.

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  31. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by 16Klappe View Post


    S3's NEED the corrective hubs and lower arms, to counter act their weight.

    Fit those upgraded parts to an A3 and you have all the benefits of an S3 suspension setup with even better characteristics.
    Nope, independent rear suspension is where its at.... whats corrective hubs? we dont need them?
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  32. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by 16Klappe View Post
    The S badge holds no snobbery any more; ever since they ruined it with the S-line range; and now that S3's are worth the same sort of money as an A3 it helps.
    I agree they have ruined it with the S-line range, however that has nothing to do with our model of car as S-line was not even available on our model.... but come on Jardo....

    S3's aren't the same sort of money as an A3.... £900 will get you an A3 1.8t and £2200 will get you an S3 8L on autotrader as the two cheapest examples....hardly the same money fella?
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  33. #72
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    Not talking standard here are we....

    For what Marty wants he will be paying £2/2500 for an A3, so he could either buy an all singing all dancing A3 (like mine) for £2500 which would be all S3 front end and totally ready for daily driving, track work, airfield days. EXACTLY what he wants.

    Or he could take a chance and buy a standard S3 and spend the same again making it handle like it should. Then he would need to spend £1500 to make it go as well as the A3.

    Not counting for the prior prep work needed to tune a £2500 S3.
    The maths are hugely in my favour...

    We didn't know Jimmy Saville was a kiddie fiddler at the time...Now we do and nobody respects him. Your point?
    Last edited by 16Klappe; 12th June 2013 at 16:16.
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  34. #73
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    Can we please get back to how awesome I am? I prefered the thread then.

    I built my A3 not because I set out to build the worlds greatest FWD track car on purpose to shun S3's, but because I wanted a bit of a laugh, with something I already had sat on my drive. it just evolved from there.

    Would it be better if I'd started with an S3? lets not kid ourselves here, probably, yes!

    better enough to make it worth the heartache of a reshell or a new build at this stage? probably not.

    playing the underdog is half the fun, but I really would love to drive a well sorted S3 on track. I had the chance at Combe last year, but the bloody thing broke in the session before I was due to take it out!
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  35. #74
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    Sorry, but it wasn't clear in your statement that we are now comparing modified A3s with unknown upgrades and mods side by side to a standard S3. Have you also just your car for £2550 ;-) haha

    I thought we were starting with base cars that would be completely standard? I mean I'm not sure what Marty is after- but would you buy a modified car or would you want to do the mods yourself?

    Anyway...YOU may have not known Jimmy Saville was a kiddie fiddler at the time.....but some of us may have
    16Klappe likes this.
    2000 S3 APY

    18" BBS RSII with Michelin PS3s, 20mm H&R adapters, Relentless 3" DP and Sports cat, B5 V1 induction kit, cone filter+heat shield, Forge 007P, Awesome GTI SMF, AP coilovers, Facelift rear lights, Full Powerflex poly bush kit, R32 Rear ARB, SAI delete, N249 by-pass, Upgraded Engine mounts with Polytek, Stage 1 CC at Badger 5.

  36. #75
    kwistof's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prawn View Post

    Would it be better if I'd started with an S3? lets not kid ourselves here, probably, yes!
    Fair play for that comment - takes a lot to say that!
    2000 S3 APY

    18" BBS RSII with Michelin PS3s, 20mm H&R adapters, Relentless 3" DP and Sports cat, B5 V1 induction kit, cone filter+heat shield, Forge 007P, Awesome GTI SMF, AP coilovers, Facelift rear lights, Full Powerflex poly bush kit, R32 Rear ARB, SAI delete, N249 by-pass, Upgraded Engine mounts with Polytek, Stage 1 CC at Badger 5.

  37. #76
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    Long time lurker here.........

    I lol'd a lot at this thread!

    People obviously big up what they personally own, so the fwd boys say buy fwd, and the awd drive boys say buy awd........ That was always going to happen!

    As for the whole track day 'I rinsed everyone' statements, did you know anyone else in the s3's? Where they trying to keep up? Do they have anywhere near the power you have? Do they even care or where they just having fun in their own car? Seriously, from the outside looking in your statements are on par with 'smoked an enzo of the lights last night, my car is clearly faster than a Ferrari' very delusional!

    But back on topic, drive both and see what you personally prefer, forums usually give opinions not advice when it comes to what is better, and your own opinion might differ a lot from what you read on the Internet
    superkarl likes this.

  38. #77
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    1.Prawns amazing
    2. I've owned both, still got my S3 and I love it. I enjoyed the A3 but nowhere near as much as the s3. And when it snows which it does a lot on Dartmoor its fricking awesome, unlike my a3 when I'd have to cadge a lift from my wife
    3. Jardo, I love you like a brother from another mother but £2.5k? Really?

    So in summary, S3 FTW Especially if its driven by Jardo, I mean Prawn
    S3 Rav likes this.
    Badger 5 tuned 340 bhp / 350 lbft sleeper

  39. #78
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    ive driven both, in standard form, and having driven prob 10k cars in 20 yrs (yes very poss as most garages write out 1000 job cards a year and almost all are road tested) i can safely say that quattro 'feels' surer footed in the corners, ive got a sorted mk5 golf and although that drives the eyes out the back of your head i can corner safer in my A3

    Ok question for Jardo, your A3 is lighter than mine, you are use to your car, So can you tell me why i was able to OUT CORNER you and leave you for dead on the straights last thrusday? i HAVE to add Jardo runs 312s and i run 288s, so my brakes arent as good, PLEASE dont claim you werent trying, you had BRAKE FADE which tells me you were trying your hardest to keep up

    anyway it makes no difference if its quattro or Fwd, there is always a faster, lighter, built cheaper, car that will hand you your arse on a plate, whats the point in bill big ********??????

    Prawns car is very very quick, i can think of 3 cars within 10 miles of me now that would destroy it with ease and all cost less than 20k and all have less power, my point is, there is always someone faster just around the corner

    disclaimer' PRAWN im not having a go at you, your car had been mentioned so many times i thought it a car everyone can relate to

    And lets face it in the grand picture, 300 odd bhp isnt a massive amount for 1400 kgs is it
    s3dave, superkarl, Jason.s and 2 others like this.
    ​Wish Rachel would let me have my TDI mk5 back


  40. #79
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    Sorry bro.
    I quite often say I'm going to do things.

    Then never do them.

  41. #80
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    Just settle this like real men! Come to inters and get on the strip lol. Prawns going to try and represent the FWD class a little better than he did last year
    16Klappe likes this.

    Cactus green 8L S3 - B5 TIP + Jetex, Revised 007p, R32 rear ARB, AP Coilovers, Compbrake rear arms, Full Powerflexed dogbone.

 

 
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