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Thread: K04-064 Tfsi turbo to 1.8 20vt engine

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    K04-064 Tfsi turbo to 1.8 20vt engine

    Hello mate's!After a discussion with Klappe16 at another forum prompt me here to saw you our project with K04-064 turbo from (S3 8p-edition 30-leon cupra) to 20vt engine!
    Here is the turbo on the table ready to fit in a 20vt engine!We have made it bolt on with some changes at manifold!It seems like OEM





    Installed on car(from polo gti with BJX engine but is the same view at a BAM too)



    Here is the engine bay how it look after is being intalled



    This turbo really works with stock or with aftermarket internals!With stock engine we have saw with safe boost pressure about 340 bhp and with internal about 380-390 bhp!
    Now we work at an Audi S3 with BAM engine code that has a Hybrid K04-064 turbo from LOBA motorsport L04xx
    More pics coming soon with dyno diagrams if you really want
    Last edited by Nick_mk2; 10th June 2013 at 17:47.
    NHN, 16Klappe, s3dave and 3 others like this.

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    Very nice work.
    Really clean looking.

    Did you want the 8L section?

    If so ask one of the mods to move it there.

    Loba do make some very nice stuff.

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    Thanks mate..Yeah we also work at a golf mk5 edition 30 with loba LO4xx! I didn't realized that i post at 8L i wanted at 8p but...
    Please any mod move this post at 8L section!

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    Good to see you Nick I'll get the thread moved for you.

    This forum rocks for technical, tuning and performance questions.
    I quite often say I'm going to do things.

    Then never do them.

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    That is awesome. So how hard was it to fit? How does the hotside boost pipe run?
    Driving the most secretive S3 on ASN

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    Looks like they have welded the manifold to a 20v flange... should also mention that looks like a front wheel drive car too... DP may well be a challenge on a quattro with that configuration of turbo...

    Mk5 chassis has provision for the DP to run the opposite side of the tunnel to the 8L... gear change cables maybe an issue... not insurmountable of course... but tight

    The compressor in the TFSI K04 is the 2283 wheel as used in Prawns, Welly's and Bill's Lupo hybrids to name a few..

    <tuffty/>
    16Klappe likes this.
    Silver 2001 AMK S3. Silver alcantara interior... now with added powarrrrrrrr, torques. VAGCOM + KII-USB. >> My build thread...

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    This guy really knows his stuff, got talking to him on a local forum and told him he had to join here. Once he gets back online and finds the thread again he will almost certainly give all the details.

    His own car is a 285bhp K04 Mk2.
    I quite often say I'm going to do things.

    Then never do them.

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    I like this an awful lot. Very impressive!
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Prawns TFSI Turbo'd 1.8T Track Car

    But I know nothing so ignore me.

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    To be fair, if you can fit a KR valver head to a TFSI bottom end then then this is not exactly rocket science...VAG are the laziest buggers in the world when it comes to making major design changes to stuff... testament to this of course is that you can wang a TFSI engine and DSG gearbox into a mk1 Golf if you have the time and motivation...

    The TFSI is a simple evolution of the 20v engine which of course is an evolution of the valver...

    This is why I like working on VAG group cars :D

    <tuffty/>
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    Charge pipe most likely runs a similar route to the TFSI and coincidently K03 turbo'd 20v's...

    <tuffty/>
    Silver 2001 AMK S3. Silver alcantara interior... now with added powarrrrrrrr, torques. VAGCOM + KII-USB. >> My build thread...

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    What I like about this setup is it is OEM to fk.

    Change all those hoses to black and use some of the clips PT has and you're onto a total winner. K04's can be had for £400 now, low boost 270bhp; a lot of work but no reason why you can't have GT28 power for the same price (once manifolds are factored in) with an instant spool and an OEM drive.

    Cooler than polar sex.
    I quite often say I'm going to do things.

    Then never do them.

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    <tuffty/>'s Avatar
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    No denying its potential as long as people realise there is a degree of fabrication involved and that this is not a bolt on solution like a K04 hybrid... this is similar to a BT build in many respects... fabrication can add up vs off the shelf bolt on solutions.... worth a punt if you have the skills or don't mind shelling out for something a little different...

    <tuffty/>
    Silver 2001 AMK S3. Silver alcantara interior... now with added powarrrrrrrr, torques. VAGCOM + KII-USB. >> My build thread...

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    Yeah the turbo that you see fitted i saw that is from a bjx polo 20vt!
    Here is from the S3.This photo is with an adapter from turbo manifold to the head!This is before we make custom flange for the manifold in order not to use adapter and be like oem!There is no problem with the cables of gearbox or quatro


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    Quote Originally Posted by <tuffty/> View Post
    To be fair, if you can fit a KR valver head to a TFSI bottom end then then this is not exactly rocket science...VAG are the laziest buggers in the world when it comes to making major design changes to stuff... testament to this of course is that you can wang a TFSI engine and DSG gearbox into a mk1 Golf if you have the time and motivation...

    The TFSI is a simple evolution of the 20v engine which of course is an evolution of the valver...

    This is why I like working on VAG group cars :D

    <tuffty/>
    Yeah i love vag cars!Everything can be made if you have your brain works and people to work with!This turbo works so well with 20vt engine and is value for money!

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    How are intake temps on the TFSI set up like that? There has got to be a lot of heat transfer with the inlet and exhaust ports an inch away from each other.

    Is the stock TFSI set up shielded between the too? I have done an intake pipe and induction kit on a TFSI K03 and seem to remember some sort of deflector shield?
    I quite often say I'm going to do things.

    Then never do them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 16Klappe View Post
    What I like about this setup is it is OEM to fk.

    Change all those hoses to black and use some of the clips PT has and you're onto a total winner. K04's can be had for £400 now, low boost 270bhp; a lot of work but no reason why you can't have GT28 power for the same price (once manifolds are factored in) with an instant spool and an OEM drive.

    Cooler than polar sex.
    Low cost with many bhp!The polo is with stock internals 340 bhp and has full boost from 3100rpm!With another turbo like gt28rs you will not have full boost from those rmp!Also K04 has power until 7000 rpm!So from 3100rpm until 7000rpm you have really good power!With 400-450 pounds as you said you buy a turbo like this and with some pounds more we can make it bolt on to every 20vt!Daily driven solution with power and low cost than a BT setup.
    Last edited by Nick_mk2; 10th June 2013 at 22:05.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 16Klappe View Post
    How are intake temps on the TFSI set up like that? There has got to be a lot of heat transfer with the inlet and exhaust ports an inch away from each other.

    Is the stock TFSI set up shielded between the too? I have done an intake pipe and induction kit on a TFSI K03 and seem to remember some sort of deflector shield?
    No there is no deflector shield even at TFSI..There is no so much heat transfer as you think!We use a custom Intecooler kit and 3" intake!
    16Klappe likes this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by <tuffty/> View Post
    No denying its potential as long as people realise there is a degree of fabrication involved and that this is not a bolt on solution like a K04 hybrid... this is similar to a BT build in many respects... fabrication can add up vs off the shelf bolt on solutions.... worth a punt if you have the skills or don't mind shelling out for something a little different...

    <tuffty/>
    Believe me is a peace of cake to install a K04-064 turbo to 20vt engine!We have install until now in more than 10 cars...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick_mk2 View Post
    Low cost with many bhp!The polo is with stock internals 340 bhp and has full boost from 3100rpm!With another turbo like gt28rs you will not have full boost from those rmp!Also K04 has power until 7000 rpm!So from 3100rpm until 7000rpm you have really good power!With 400-450 as you said you buy a turbo like this and with some pounds more we can make it bolt on to every 20vt!Daily driven solution with power and low cost than a BT setup.
    Stock internals on 10year old 20v's are not as sturdy as you make out... 20v Polo's were quite late on IIRC... 2005 or so on? would be 19mm pinned crack rods and tangless bearings... not the most sound bottom end to build a 340hp monster on lol

    Anyhoo... I would like to point out that
    ...with some pounds more we can make it bolt on to every 20vt!...
    could be interpreted as 'advertising' which of course as a new member you would know is against the rules so lets just keep this thread informational only shall we

    Interesting project though... 2.5" down pipe though? have you tried getting a 3" DP in there?

    <tuffty/>
    Silver 2001 AMK S3. Silver alcantara interior... now with added powarrrrrrrr, torques. VAGCOM + KII-USB. >> My build thread...

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    16Klappe's Avatar
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    If the fabrication wasn't so far beyond my collective skill level I would do it. It looks great.
    I quite often say I'm going to do things.

    Then never do them.

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    Very different fit on a uk car as you have the brake master cylinder to deal with, on your s3 its the other side so you have more room down the side.

    Plenty of room for a 3" dp ...
    <tuffty/> likes this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick_mk2 View Post
    No there is no deflector shield even at TFSI..There is no so much heat transfer as you think!We use a custom Intecooler kit and 3" intake!
    Actually there is a heatshield....



    Not done loads of TFSI's but enough to know there is one lurking there and VAG heatshield just about everything...

    <tuffty/>
    Silver 2001 AMK S3. Silver alcantara interior... now with added powarrrrrrrr, torques. VAGCOM + KII-USB. >> My build thread...

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    Quote Originally Posted by beachbuggy View Post
    Very different fit on a uk car as you have the brake master cylinder to deal with, on your s3 its the other side so you have more room down the side.

    Plenty of room for a 3" dp ...
    Fair point well made... this kind of fitment is popular in the states... guessing the 8P chassis has a little more room in this respect... tight as a gnats chuff on a RHD 8L's...

    <tuffty/>
    Silver 2001 AMK S3. Silver alcantara interior... now with added powarrrrrrrr, torques. VAGCOM + KII-USB. >> My build thread...

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    Quote Originally Posted by 16Klappe View Post
    If the fabrication wasn't so far beyond my collective skill level I would do it. It looks great.

    Sure prawn is quietly laughing for more than one reason!
    Prawn likes this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by <tuffty/> View Post
    Fair point well made... this kind of fitment is popular in the states...

    <tuffty/>
    Hopefully in the uk soon too..especially with a nice hybrid

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    I like.

    Jardo, DO IT. And document it all. Just go for it!
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    Quote Originally Posted by <tuffty/> View Post
    Stock internals on 10year old 20v's are not as sturdy as you make out... 20v Polo's were quite late on IIRC... 2005 or so on? would be 19mm pinned crack rods and tangless bearings... not the most sound bottom end to build a 340hp monster on lol

    Anyhoo... I would like to point out that could be interpreted as 'advertising' which of course as a new member you would know is against the rules so lets just keep this thread informational only shall we

    Interesting project though... 2.5" down pipe though? have you tried getting a 3" DP in there?

    <tuffty/>
    Sorry mate but i feel that you are too negative with the whole thing and you haven't see never a car with that setup how is going in the road!In order to place the turbo at 20vt head you will need some pounds to make the appropriate change that we make!I think that everyone is able to understand that!If you think that i make the whole think in this forum for money,sorry but this is not my purpose!
    Polo is 2007 model!Stock rods can make out with even 10-12 years old cars with controlled torgue!We know where is the limit!First we test everything in our cars and if it works to friends cars! We use 3" dowwpipe

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    Quote Originally Posted by <tuffty/> View Post
    Actually there is a heatshield....



    Not done loads of TFSI's but enough to know there is one lurking there and VAG heatshield just about everything...

    <tuffty/>
    06h129597j

    if anyone cares.... Can you see where I'm going with this ;-)
    Prawn and dre_S3 like this.

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    Have you tested this all on a RHD S3 though?
    2000 S3 APY

    18" BBS RSII with Michelin PS3s, 20mm H&R adapters, Relentless 3" DP and Sports cat, B5 V1 induction kit, cone filter+heat shield, Forge 007P, Awesome GTI SMF, AP coilovers, Facelift rear lights, Full Powerflex poly bush kit, R32 Rear ARB, SAI delete, N249 by-pass, Upgraded Engine mounts with Polytek, Stage 1 CC at Badger 5.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwistof View Post
    Have you tested this all on a RHD S3 though?
    No because here in Greece we have only LHD cars

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick_mk2 View Post
    Sorry mate but i feel that you are too negative with the whole thing and you haven't see never a car with that setup how is going in the road!In order to place the turbo at 20vt head you will need some pounds to make the appropriate change that we make!I think that everyone is able to understand that!If you think that i make the whole think in this forum for money,sorry but this is not my purpose!
    Polo is 2007 model!Stock rods can make out with even 10-12 years old cars with controlled torgue!We know where is the limit!First we test everything in our cars and if it works to friends cars
    Not negative at all... just pointing out known issues with 20v tuning... rods on 20v engines are a lottery at the age of Mk4 chassis cars... rod lottery applies...

    <tuffty/>
    Silver 2001 AMK S3. Silver alcantara interior... now with added powarrrrrrrr, torques. VAGCOM + KII-USB. >> My build thread...

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    Quote Originally Posted by <tuffty/> View Post
    Actually there is a heatshield....



    Not done loads of TFSI's but enough to know there is one lurking there and VAG heatshield just about everything...

    <tuffty/>
    Yeah you are right!I really didn't remember it!

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    Here is a dyno from a golf mk3 20vt!This car works as daily driven and his driver believe me runs it everywhere
    S3 stock engine (AMK)
    K04-064 TFSI Turbocharger
    Rc 550cc injectors
    S3 maf case
    4 bar fpr
    Upgrade intank full pump
    Upgrade front mount intercooler
    76mm down pipe
    70mm cat back
    350ps and 45Nm torque




  36. #35
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    We put a shield on your heat shield, so you can heat shield while you heat shield. Basically.

    I love the idea of this, but the reality is that I am not the man for the job. I am however very happy Nick shared this info on here, whilst some of the more established tuners and builders like Dan and PT have reviewed this conversion people like myself have only heard of it and not really bothered finding it out and learning about it.

    Didn't our favourite company director Issam claim to have built a TFSI turbod 1.8t?
    I quite often say I'm going to do things.

    Then never do them.

  37. #36
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    Nice figures and nice curves....

    <tuffty/>
    Silver 2001 AMK S3. Silver alcantara interior... now with added powarrrrrrrr, torques. VAGCOM + KII-USB. >> My build thread...

  38. #37
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    Get it done Jardo...

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    Quote Originally Posted by 16Klappe View Post
    We put a shield on your heat shield, so you can heat shield while you heat shield. Basically.

    I love the idea of this, but the reality is that I am not the man for the job. I am however very happy Nick shared this info on here, whilst some of the more established tuners and builders like Dan and PT have reviewed this conversion people like myself have only heard of it and not really bothered finding it out and learning about it.

    Didn't our favourite company director Issam claim to have built a TFSI turbod 1.8t?
    It is my pleasure...now we work to use an external wastegate at a K04-064 hybrid!There is no need just we want to see how it works and hear the arrrrr-arrrr Also the s3 now is with internals and loba LO4xxx and we are going to see how much bhp can give!We hope more than 420 bhp


  40. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by <tuffty/> View Post
    Get it done Jardo...

    <tuffty/>
    If Bill sponsored the mapping it would take a considerably large chunk of the build cost off....

    How would a K03 conversion differ. The reason I ask is that in three months time I will have access to a free K03 setup from a TFSI when we upgrade my friends Mk5.
    I quite often say I'm going to do things.

    Then never do them.

  41. #40
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    The intake temps on the 2.0TFSi do rise a fair bit under heavy sustained acceleration as the stock intercooler is limited if the boost is turned up.

    Some of us with that engine have found intake temps running up to high 40Cs or more,and moving to a bigger inercooler and WMI cures this.

    The LO400 turbo has done very well over in the TFSi world,and turned in some good figures.

 

 
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