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  1. #1
    ShaunS3's Avatar
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    S3 8L - Clutch & Flywheel Thread - 02M 6 Speed Gearbox - BAM 225 Engine

    Hi guys,

    I have had a quick search on this and the info appears to be scattered about everywhere and inconclusive for my situation.

    I am about to take my S3 off the road for a mechanical overhaul. This will comprise of polybushing, intercoolers and exhaust enhancements, aswell as a major service. To aid ease of fitment, i am opting to take the engine out to carry out the said works as i will be fitting manifolds, DP's and presuming it will be easier to do the cambelt etc with the engine on a stand as aposed to struggling with tight gaps.

    So, i am toying with the idea of replacing the clutch and flywheel whilst the engine is out, but have been a little put off with the price of OEM parts coming to almost £1000 for just those bits. My car is a 2002 S3 8L BAM engine with a 6 speed box, 02M? Here are a few questions for you all:

    If making power increases to the engine + being (Stage 1 / Stage 2 mapped), am i best going for an uprated fast road clutch?

    Is there a single mass flywheel conversion available for the 02M box (OEM or Aftermarket)?

    What are the most recommended clutches/flywheels on the market?

    Ideally, i need to make a decision within the next few days so your help and advice would be much appreciated.

    Thanks, Shaun.

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  3. #2
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    S3 8L - Clutch & Flywheel Thread - 02M 6 Speed Gearbox - BAM 225 Engine

    I went for the Awesome GTI clutch and smfw kit. It's well priced and comes with everything you need. I was launching the crap out of my car at Inters last year down the drag strip and it was spot on. Check it out.
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  4. #3
    ShaunS3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Westy View Post
    I went for the Awesome GTI clutch and smfw kit. It's well priced and comes with everything you need. I was launching the crap out of my car at Inters last year down the drag strip and it was spot on. Check it out.
    I did have a look earlier but couldn't seem to locate anything other than a Helix clutch??

  5. #4
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    S3 8L - Clutch & Flywheel Thread - 02M 6 Speed Gearbox - BAM 225 Engine

    Quote Originally Posted by ShaunS3 View Post
    I did have a look earlier but couldn't seem to locate anything other than a Helix clutch??
    I've just had a look and you're correct. I'm guessing this Helix kit has replaced it as it has all the same bits in the kit and the price is the same. Might be worth dropping them a call and asking.
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  6. #5
    ShaunS3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Westy View Post
    I've just had a look and you're correct. I'm guessing this Helix kit has replaced it as it has all the same bits in the kit and the price is the same. Might be worth dropping them a call and asking.
    It doesn't appear to include the flywheel, its a clutch only kit i'm seeing on there.

    What brand is the kit that you got from them?

  7. #6
    Westy's Avatar
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    S3 8L - Clutch & Flywheel Thread - 02M 6 Speed Gearbox - BAM 225 Engine

    Quote Originally Posted by ShaunS3 View Post
    It doesn't appear to include the flywheel, its a clutch only kit i'm seeing on there.

    What brand is the kit that you got from them?
    Oh yeah! I've just searched the whole transmission section and it looks like they've sacked their old kit off. Might need to call them.
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  8. #7
    ShaunS3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Westy View Post
    Oh yeah! I've just searched the whole transmission section and it looks like they've sacked their old kit off. Might need to call them.
    I've just ordered something from there today aswell ha. Nevermind, will call them in the morning and see what they say. Thanks for having a look anyway mate, appreciated.

    How much was your SMF kit back in the day when you got it?

  9. #8
    Scullies's Avatar
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    This is my setup, was installed for the BT build as the stock clutch was poked.

    Autotech light weight flywheel


    Clutch net 6 paddle - stage 4. A bit of an over kill on the 1.8t that its running on now.





    Be warned, light weight flywheels are noisy, they can sound like engine knock at times, but I have noticed the engine revs up a lot quicker

  10. #9
    Westy's Avatar
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    S3 8L - Clutch & Flywheel Thread - 02M 6 Speed Gearbox - BAM 225 Engine

    Quote Originally Posted by ShaunS3 View Post
    I've just ordered something from there today aswell ha. Nevermind, will call them in the morning and see what they say. Thanks for having a look anyway mate, appreciated.

    How much was your SMF kit back in the day when you got it?
    I'm sure it was around £640 like that Helix kit. And it came with a smfw that was weighted the same as the OE dmfw so it reved the same and isn't massively noisy.
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  11. #10
    <tuffty/>'s Avatar
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    Personally I think clutch choice is subjective on stage1/2... OE clutch is fine as long as you don't launch it but if you drive like you stole it most of the time then something like Westy's is a better bet...

    I use an LuK DMF, LuK std cover and Sachs 4 puck paddle plate... its light as OE but grippy as hell... not snatchy in traffic but certainly more bity than OE

    Most std clutches are shagged purely due to mileage... they are pretty capable of handling stage 1/2 power but its very subjective to how you drive... the std clutch can be pretty much wasted if you do a couple of launches...

    <tuffty/>
    Silver 2001 AMK S3. Silver alcantara interior... now with added powarrrrrrrr, torques. VAGCOM + KII-USB. >> My build thread...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scullies View Post
    This is my setup, was installed for the BT build as the stock clutch was poked.

    Autotech light weight flywheel


    Clutch net 6 paddle - stage 4. A bit of an over kill on the 1.8t that its running on now.





    Be warned, light weight flywheels are noisy, they can sound like engine knock at times, but I have noticed the engine revs up a lot quicker
    i have the a similar flywheel,F! from states cost 170 including shipping. weighs in at 3.9 kilos. they say it accepts any clutch plate material aswell

  13. #12
    ShaunS3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by <tuffty/> View Post
    Personally I think clutch choice is subjective on stage1/2... OE clutch is fine as long as you don't launch it but if you drive like you stole it most of the time then something like Westy's is a better bet...

    I use an LuK DMF, LuK std cover and Sachs 4 puck paddle plate... its light as OE but grippy as hell... not snatchy in traffic but certainly more bity than OE

    Most std clutches are shagged purely due to mileage... they are pretty capable of handling stage 1/2 power but its very subjective to how you drive... the std clutch can be pretty much wasted if you do a couple of launches...

    <tuffty/>
    Very detailed and informative response, that's what we like to see

    Looking at the paperwork, Tim had the gearbox repaired and fitted an OE clutch and flywheel back in 2010 so the mileage on that clutch shouldn't really be an issue but it does feel to have a slight slip sometimes and i'm considering changing it whilst the engine is out.

    Where do you source your stuff from, TPS? I've seen a Sachs organic clutch on Euro Car Parts and heard they are highly regarded as a very good clutch but i don't think its a race clutch, more an OE replacement.

  14. #13
    <tuffty/>'s Avatar
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    I bought the LuK stuff from GSF and Bill got me the Sachs plate as he deals with them...

    <tuffty/>
    Silver 2001 AMK S3. Silver alcantara interior... now with added powarrrrrrrr, torques. VAGCOM + KII-USB. >> My build thread...

  15. #14
    ShaunS3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by <tuffty/> View Post
    I bought the LuK stuff from GSF and Bill got me the Sachs plate as he deals with them...

    <tuffty/>
    Presuming LUK are the supplier of the OEM stuff to VAG? I heard that such spurious suppliers like Euro/GSF/AtoZ do supply some genuine parts but there is a clue in their part numbers to confirm wether they are genuine OEM parts or not, although i can't seem to find the thread i found it on now for love nor money.

  16. #15
    Andrew@A.L.D's Avatar
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    My set up

    Same as Tuffty but with a Billet Steel flywheel that tips the scales at 3kg



    Was 531bhp 8L S3 thats going to break the 600+ bhp Club then break something else. Lets see what this OD HTAGT3582r can do
    My S3 Twists Drive shafts for fun.

    FOR SALE
    Sparco Torino 2 sport seats
    Adjustable FPR from 1-5 bar, 2 sets of Unused ARP 3/8 2000 rod bolts
    , relentless 200 cell cat pipe, Std AGU Crankshaft. Ported & Reconditioned Cylinder head service.

  17. #16
    ShaunS3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew@A.L.D View Post
    My set up

    Same as Tuffty but with a Billet Steel flywheel that tips the scales at 3kg
    Any of the reported rattles or chatters with SMF conversion?

    I take it this is a direct upgrade if you can call it that and will fit with any clutch such as OE or aftermarket?

  18. #17
    Andrew@A.L.D's Avatar
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    Rattles its nuts off at idle

    Its a direct swap and there is a option of clutches you can use with the TTV flywheel
    Was 531bhp 8L S3 thats going to break the 600+ bhp Club then break something else. Lets see what this OD HTAGT3582r can do
    My S3 Twists Drive shafts for fun.

    FOR SALE
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    , relentless 200 cell cat pipe, Std AGU Crankshaft. Ported & Reconditioned Cylinder head service.

  19. #18
    ShaunS3's Avatar
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    Any comments on Black Diamond Performance Clutches?

  20. #19
    Andrew@A.L.D's Avatar
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    I used one when i was into Fords but that was with 180 bhp but never used one on a 300bh+p VAG

    Not bad
    Was 531bhp 8L S3 thats going to break the 600+ bhp Club then break something else. Lets see what this OD HTAGT3582r can do
    My S3 Twists Drive shafts for fun.

    FOR SALE
    Sparco Torino 2 sport seats
    Adjustable FPR from 1-5 bar, 2 sets of Unused ARP 3/8 2000 rod bolts
    , relentless 200 cell cat pipe, Std AGU Crankshaft. Ported & Reconditioned Cylinder head service.

  21. #20
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    Handling mods++. GTX30 soon-ish. Hiding parts from the mrs since 2011. Build thread

  22. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by <tuffty/> View Post
    I use an LuK DMF, LuK std cover and Sachs 4 puck paddle plate

    <tuffty/>
    The LUK standard cover, would that be the existing cover on your car that you swap over to the new clutch plate? I can't seem to find the cover plate on it's own?

  23. #22
    ShaunS3's Avatar
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    Is that all plus VAT and import tax to the UK?

  24. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShaunS3 View Post
    The LUK standard cover, would that be the existing cover on your car that you swap over to the new clutch plate? I can't seem to find the cover plate on it's own?
    I bought a complete clutch...

    I should mention that Welly bought a lightweight alloy SMF and found it to be pretty rubbish to drive normally with... obvs when giving it some it was fine but driving in traffic and pulling out of junctions etc I believe it was a bit of a bugger to live with...

    I like the idea of Westy's SMF, not lightweight enough that the gearbox sounds like its a bag of spanners on idle but Sachs don't seem to do a sprung 4 puck plate so would have to find a suitable alternative whenever the clutch needs changing again

    <tuffty/>
    Silver 2001 AMK S3. Silver alcantara interior... now with added powarrrrrrrr, torques. VAGCOM + KII-USB. >> My build thread...

  25. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShaunS3 View Post
    I've just ordered something from there today aswell ha. Nevermind, will call them in the morning and see what they say. Thanks for having a look anyway mate, appreciated.

    How much was your SMF kit back in the day when you got it?
    I had the Awesome SMF kit fitted earlier this year and she's a little rough on idle but you don't notice it once your on the move.

    I really don't want to start scare mongering on this but I want to add that my gearbox lasted under 100 miles once the SMF conversion was fitted and it ended up blowing a hole in my gearbox. Luckily the Flywheel could be saved but I needed another new clutch from Awesome GTI just days after they had already delivered one!

    Now I'm not saying that Awesome's kit had any issues to cause my gearbox blowing up....but just wanted to give my 2ps worth on a SMF being added onto a 10+ year car where the power has been increased and the gearbox has always been nursed by a dual mass flywheel.

    Ohhh and if you are interested in still getting the SMF that Awesome used to sell- drop me a PM and I will let you know where they may still stock them.

    Edit- forgot to add that this was all on my 2000 APY S3.
    Last edited by kwistof; 19th March 2013 at 09:02.
    2000 S3 APY

    18" BBS RSII with Michelin PS3s, 20mm H&R adapters, Relentless 3" DP and Sports cat, B5 V1 induction kit, cone filter+heat shield, Forge 007P, Awesome GTI SMF, AP coilovers, Facelift rear lights, Full Powerflex poly bush kit, R32 Rear ARB, SAI delete, N249 by-pass, Upgraded Engine mounts with Polytek, Stage 1 CC at Badger 5.

  26. #25
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    I echo the above concern with smf and gearbox probs. A friend of mine had exactly the same problem on his s3 after 1500 miles. I went for a Sachs dmf with up rated Sachs carbon Kevlar clutch, all supplied by techniclutch on eBay. No probs so far
    2001 AMK S3 in Goodwood Green

  27. #26
    ShaunS3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dancuz View Post
    I echo the above concern with smf and gearbox probs. A friend of mine had exactly the same problem on his s3 after 1500 miles. I went for a Sachs dmf with up rated Sachs carbon Kevlar clutch, all supplied by techniclutch on eBay. No probs so far
    That sounds like a good option to go for. Hmm.

  28. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShaunS3 View Post
    Is that all plus VAT and import tax to the UK?
    Yeah it would be. We don't get import tax unless it's over $1000 (so you split shipments haha). It's been a while since I was back in the UK (nearly 6 years) but when I was there it was hit and miss with it. I never got stung with tax but typically used USPS/Royal Mail. The proper couriers are hotter on it I believe.

    Sounds like the DMF option might be good. Tuffty's seemed to rev alright in those vids too!
    Handling mods++. GTX30 soon-ish. Hiding parts from the mrs since 2011. Build thread

  29. #28
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    What weight is the Awesome GTI flywheel? The 034 one is 4kg, whereas some are 3kg (like Andrews).
    Handling mods++. GTX30 soon-ish. Hiding parts from the mrs since 2011. Build thread

  30. #29
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    Done some more digging and it turns out that Black Diamond Stage 2 Kevlar kit uses genuine Sachs equipment but re-surfaced with Kevlar material by Black Diamond. Problem is then, getting hold of a genuine Sachs dual mass flywheel.

    Now looking at - Black Diamond stage 2 clutch kit + LUK dual mass flywheel (sourced from euro car parts)

    Are LUK the OE supplier for VAG?

  31. #30
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    Yes they are

  32. #31
    ShaunS3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superkarl View Post
    Yes they are
    Cheers dude.

    *Goes away to do price comparison on Sachs kit vs Black Diamond + LUK flywheel**


  33. #32
    <tuffty/>'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShaunS3 View Post
    ...Are LUK the OE supplier for VAG?
    Yarp...

    <tuffty/>
    Silver 2001 AMK S3. Silver alcantara interior... now with added powarrrrrrrr, torques. VAGCOM + KII-USB. >> My build thread...

  34. #33
    Westy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam_ View Post
    What weight is the Awesome GTI flywheel? The 034 one is 4kg, whereas some are 3kg (like Andrews).
    I did weigh mine and 12kg rings a bell for some reason. It'll be in my build thread somewhere! Unfortunately I forgot to weigh the standard DMF to see if that weighed the same
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  35. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShaunS3 View Post
    That sounds like a good option to go for. Hmm.
    ebay item: 280735835506

    sales come up occasionally - I got mine for £399
    2001 AMK S3 in Goodwood Green

  36. #35
    superkarl's Avatar
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    i did start looking for a SMF that was in between the light ones (3kg) and the heavy DMFS, but gave up in the end.
    they're all in *** america, the UK is ****ing useless for tuning these cars in terms of available parts and the prices of those parts.

  37. #36
    ShaunS3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dancuz View Post
    ebay item: 280735835506

    sales come up occasionally - I got mine for £399
    Item on ebay £499.99 + £9.00 postage £508.99

    Rung them up and got the kit at £400.00 all in, delivered to my door - RESULT
    Last edited by ShaunS3; 19th March 2013 at 14:08.

  38. #37
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    Went for a Sachs Stage 2 performance carbon/kevlar clutch kit with dual mass flywheel in the end, supplied by Techni-Clutch (Lancs).

    Thanks for all your help/knowledge and advice guys, it has been most helpful. This is what forums are about!

    Shaun.

  39. #38
    kwistof's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShaunS3 View Post
    Went for a Sachs Stage 2 performance carbon/kevlar clutch kit with dual mass flywheel in the end, supplied by Techni-Clutch (Lancs).

    Thanks for all your help/knowledge and advice guys, it has been most helpful. This is what forums are about!

    Shaun.
    Sounds like a good choice there....

    Let us know how you get along with it as £400 is a great price for that kit.
    2000 S3 APY

    18" BBS RSII with Michelin PS3s, 20mm H&R adapters, Relentless 3" DP and Sports cat, B5 V1 induction kit, cone filter+heat shield, Forge 007P, Awesome GTI SMF, AP coilovers, Facelift rear lights, Full Powerflex poly bush kit, R32 Rear ARB, SAI delete, N249 by-pass, Upgraded Engine mounts with Polytek, Stage 1 CC at Badger 5.

  40. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShaunS3 View Post
    Item on ebay £499.99 + £9.00 postage £508.99

    Rung them up and got the kit at £400.00 all in, delivered to my door - RESULT
    No probs and good result! Mines been in for 4 days and feels great.
    2001 AMK S3 in Goodwood Green

  41. #40
    fingermouse's Avatar
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    let me know how it goes, I should change my clutch but might get it fitted as I hav`nt the time to roll about uder the car for a day
    red to red black to black blue to bits

 

 
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