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Thread: S3 stage 2+ with supporting mods power?

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    Red face S3 stage 2+ with supporting mods power?

    Hey I have a stock 2003 S3 with the 165kw/225hp engine.


    I have ordered the following parts and just want feedback regarding what power I should be expecting once installed? 280-285hp?


    Forge 007p DV
    FMIC
    Green cotton panel filter (I smoothed airbox)
    Relentless performance manifold, Downpipe and high flowcat (getting 2.5" catback made)


    Custom code stage 2 remap/tune is booked. Hopefully I picked some good mods.


    Also what mods will be good to do next?

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    Westy's Avatar
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    First off, add a 3" TIP to your list. This mod will give any car big gains, even on a stock map. Get it ordered from Badger 5.

    You'll struggle with the airbox, ditch it and get a big cone filter. Jetex or an OEM Honda S2000 filters are the current flavour of the moment.

    You will also start to max out the flow capacity of the stock exhaust so it would be worth keeping your eyes peeled for an exhaust system like the Miltek one.
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    mind the prospective boost spike.
    injectors will be at their limit for 280-285bhp fyi also

    you dont say what type of fmic?
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    Who is doing the custom code map for you? Jbs designs chesterfield????

    I would seriously reccomend r tech stage 2 map, I went in my mates s3 last night which is just back from r tech Hinckley and Niki has turned it into an awesome machine...... I loved it totally transformed the car, this s3 of sebs had the badger 5 v2 tip aswell as your list of mods. And just about every pcv/vac boost hose ect replaced for silicone upgrade, if your hoses are all stock then expect some to blow especially vacuum or pcv pipes.

    Sean
    Current: 2013 Audi A3 2.0 tdi s line 8V in black SD nav+ extras, E46 BMW M3, 1971 Volvo p1800, 2014 Ford transit sport 155ps ;-)

    Previous : Focus st 225 stage 1 (265 bhp and too much torque), 2002 audi s3 bam engine completely OEM, 2001 Audi a3 1.8 TQS 221bhp and about 20 other cars, majority civics ek4/ek9 and Bmw / Audi soot chucker's!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Westy View Post
    First off, add a 3" TIP to your list. This mod will give any car big gains, even on a stock map. Get it ordered from Badger 5.

    You'll struggle with the airbox, ditch it and get a big cone filter. Jetex or an OEM Honda S2000 filters are the current flavour of the moment.

    You will also start to max out the flow capacity of the stock exhaust so it would be worth keeping your eyes peeled for an exhaust system like the Miltek one.
    I live in Aus so I just went and bought one off ebay. Got a good deal so it wasn't worth me buying a cheaper FMIC and sourcing all pipes and then trying to work out how to mount one securely.

    eBay Australia: Buy new & used fashion, electronics & home d�r

    As for the hp i was just asking forum members if all these mods and tune would come out around 280hp. Thats what my goal is. Anything over that is a bonus.

    I will see if my funds allow me to add the bager 5 TIP to the list. As for the the Jetex, do you know where other forum members have been getting there's from?

    If i get the bager 5 TIP is a Jetex cone really going to make much difference over a green cotton panel filter. Sorry ive tried researching all these mods day in and day out and I am getting mixed reviews with the air intake.

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    Westy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Euro_man View Post
    I live in Aus so I just went and bought one off ebay. Got a good deal so it wasn't worth me buying a cheaper FMIC and sourcing all pipes and then trying to work out how to mount one securely.

    eBay Australia: Buy new & used fashion, electronics & home d�r

    As for the hp i was just asking forum members if all these mods and tune would come out around 280hp. Thats what my goal is. Anything over that is a bonus.

    I will see if my funds allow me to add the bager 5 TIP to the list. As for the the Jetex, do you know where other forum members have been getting there's from?

    If i get the bager 5 TIP is a Jetex cone really going to make much difference over a green cotton panel filter. Sorry ive tried researching all these mods day in and day out and I am getting mixed reviews with the air intake.
    To get around 280bhp from the standard S3 turbo (K04) you will need to help it flow. To help it flow you will definitely need a 3" TIP and a big cone filter along with exhaust manifold and downpipe. You might also find it difficult to reach 280ish without a large port cylinder head (the S3 has a small port head as standard). Once you open up this extra flow the engine will want more fuel, and as Bill mentioned above the standard injectors will be struggling. I had this issue on mine at less then 280bhp.

    There are 2 ways round the injector issue. 1, is to get a 4 bar fuel pressure regulator which is cheap and will help out the injectors. 2, is to upgrade the injectors which will require a custom map.

    The 4 bar FPR will put additional strain on the fuel pump in the tank and a lot of the tuners are starting to see very tired struggling fuel pumps causing issues. Most decent tuners will be able to tell you how healthy your fuel pump is when on a dyno.

    Also with added power comes added torque which has been known to bend the connecting rods. So you might want to add a set of rods to your list too!

    It's a very slippery slope, I know as I've had 2 stage 1 maps, a stage 2 map, a full engine rebuild, and a custom map. Each stage highlights another weakness in these old cars and another part that needs replacing. Have a little read through my build thread and it might give you an idea of what you might encounter.

    I'm not trying to put you off but you don't want to be disappointed.

    Hope that helps.
    8P A3 TDI - 220bhp - 335lbft
    A3 Maintenance Thread
    Bye bye S3 you will be missed.
    S3 Build Thread







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    S3 stage 2+ with supporting mods power?

    Quote Originally Posted by Westy View Post
    To get around 280bhp from the standard S3 turbo (K04) you will need to help it flow. To help it flow you will definitely need a 3" TIP and a big cone filter along with exhaust manifold and downpipe. You might also find it difficult to reach 280ish without a large port cylinder head (the S3 has a small port head as standard). Once you open up this extra flow the engine will want more fuel, and as Bill mentioned above the standard injectors will be struggling. I had this issue on mine at less then 280bhp.

    There are 2 ways round the injector issue. 1, is to get a 4 bar fuel pressure regulator which is cheap and will help out the injectors. 2, is to upgrade the injectors which will require a custom map.

    The 4 bar FPR will put additional strain on the fuel pump in the tank and a lot of the tuners are starting to see very tired struggling fuel pumps causing issues. Most decent tuners will be able to tell you how healthy your fuel pump is when on a dyno.

    Also with added power comes added torque which has been known to bend the connecting rods. So you might want to add a set of rods to your list too!

    It's a very slippery slope, I know as I've had 2 stage 1 maps, a stage 2 map, a full engine rebuild, and a custom map. Each stage highlights another weakness in these old cars and another part that needs replacing. Have a little read through my build thread and it might give you an idea of what you might encounter.

    I'm not trying to put you off but you don't want to be disappointed.

    Hope that helps.
    So this is where I'm at.

    I've got:

    - badger5 v2 TIP/heatshield/cone filter
    - relentless 3" downpipe and decat
    - relentless v3 manifold

    Purchasing either a wellycooler or AH fabs V2 on Friday and a miltek non res cat back exhaust system.

    What injectors and rods should I add to that list for Friday?

    I'm not going to get it mapped until then.

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    Quote Originally Posted by A3AH View Post
    So this is where I'm at.

    I've got:

    - badger5 v2 TIP/heatshield/cone filter
    - relentless 3" downpipe and decat
    - relentless v3 manifold

    Purchasing either a wellycooler or AH fabs V2 on Friday and a miltek non res cat back exhaust system.

    What injectors and rods should I add to that list for Friday?

    I'm not going to get it mapped until then.
    Any "rifle drilled" rods should do but Intergrated Engineering ones are a favourite. Also if you order some Bosch 550cc injectors and the adapters, IE do these too. IE are based in the US so they might take a while to be delivered. I believe Badger 5 stocks these and also Backdraft Motorsports, and both are UK based.
    8P A3 TDI - 220bhp - 335lbft
    A3 Maintenance Thread
    Bye bye S3 you will be missed.
    S3 Build Thread







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    S3 stage 2+ with supporting mods power?

    Quote Originally Posted by Westy View Post
    Any "rifle drilled" rods should do but Intergrated Engineering ones are a favourite. Also if you order some Bosch 550cc injectors and the adapters, IE do these too. IE are based in the US so they might take a while to be delivered. I believe Badger 5 stocks these and also Backdraft Motorsports, and both are UK based.
    Thanks westy, I'm assuming the 144x20 are the ones.

    If I order rifled from the UK suppliers they have to order direct from IE anyway.. So may aswell just order the 550 injectors and the rifled rods from the states off the official website.

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    Quote Originally Posted by A3AH View Post
    Thanks westy, I'm assuming the 144x20 are the ones.

    If I order rifled from the UK suppliers they have to order direct from IE anyway.. So may aswell just order the 550 injectors and the rifled rods from the states off the official website.
    Badger 5 have some stock normally. Might be worth giving Bill a call.
    8P A3 TDI - 220bhp - 335lbft
    A3 Maintenance Thread
    Bye bye S3 you will be missed.
    S3 Build Thread







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    IE usually has a higher price than other retailers. I would shop around for prices and try get all you need from the same place. CTS has/had a special on, they in Canada.

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    RIP S3dave

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    Quote Originally Posted by A3AH View Post
    Thanks westy, I'm assuming the 144x20 are the ones.

    If I order rifled from the UK suppliers they have to order direct from IE anyway.. So may aswell just order the 550 injectors and the rifled rods from the states off the official website.
    the more varied the suppliers you choose the more carriage you will incur.
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    bill@badger5.co.uk
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    S3 stage 2+ with supporting mods power?

    Quote Originally Posted by badger5 View Post
    the more varied the suppliers you choose the more carriage you will incur.
    You got stock in for both of these atm bill?

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    RIP S3dave

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    I can have yes.. pending placing a stock order with IE currently.
    TIPs out of stock for approx 2-3 weeks however..
    **http://www.facebook.com/Badger5Ltd**

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    bill@badger5.co.uk
    **NEW** Badger5 Section CLICK here>> http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/213-badger-5/

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    S3 stage 2+ with supporting mods power?

    Quote Originally Posted by badger5 View Post
    I can have yes.. pending placing a stock order with IE currently.
    TIPs out of stock for approx 2-3 weeks however..
    Already have the TIP, just in need of the rifle drilled rods and the Bosch 550cc injectors.

    Aaron.

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    RIP S3dave

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    that I can do.
    550's on order now for stock, rods already in stock here.
    **http://www.facebook.com/Badger5Ltd**

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    bill@badger5.co.uk
    **NEW** Badger5 Section CLICK here>> http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/213-badger-5/

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    Quote Originally Posted by badger5 View Post
    that I can do.
    550's on order now for stock, rods already in stock here.
    How much are a set of these injectors out of interest?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Westy View Post
    It's a very slippery slope, I know as I've had 2 stage 1 maps, a stage 2 map, a full engine rebuild, and a custom map. Each stage highlights another weakness in these old cars and another part that needs replacing.
    So are you saying that any stage 2 mapped car should really be running a set of uprated rods? I'm guessing your engine didn't last long after a stage 2 map?

    I heard the standard engines were good for circa 300 before uprating internals? So long as your air/fuel ratio is absolutely spot on, i.e. not running too lean for example.

    Would you be ok on a standard engine with the following setup:

    AH Fabs V2 FMIC
    4'' Cold Air intake
    Performance induction i.e. Jetex/S2000 filter
    3'' Relentless DP w/200 cell sports cat
    Miltek catback
    Stage 2+ map
    550cc injectors

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    S3 stage 2+ with supporting mods power?

    I'd be very surprised if you could hit 300 on a standard S3 engine due to the small port cylinder head. I only just managed it with a Passat large port head I'd fitted.

    When it comes to rods there's no magic figure before they will bend. It's been discussed loads on here and there was also a big survey. Some people had had rod failure on stage 1 maps! It's the torque that'll finish of the rods. I ran stage 2 at 272bhp with stock rods and it was fine but I could have run more torque but asked the tuner to tone it down a bit as I was worried about them.
    8P A3 TDI - 220bhp - 335lbft
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    Quote Originally Posted by Westy View Post
    I'd be very surprised if you could hit 300 on a standard S3 engine due to the small port cylinder head. I only just managed it with a Passat large port head I'd fitted.

    When it comes to rods there's no magic figure before they will bend. It's been discussed loads on here and there was also a big survey. Some people had had rod failure on stage 1 maps! It's the torque that'll finish of the rods. I ran stage 2 at 272bhp with stock rods and it was fine but I could have run more torque but asked the tuner to tone it down a bit as I was worried about them.
    So when you say you was worried about the stock rods, where there any telltale signs or were you just purely going off information available on the forum that the rods are possibly a weak point at such power figures?

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    S3 stage 2+ with supporting mods power?

    Quote Originally Posted by ShaunS3 View Post
    So are you saying that any stage 2 mapped car should really be running a set of uprated rods? I'm guessing your engine didn't last long after a stage 2 map?

    I heard the standard engines were good for circa 300 before uprating internals? So long as your air/fuel ratio is absolutely spot on, i.e. not running too lean for example.

    Would you be ok on a standard engine with the following setup:

    AH Fabs V2 FMIC
    4'' Cold Air intake
    Performance induction i.e. Jetex/S2000 filter
    3'' Relentless DP w/200 cell sports cat
    Miltek catback
    Stage 2+ map
    550cc injectors
    I'm getting rods with that exact setup.

  23. #22
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    S3 stage 2+ with supporting mods power?

    Quote Originally Posted by ShaunS3 View Post
    So when you say you was worried about the stock rods, where there any telltale signs or were you just purely going off information available on the forum that the rods are possibly a weak point at such power figures?
    Just going on what others had experienced on here. It was always at the back of my mind. Now they're done I don't care, I know I can rag it senseless
    A3AH likes this.
    8P A3 TDI - 220bhp - 335lbft
    A3 Maintenance Thread
    Bye bye S3 you will be missed.
    S3 Build Thread







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    S3 stage 2+ with supporting mods power?

    Out of interest westy how come you didn't go hybrid k04?

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    S3 stage 2+ with supporting mods power?

    Quote Originally Posted by A3AH View Post
    Out of interest westy how come you didn't go hybrid k04?
    At the time my turbo needed replacing I didn't have the cash or time to do all the other mods required for a hybrid so I decided to see what a stock K04 could do when I did have the cash. Some hybrids don't even make the figures mine makes!

    At least now the engine is all built up and I could go hybrid in the future for the cost of a turbo build and a remap.
    8P A3 TDI - 220bhp - 335lbft
    A3 Maintenance Thread
    Bye bye S3 you will be missed.
    S3 Build Thread







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    S3 stage 2+ with supporting mods power?

    Quote Originally Posted by Westy View Post
    At the time my turbo needed replacing I didn't have the cash or time to do all the other mods required for a hybrid so I decided to see what a stock K04 could do when I did have the cash. Some hybrids don't even make the figures mine makes!

    At least now the engine is all built up and I could go hybrid in the future for the cost of a turbo build and a remap.
    Makes perfect sense. I'd like to see what it would make with a hybrid, maybe one day.
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    Thanks for all yours guys helps, seems like more you upgrade its a chain reaction that never stops haha

    Is there kits available out there for the S3 to change all pipes/hoses to silicone etc? If so where is the best place to get them?

    Suppliers? links?

    Quote Originally Posted by s33nyboy12 View Post
    Who is doing the custom code map for you? Jbs designs chesterfield????

    I would seriously reccomend r tech stage 2 map, I went in my mates s3 last night which is just back from r tech Hinckley and Niki has turned it into an awesome machine...... I loved it totally transformed the car, this s3 of sebs had the badger 5 v2 tip aswell as your list of mods. And just about every pcv/vac boost hose ect replaced for silicone upgrade, if your hoses are all stock then expect some to blow especially vacuum or pcv pipes.

    Sean

 

 

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