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Thread: Stage2 R-tech results

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    Stage2 R-tech results

    Last week I was booked in for stage 2 remap at R-Tech. Here are finding before first run only achieved 235bhp with following mods..dv007, forge pvc set up, b5 induction kit with jetex cone filter, toya fmic 63mm pipe, sports cat down pipe, Miltek cat bak. In end it was only safe to map it to 262 bhp was hoping I could achieve arnd 280bhp.
    Here are following...
    -running lean from previous remap ( turbo could have damage)
    -mass air flow sensor under reading
    -N75 lazy
    -Lamboa sensor B152 ( needs replacing )

    Any ideas much appreciated.
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    Replace the things he said, bring it back and get your 280bhp.

    Niki won't put his name to something which isn't spot on; you're lucky he mapped it at all with those faults. What was the old map? Also throw your 007p on ebay and buy an OEM dump valve, I bet it is leaking.

    Those dips mid range look like boost leaks or something causing timing pulls. Doesn't look too healthy
    I quite often say I'm going to do things.

    Then never do them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 16Klappe View Post
    Also throw your 007p on ebay
    Obviously putting in the ad that its leaking, to save a fellow enthusiast getting a dud that they were expecting to be good.
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    Re: Stage2 R-tech results

    Quote Originally Posted by 16Klappe View Post
    Replace the things he said, bring it back and get your 280bhp.

    Niki won't put his name to something which isn't spot on; you're lucky he mapped it at all with those faults. What was the old map? Also throw your 007p on ebay and buy an OEM dump valve, I bet it is leaking.

    Those dips mid range look like boost leaks or something causing timing pulls. Doesn't look too healthy
    Yeh I respect Nick for that he's a top man & Ben to. The map that was on before stage 1 not got a clue, it was done by previous owner who didn't even tell me it was mapped. Nick said it was a s**t map who ever mapped it just whacked boost up, which has caused now a suspected turbo damage, it can't hold boost well at all.

    I bear 007 dv in mind to change to OEM then soon.

    Nice1

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    Quote Originally Posted by Routledge View Post
    Obviously putting in the ad that its leaking, to save a fellow enthusiast getting a dud that they were expecting to be good.
    What he said haha.

    Get it sorted and you will love it, stage 2 makes these cars. Maybe send the turbo off to Dan (Beachbuggy) and have it refreshed?
    I quite often say I'm going to do things.

    Then never do them.

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    excessively lean running maps... sadly all too common, even from so called respected companies... Grrrrrr, will promote excessive egt's and with those comes cracked manifolds and turbos

    if its worn out, its worn out.

    fix the problems found, refurb the turbo, and it will be able to be optimised.

    No mapper can fix fcuked hardware via mapping... no matter what their god like reputation is.. There are limits to his powers.

    once fixed all will be good again

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    Hmm 007P forsale :D

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    Did you do the conrods before going stage 2?

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    Whats with all the 007p bashing as of late?? they cant all be faulty/leaking can they. I know the OEM valve works ok but if you already have 007p why flog it and get an OEM one when you can just purchase a service kit from Forge for £15 and service your 007p and also fit the re-designed piston too. Service it every 6 moths or so and you should have a happily working DV for years.
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    Quote Originally Posted by vrbob View Post
    they cant all be faulty/leaking can they.
    Yes, they really can!

    The redesign of the piston is acceptance of the issue, and fair play to forge for recognising the issue and sorting it out quickly.

    It seems like the new piston is the answer and gives a leak free valve, but I'd wager money that pretty much all original 007's with the matched machined piston seat will leak to a degree.

    I have the new piston in mine, and I'm happy
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    Ah ok I didn't realise the old piston had been flagged as a proper issue I just thought the new piston was a better design.

    It still stands though that if you have a 007p already don't bother flogging it and buying something else just buy the service kit and make sure you get the new piston and all should be good in the hood and wont cost more than £15 and if you ask nicely and have a receipt for the purchase of the 007p you might even get one free of charge from Forge.
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    Quote Originally Posted by vrbob View Post

    It still stands though that if you have a 007p already don't bother flogging it and buying something else just buy the service kit and make sure you get the new piston and all should be good in the hood and wont cost more than £15 and if you ask nicely and have a receipt for the purchase of the 007p you might even get one free of charge from Forge.
    Correct indeed my good man

    I actually enjoyed rebuilding my DV. It was one of the only jobs on the car that I've been able to do sat on my sofa with a beer whilst watching TV. Why can't all mods be like that!
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    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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    Quote Originally Posted by Prawn View Post
    Correct indeed my good man

    I actually enjoyed rebuilding my DV. It was one of the only jobs on the car that I've been able to do sat on my sofa with a beer whilst watching TV. Why can't all mods be like that!
    Very very true I quite enjoyed it too and as you say its a nice sofa job as you can take your time whilst watching the telly rather than freeze your balls off in the garage damn you winter grrrr
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prawn View Post
    The redesign of the piston is acceptance of the issue, and fair play to forge for recognising the issue and sorting it out quickly.

    It seems like the new piston is the answer and gives a leak free valve, but I'd wager money that pretty much all original 007's with the matched machined piston seat will leak to a degree.
    If Forge has recognised that they have made a product that fails and is worse than OEM; Then shouldn't the new re-designed piston be FOC and all original 007's be recalled?
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwistof View Post
    If Forge has recognised that they have made a product that fails and is worse than OEM; Then shouldn't the new re-designed piston be FOC and all original 007's be recalled?
    My guess would be a distinct No as the 007p has been out for years with the old design and has been super seeded by both the Super size and 008 so the fact they have taken the time to re-design the piston for the 007p just shows they are still thinking and developing their older products.

    In real terms things wear out so buying the service kit from them isn't really a massive dent to the wallet and should keep your 007p working happily for long time.
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  17. #16
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    I sold my Forge within a day of "trying" the OE, wouldn't go back now.
    I quite often say I'm going to do things.

    Then never do them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 16Klappe View Post
    I sold my Forge within a day of "trying" the OE, wouldn't go back now.
    my 007p seems very happy with its new piston and didn't cost me a penny so am happy too

    still thanks for highlighting the issue as otherwise I would be none the wiser
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    Quote Originally Posted by vrbob View Post
    In real terms things wear out so buying the service kit from them isn't really a massive dent to the wallet and should keep your 007p working happily for long time.
    That's a fair point about the wear and tear on an item...nothings built to last forever I suppose!

    Think I may pop the OEM DV back on sometime this week and grab a silver spray can to keep the 'bling' until I get hold of the redesigned piston and service kit
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  20. #19
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    Still not a bad result considering all the problems, just a few expensive parts thats quite easy to fit and a turbo refurb and you'll be laughing

    LOL loving the ASN 007P scare mongering... amazing! Classic forum behavior right there, there is literally going to be a flock of 007p DVs on ebay because of Jardos 'advice' Obviously if its leaking then sort it with the service kit... a simple test will tell. I checked mine on a bench a couple times in the life of me having one on an S3 and it never leaked. One of those things i suppose and cant quibble at £15 for a service kit... friday night chinese cost more than that!

    Did somebody mention con-rods?

    back to the 8P section
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    Seb , me and aaron are now running standard Bosch oem dv for this reason mate, if I'm free at weekend we can put my oem one on for you to try. I prefer them to the forge ones now.

    Simple , quite easy fixes for most of them and don't forget " midland turbos" are only 5 miles from us mate!

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    Quote Originally Posted by vrbob View Post
    my 007p seems very happy with its new piston and didn't cost me a penny so am happy too

    still thanks for highlighting the issue as otherwise I would be none the wiser
    you are thanking jardo for this...................?
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    Quote Originally Posted by sportstractor View Post
    Still not a bad result considering all the problems, just a few expensive parts thats quite easy to fit and a turbo refurb and you'll be laughing

    LOL loving the ASN 007P scare mongering... amazing! Classic forum behavior right there, there is literally going to be a flock of 007p DVs on ebay because of Jardos 'advice' Obviously if its leaking then sort it with the service kit... a simple test will tell. I checked mine on a bench a couple times in the life of me having one on an S3 and it never leaked. One of those things i suppose and cant quibble at £15 for a service kit... friday night chinese cost more than that!

    Did somebody mention con-rods?

    back to the 8P section
    Why is it scare mongering?

    ever checked your DV? Bubble test reveals Reality

    Ignorence is bliss and unaware of *potential* leakage which can be remedied by a Forge Service kit..

    I am not referring to jardo's sell it now posts of course
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    Wasnt the whole reason that everyone changed to a forge 007 because the standard one wasn't up to the job?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paradox1 View Post
    Wasnt the whole reason that everyone changed to a forge 007 because the standard one wasn't up to the job?
    depends on who you listen to.............

    factory dv's can split and fail, talking 2001 onwards era..... possibly poor quality then... seemed very much more common occurance when i was remapping cars from 2002 onwards... many had split dv's

    then forge piston dv was the choice to go for... no more splitting. 006 back then, big ole thing. then 007, and then a couple of iterations of 007 over the years. its turned into a must have recommendation on forums....
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    Quote Originally Posted by badger5 View Post
    you are thanking jardo for this...................?
    Sorry Bill I know you have put time and effort into showing us the failing of some of these so called upgraded parts and the vids you have posted with your leak test etc are brilliant at highlighting this.

    But it was Jardo that put up the stuff about the 007p before that in another thread that then ended up with everyone switching to the original OEM valve on your suggestion. I think it was also this thread that the new piston for the 007p was mentioned which is when I decided to make sure my DV was working correctly

    So thanks to both of you (and the rest) who delved into this as otherwise I would be like the other 99% and be blissfully unaware I had any issue at all.
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  27. #26
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    Stage2 R-tech results

    I always tested on a bench with a little setup and wouldn't get any discernible drop on a gauge. Never tested with Leak detection fluid, but I'm sure a tiny leak wouldn't cause any performance issues surely? as its just a drop in the ocean with the amount of air the turbo pumps. Will that be the first thing you will check now bill if you see a 007p and it has boost issues?

    It is scaremongering when certain people (aka jardo the bum bandito) suggested to sell there 007p without even testing it. I'm not saying there is no problem but it is just funny how conclusions are jumped too when there can be other problems, and if it is an issue with the DV it's only a £15 kit required, unlike the Bosch unit which is £35 IIRC?

    Seems like Jardo has taken it upon himself to rid the world of 007P's... Watch out Forge (lol)
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    hmmmmm. Dani what happened to the testing of the supersize?

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    there are other options other than forge

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    Quote Originally Posted by vrbob View Post
    Sorry Bill I know you have put time and effort into showing us the failing of some of these so called upgraded parts and the vids you have posted with your leak test etc are brilliant at highlighting this.
    it was more the person who told jardo to try a swap was me.......

    look what that turned into lol

    i agree with the arguement the small leaks in bubbles vs the much much much higher airflow passing thru the motor is very small and is unlikely to be felt or measurable in performance terms. I would however counter this arguement that the Minimum acceptable performance of an "upgrade" performance item, would be that it at least matches the std item for which its an *upgrade* for.
    working oe dv, holds 30psi, bubble free and opens with low required vacuum (another important to me aspect in terms of performance.) I have never subscribed to having to add stiffer springs to dv's when running remaps... The top port uses boost pressure to push the piston shut (in correct orientation install!) so spring is there to close it again, on boost transitions to vacuum.
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    Quote Originally Posted by badger5 View Post
    you are thanking jardo for this...................?
    Sod off and let me have this moment Bill!

    -

    Bill told me what to do; I did it and he was right. I am just a little more outspoken than Bill and told everyone to do it haha
    I quite often say I'm going to do things.

    Then never do them.

  32. #31
    Gops's Avatar
    6th gear @7000rpm

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    Ahh I'll get a service kit when I buy my intrim service stuff. £15 ain't bad!
    Quote Originally Posted by <tuffty/> View Post
    its either mapped or broken...

  33. #32
    RIP S3dave

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    ok.. its all jardo's idea

    sorted
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  34. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by 16Klappe View Post
    What he said haha.

    Get it sorted and you will love it, stage 2 makes these cars. Maybe send the turbo off to Dan (Beachbuggy) and have it refreshed?
    I'm going to pm Dan this week to see what he can do. Nick was sayin If I do go down that route I should think about v3 manifold, I could possibley acheive 300bhp with good turbo

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    Quote Originally Posted by lovemelongtime View Post
    Did you do the conrods before going stage 2?
    No I didn't...how will this help with stage2? As i'm not sure myself really.

  36. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by guzzy_431 View Post
    No I didn't...how will this help with stage2? As i'm not sure myself really.
    More power + more torque + previous pikey map + old engine + weak factory rods = recipe for one finding its way to atmospheric conditions.

    Usually I am all for no rods and am of the opinion it is cheaper to buy a new engine than fit rods to their existing engine. But I know nothing so ignore me.

    If you want to be safe, fit rods.
    I quite often say I'm going to do things.

    Then never do them.

  37. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by s33nyboy12 View Post
    Seb , me and aaron are now running standard Bosch oem dv for this reason mate, if I'm free at weekend we can put my oem one on for you to try. I prefer them to the forge ones now.

    Simple , quite easy fixes for most of them and don't forget " midland turbos" are only 5 miles from us mate!

    Sean

    I'll give you a bell on Friday eve..you fancy having a go at my arm rest to bro??! lol

  38. #37
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    My 007p flutters now. Bought in December. Emailed Forge earlier and they were none the wiser about leaking.
    2000 Audi A3 1.8T Sport AUM K03S|Second owner|Forge 007p|CM TIP|Yellow Dogbone|Pipercross panel
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    Quote Originally Posted by 16Klappe View Post
    More power + more torque + previous pikey map + old engine + weak factory rods = recipe for one finding its way to atmospheric conditions.

    Usually I am all for no rods and am of the opinion it is cheaper to buy a new engine than fit rods to their existing engine. But I know nothing so ignore me.

    If you want to be safe, fit rods.
    Its not cheaper to pay someone to fit an unknown used engine (which in itself has big question of how good is a used engine??)
    **http://www.facebook.com/Badger5Ltd**

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  40. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jardo View Post
    But I know nothing so ignore me.
    SIG'd!

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Prawns TFSI Turbo'd 1.8T Track Car

    But I know nothing so ignore me.

  41. #40
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    My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    people only ever look at basic parts cost and see ''new engine £300''

    truth is, most people cannot, and will not do this work themselves, and will be paying ~£50 per hour for a garage to do it.

    Bby the time you've drained the fluids, bought new fluids, changed the required parts like cambelt and tensioners and water pump and all sorts, bought all the gaskets required to swap over the turbo, inlet etc etc, fitted the obvious new clutch that you'd do as it were comming out etc etc....

    it's actually cheaper to just fit rods in the first place.
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