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  1. #1
    Markb's Avatar
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    Lowering past 40mm. Handling, suspension geometry & component wear?

    As subject I know the handling is going to be ruined, but if I fit coil-overs then maybe I could comprise and drive around at -40mm, then drop it to the sill plates for shows.

    Anyway what are the knock on effects of driving a car this low?

    More strain on drive shafts and suspension components? Uneven tyre wear on the inside edge?

    Finally is there anyway to compensate for these effects? Adjustable tie rods, adjustable camber kit?

    I know I am going to get slated for this by Glen, but I just want to know.

    Cheers Mark.

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  3. #2
    Timbo's Avatar
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    Re: Lowering past 40mm. Handling, suspension geometry & component wear?

    I believe the standard front ARB fouls the driveshafts below -40mm (ignore if you've got an aftermarket one).

    You'll ideally need to get the tracking re-done every time you change the ride height.

    Plenty of the Golf boys on uk-mkivs seem to run at -60mm without problems once they've changed the ARBs, but it sounds like you want to go lower than that.

  4. #3
    Markb's Avatar
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    Re: Lowering past 40mm. Handling, suspension geometry & component wear?

    [ QUOTE ]
    I believe the standard front ARB fouls the driveshafts below -40mm (ignore if you've got an aftermarket one).

    You'll ideally need to get the tracking re-done every time you change the ride height.

    Plenty of the Golf boys on uk-mkivs seem to run at -60mm without problems once they've changed the ARBs, but it sounds like you want to go lower than that.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Yeah I've heard about the issues with the ARB. So that will be replaced.

    No -60mm will be fine for me. Just wanted to know if any issues would be brought up.

    Cheers Mark.

  5. #4
    Markb's Avatar
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    Re: Lowering past 40mm. Handling, suspension geometry & component wear?

    Any more input?

  6. #5
    nervus's Avatar
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    Re: Lowering past 40mm. Handling, suspension geometry & component wear?

    I've heard about sump clearance trouble at running less than 40mm but thats all been on S3's to be honest but i can't see how it differs as the lump is physically the same and mounted the same etc.

  7. #6
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    Re: Lowering past 40mm. Handling, suspension geometry & component wear?

    If you want to run at -60mm why not run -60mm springs and shortened Bilsteins? A simpler solution I would have thought.

    You might get funny wear on the inside edges of the front tyres but the rears should be fine (it's 2wd, right?). 2wd A3 rear suspension is straight trailing arm torsion beam so doesn't get the camber change when lowering the S3/A3Q gets.

    AFAIK the front suspension isn't adjustable at all on the 2wd A3 (other than toe) - I think the S3 has a slotted lower link to add a bit of adjustability but the A3 doesn't.

    There is loads and loads of info about this on uk-mkivs if you can be bothered to dig for it - far more 2wd Golf owners modding their cars!

    What are you running at the moment BTW? Looks lower than standard.

  8. #7
    Markb's Avatar
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    Re: Lowering past 40mm. Handling, suspension geometry & component wear?

    [ QUOTE ]
    If you want to run at -60mm why not run -60mm springs and shortened Bilsteins? A simpler solution I would have thought.

    You might get funny wear on the inside edges of the front tyres but the rears should be fine (it's 2wd, right?). 2wd A3 rear suspension is straight trailing arm torsion beam so doesn't get the camber change when lowering the S3/A3Q gets.

    AFAIK the front suspension isn't adjustable at all on the 2wd A3 (other than toe) - I think the S3 has a slotted lower link to add a bit of adjustability but the A3 doesn't.

    There is loads and loads of info about this on uk-mkivs if you can be bothered to dig for it - far more 2wd Golf owners modding their cars!

    What are you running at the moment BTW? Looks lower than standard.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Cheers for that matey.

    Yeah I could go for a -60mm setup like you say, but if it's anything to go by my current setup this will result in the front being lower then the rear which I don't like. This is why I was thinking about the Coil-over setup which will allow me to go -40mm at the front and -60mm at the rear. Which I think I will be happy with, but then again I also like the fact that I will be able to go further for shows [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

    Mine is lowered -30mm on Eibach Pro's at the minute and love the handling of it and it's not too bumpy [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] I also like how much the car is lowered at the front, but the rear doesn't look right. So I think the solution might be the Eibach Pro Sport Coil-over setup.

    Yeah mine is a 2WD car, and as you say there is no adjustment for camber.

    I am a member of the UK-MKIV's and have read many threads, but just wanted to see what the A3/S3 boys have got to say rather then the Golfs.

  9. #8
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    Re: Lowering past 40mm. Handling, suspension geometry & component wear?

    Sounds like you know at least as much as me about all this then!

    Mine's on Eibach Pro's too BTW, and mine looks lower at the front than the back too!

    One other thing - I've heard bad things about the longevity of some coilovers, which I guess makes sense if they've not designed for everyday use.

  10. #9
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    Re: Lowering past 40mm. Handling, suspension geometry & component wear?

    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]
    If you want to run at -60mm why not run -60mm springs and shortened Bilsteins? A simpler solution I would have thought.

    You might get funny wear on the inside edges of the front tyres but the rears should be fine (it's 2wd, right?). 2wd A3 rear suspension is straight trailing arm torsion beam so doesn't get the camber change when lowering the S3/A3Q gets.

    AFAIK the front suspension isn't adjustable at all on the 2wd A3 (other than toe) - I think the S3 has a slotted lower link to add a bit of adjustability but the A3 doesn't.

    There is loads and loads of info about this on uk-mkivs if you can be bothered to dig for it - far more 2wd Golf owners modding their cars!

    What are you running at the moment BTW? Looks lower than standard.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Cheers for that matey.

    Yeah I could go for a -60mm setup like you say, but if it's anything to go by my current setup this will result in the front being lower then the rear which I don't like. This is why I was thinking about the Coil-over setup which will allow me to go -40mm at the front and -60mm at the rear. Which I think I will be happy with, but then again I also like the fact that I will be able to go further for shows [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

    Mine is lowered -30mm on Eibach Pro's at the minute and love the handling of it and it's not too bumpy [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] I also like how much the car is lowered at the front, but the rear doesn't look right. So I think the solution might be the Eibach Pro Sport Coil-over setup.

    Yeah mine is a 2WD car, and as you say there is no adjustment for camber.

    I am a member of the UK-MKIV's and have read many threads, but just wanted to see what the A3/S3 boys have got to say rather then the Golfs.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Thought you was going to drop a sub or two into that boot of your Mark, which would lower the rear a little [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

  11. #10
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    Re: Lowering past 40mm. Handling, suspension geometry & component wear?

    [ QUOTE ]
    Sounds like you know at least as much as me about all this then!

    Mine's on Eibach Pro's too BTW, and mine looks lower at the front than the back too!

    One other thing - I've heard bad things about the longevity of some coilovers, which I guess makes sense if they've not designed for everyday use.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Cool yeah I rate them highly, but it just the "Drag Race" look that I don't like. I am swaying between the Eibach's and KW's

  12. #11
    Markb's Avatar
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    Re: Lowering past 40mm. Handling, suspension geometry & component wear?

    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]
    If you want to run at -60mm why not run -60mm springs and shortened Bilsteins? A simpler solution I would have thought.

    You might get funny wear on the inside edges of the front tyres but the rears should be fine (it's 2wd, right?). 2wd A3 rear suspension is straight trailing arm torsion beam so doesn't get the camber change when lowering the S3/A3Q gets.

    AFAIK the front suspension isn't adjustable at all on the 2wd A3 (other than toe) - I think the S3 has a slotted lower link to add a bit of adjustability but the A3 doesn't.

    There is loads and loads of info about this on uk-mkivs if you can be bothered to dig for it - far more 2wd Golf owners modding their cars!

    What are you running at the moment BTW? Looks lower than standard.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Cheers for that matey.

    Yeah I could go for a -60mm setup like you say, but if it's anything to go by my current setup this will result in the front being lower then the rear which I don't like. This is why I was thinking about the Coil-over setup which will allow me to go -40mm at the front and -60mm at the rear. Which I think I will be happy with, but then again I also like the fact that I will be able to go further for shows [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

    Mine is lowered -30mm on Eibach Pro's at the minute and love the handling of it and it's not too bumpy [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] I also like how much the car is lowered at the front, but the rear doesn't look right. So I think the solution might be the Eibach Pro Sport Coil-over setup.

    Yeah mine is a 2WD car, and as you say there is no adjustment for camber.

    I am a member of the UK-MKIV's and have read many threads, but just wanted to see what the A3/S3 boys have got to say rather then the Golfs.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Thought you was going to drop a sub or two into that boot of your Mark, which would lower the rear a little [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Yeah I was, but I'm in two minds of what to do. Full leather and install or Stripped out racer look [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

    So we'll see what happens.

  13. #12
    Timbo's Avatar
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    Re: Lowering past 40mm. Handling, suspension geometry & component wear?

    Which ARBs are you planning on going with? I'll be interested to see how you get on as I've been thinking of fitting ARBs myself (purely for handling reasons, not going any lower).

  14. #13
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    Re: Lowering past 40mm. Handling, suspension geometry & component wear?

    Markb, one word - airbags

    they're great you just hit a button and the whole car lifts as much as you want and press the drop switch and it will hit the sills, see the guy at maxhydraulics can supply you with decent kit and all the specialist support you need, he's one of the top 3 specialists at lowering cars in the country particularly with hydraulics/airbags, think as above you need to remove the arb though. gives pretty good handling, not as good as the coil over though

  15. #14
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    Re: Lowering past 40mm. Handling, suspension geometry & component wear?

    [ QUOTE ]
    Which ARBs are you planning on going with? I'll be interested to see how you get on as I've been thinking of fitting ARBs myself (purely for handling reasons, not going any lower).

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Again I am thinking of the Eibach ARB's

  16. #15
    Markb's Avatar
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    Re: Lowering past 40mm. Handling, suspension geometry & component wear?

    [ QUOTE ]
    Markb, one word - airbags

    they're great you just hit a button and the whole car lifts as much as you want and press the drop switch and it will hit the sills, see the guy at maxhydraulics can supply you with decent kit and all the specialist support you need, he's one of the top 3 specialists at lowering cars in the country particularly with hydraulics/airbags, think as above you need to remove the arb though. gives pretty good handling, not as good as the coil over though

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Don't like the idea of them, and I've heard the handling is not much use. Also you have got to find some space for the equipment!

  17. #16
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    Re: Lowering past 40mm. Handling, suspension geometry & component wear?

    i know what you mean there has been a lot of crap installers popping up everywhere using pretty low grade stuff, there are probably two companies in the country i'd trust with this kind of thing, 1. Maxhydraulics, 2.Rayvern hydraulics, they've both been in doing this in the uk 10 years or more, both are old school reliable people with old values of how a car should be modified, bags wont break if they're installed right i think major issues when these make a fast buck new companies say they'll do the install for cheap and they have not measured or had enough experience to put it together reliably, which is a shame its being dismissed as dangerous cos of them. really this sector need to be kept to certain standards unfortunately anyone can do it and it is such a vital part of the car.

    i would have thought it would be perfect for dropping at shows or any meets you might attend without messing about when you get there, definently you could hit the sills easily from normal road stanse. switches are momentary so you can lift or drop the car as much as you like.

  18. #17
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    Re: Lowering past 40mm. Handling, suspension geometry & component wear?

    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]
    Which ARBs are you planning on going with? I'll be interested to see how you get on as I've been thinking of fitting ARBs myself (purely for handling reasons, not going any lower).

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Again I am thinking of the Eibach ARB's

    [/ QUOTE ]
    Yeah, that what I've been thinking of too, mainly because it's a fair bit cheaper than the Neuspeed kit! Plus Eibach have a good name of course.

    There often seems to be a bit of a shortage of them in the country though.

  19. #18
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    Re: Lowering past 40mm. Handling, suspension geometry & component wear?

    would the R32 ARB's foul with lowering by about 40mm

  20. #19
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    Re: Lowering past 40mm. Handling, suspension geometry & component wear?

    [ QUOTE ]
    would the R32 ARB's foul with lowering by about 40mm

    [/ QUOTE ]

    AFAIK, R32 ARBs won't fit onto a FWD model of A3 or Golf, need to buy longer drop links to avoid hitting drive shafts when lowering more than 40mm IIRC.

 

 

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