bad boy honda type R

[Ess_Three]

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OK, but doesnt torque actually accelerate a car or am i wrong in thinking this?

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It does. But torque figures on their own are only directly comparable if the cars weigh the same and have the same gearing.

If each car had only one gear and weighed the same...then the car with the higher torque would accelerate faster - assuming it could put the torque down to the road.

Gearing is the big factor...gears are only torque multipliers, after all.

Race cars tend to have lots of top end power but little torque below 5000RPM...but they aren't slow at accelerating. Why?
Because they are geared low.

My Integra Type-R would easily match an S3 from 0-100MPH with only 133lb-ft of torque and FWD. Why?
Because it was very low geared, and you flew through the rev band quickly to get the engine into the meaty part of the rev range.

In general tems torque is a good indicator of in gear acceleration, and acceperation off the line...but you have to be mindful of available grip, gearing, mass and at higher speeds, aerodynamics.

 

[The Slug]

Glen, is this the big factor that the diesels tend to drop off the top end, having a lower gear ratio, espically on a 6 speed box? Presuming that the big puch in the back of your seat is the coures of lots of torque on a short gear length?

 

[Ess_Three]

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Glen, is this the big factor that the diesels tend to drop off the top end, having a lower gear ratio, espically on a 6 speed box?
Presuming that the big puch in the back of your seat is the coures of lots of torque on a short gear length?

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If the gearing is low...then yes.
My other half's A2 TDI is short geared...quick, but runs out of puff at relatively low revs / speeds in each gear.

In general TDIs have longer ratios than the petrol versions...which mean they hang onto the gear longer...and as they have all the extra torque, they are able to still accelerate rapidly.

Unfortunately, my impression of the VAG 8v 1.9 PD TDI engines in particular are that as the standard power goes up, the meaty part of the torque curve gets smaller - peakier if you like - meaning a 6 speed 'box is required to keep it in the really high torque section, more often.

 

[nlw73]

'
My Integra Type-R would easily match an S3 from 0-100MPH with only 133lb-ft of torque and FWD. Why?
Because it was very low geared, and you flew through the rev band quickly to get the engine into the meaty part of the rev range.'

also the car is very light as well! probably some 200 kgs lighter than the audi so that counts!
weight is always a penalty and under acceleration.
how is the S3 geared compared to a type R?
I would imagine the type R will only be geared to like 130 to 140 max?

 

[nervus]

I found the top speeds in each gear in the Civic Type-R very similar to the S3, if anything the S3 gained a little less top speed in each gear (except 6th) but thats just multiplied error.

IIRC you couldn't hit 60mph in second in the civic, it was about 58mph at the limiter, 80 in 3rd, 120 in 4th and all the way to 150 on the clocks. Very similar to what i find in the Audi.

 

[jojo]

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I found the top speeds in each gear in the Civic Type-R very similar to the S3, if anything the S3 gained a little less top speed in each gear (except 6th) but thats just multiplied error.

IIRC you couldn't hit 60mph in second in the civic, it was about 58mph at the limiter, 80 in 3rd, 120 in 4th and all the way to 150 on the clocks. Very similar to what i find in the Audi.

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Yes, the speeds reached in every gear seems to show that the S3 and CTR are evenly matched, until you have a look at the tacko meter, where the S3 is showing 7200revs, and CTR is at a dizzy 9k revs.

 

[Ess_Three]

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Yes, the speeds reached in every gear seems to show that the S3 and CTR are evenly matched, until you have a look at the tacko meter, where the S3 is showing 7200revs, and CTR is at a dizzy 9k revs.

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Exactly...
So the CTR is lower geared to get it past the torqueless bottom end and up into the 'fun' zone.
Honda have always been very good at gearing their cars well, bearing in mind the torque delivery of their engines.

 

[nlw73]

fair shout lads and gearing has a lot to do with it.
especially when you don't have torque to bail you out in a higher gear!
makes sense that the S3 is geared quite like the S3 to prevent any lag being induced!

 

[The Slug]

S3 geared quite like.........itself, lol

 

[fasteddie]

off topic a bit so is it heat soak that gives me a flatspot at 5000ish revs in a high gear, only really see this on a trackday but it is very noticable when it happens