A3 quattro to S3 - noticeable difference?!

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motorsportben

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I'm going to copy my post on pistonheads to here, hopefully there's a greath wealth of experience to help me!
I currently own an 8L Audi A3 1.8t quattro sport and have owned it for just over 6 months.
I'm 21 years old, work in the motorsport industry and currently building myself a separate track/race car.
I bought the A3 as I thought it would be a bit more of a comfortable and refined car for me to pootle to and from work in,all over the country to the various race tracks with work, but should I stumble on a nice bit of b road, allow me to have a bit of fun every now and then as a young petrol head naturally does! Also with it being German I was presuming it would run forever, only needing fuel adding, allowing me to concentrate all my time and resources on my track car build.

So far it's most of those boxes ticked, it's comfortable on the motorway, acceptable to take lady friends out in in my now stuck up (no thanks to a certain ITV show!) corner of essex, and the engine performance is more than adequate for road use. The only real mechanical issues I've had were as a result of hitting an un-avoidable rather large pothole too.
But I just can't gel with the car. It's real big problem for me is it's rolly/wallowly handling that is rather uninspiring when driving enthusiastically. You can really tell it's quite a big heavy 4 door car.
I feel as though I've gone too sensible too early, I'm sure it would be a good petrol head's family car, but I really don't need the 4 doors as a single young man.

What I'm hoping is that the 8L S3 / Cupra R will be the answer to my problems. Offer almost the same level of comfort and ease of use in the mundane commutes, but be that bit more tighter and sportier feeling when it comes having a bit of fun.

Has anyone made the same transition/driven both sets of cars/have a similar opinion of the A3 as me etc. or have anything to add, maybe suggestions of other cars that would fit the bill?
 
In my experience, nope. Depends what you've come from and what you need.

I came from a severely underpowered Clio that could outrun most larger engined cars (within reason) purely because the thing drove like it was on rails. Solid top mounts, coilovers, spacers, uprated bushes etc etc. Great little chassis as well, so cornering was epically flat and smooth.

My S3 has a superb amount of grunt (ticking around 232 g/m2 or 270+ bhp). But show it a corner (completely standard car, suspension wise) and it leans like a ferry in stormy weather and understeers so much I have scared myself a few times.

Now luckily, I'm not 18 anymore, so whizzing around corners is just not me. Coupled with the car only being used down a basically straight A road from mine to my missus' parents on a Sunday. Barely goes above 40, but sees license losing speeds in a jiffy when I'm being a prat/on the motorway.

In answer to your question, unless you go down the uprated front, I'd look elsewhere.
 
Never had/drove an a3

But i would imagine, in standard form, they differ by a large margin.... Otherwise why bother with an s3??

Modified..... Theres a few who run a3's as track cars. And without quattro weighing you down are going to be faster round a track that an s3 pushing the same power.
 
Mine is a Quattro A3.
I guess I wouldn't mind fitting coilovers to or buying an S3 with them on, but I see it pointless fitting them to what is essentially a family car 4/5 door A3!
Is there a noticeable difference with just the coilovers or is it purely more for asthetics most people go with them?
 
They understeer majorly and I wouldnt be surprised if the fatter s3 was worse than A3. There is however mods you can do to reduce the understeer. Im personally going to be trying to tackle some of my understeer before I increase power.

I think it generally comes down to whether you liek the car or not, if cornering is your only quarm and you enjoy the car I would spend the money improving it. If you want something fun to chuck round corners out of the box then dont bother with the S3!!

For around the £200(cheaper doing the work yourself) you could fit a stiffer rear ARB which many people on here say has almost eradicated their understeer.
 
I've got to be honest, the Leon Cupra R would suit you better I think.

As standard, the S3 just doesn't feel alive enough, it's too safe, too boring. The LCR has the same power with less weight, looks more aggressive, and has much better brakes.

The LCR is in my opinion the best car to be made on the platform, they've aged well and don't look dated at all.

You lose the 4wd, but to be honest if you're from a motorsport background you'll pretty soon realise that the S3/A3 haldex 4wd system doesn't make the most precise tool anyway.

I'd be looking for an LCR I think.
 
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Agree with Prawn, a LCR would probably tick more boxes for your needs. An S3 can be made to go quicker on twisty stuff, but apart from traction, a LCR does what an S3 can do 90% of the time, and probably quicker in most cases, if you know how to drive. In the wet though, it's a different story.
 
Agree with Prawn, an LCR would do it for you over an S3.

The traction argument really is limited to smashing it off the lights, above 20mph the 8L/Mk4/Leon Chassis is more than capable of hooking up.

When you have another project, which is potentially awesome you start on a downward spiral with buying a daily car. Which you think will be up to the job, but isn't. So you set about making it better, and modifying it. And slowly buy surely you've got two fairly limited vehicles which are fairly highly modified and have cost you an arm and a leg.

An LCR has got a great chassis, a cracking engine, great brakes, a lovely interior, a sporty image, 5 doors and is cheap to run. All out of the box.

IMO they are one of the only perfect daily drivers that money can buy; they are almost un-compromised within the compromised world of sensible daily drivers. All wheel drive isn't necessary unless you want to go chasing power, and if you bought a standard S3 I think you may feel like you are in the same boat. Where as with an LCR, it's all just there.

LCR's are popping up for sub 3K all over the place these days.
 
Nearly bought an LCR instead of the EP. Was surprised at the money they are going for these days. I saw 225bhp models with 60k on them for around 4k.
 
I know of a seemingly immaculate, enthusiast owned facelift 225 LCR with an R Tech map, Weitec coilovers, Miltek and DS2500 pads which is on 84K and is only 2750 :/
 
yea, crazy crazy cheap now Jason, 2003-2004 examples all under 100k going for £3k regularly.

Also worth noting you'll get better economy from the LCR
 
Prawn said:
You lose the 4wd, but to be honest if you're from a motorsport background you'll pretty soon realise that the S3/A3 haldex 4wd system doesn't make the most precise tool anyway.

I'd be looking for an LCR I think.
Click to expand...

Hmmm whos driving to work in the Audi in the snow in the morning...... I am....and i will get there with no drama...;)
 
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I offered people £10 a tug if they got stuck at work haha! Would of made good money! I tested my 4wd today in the snow, it's very good if your driving normally, I don't lose shape. The abs is ****e though!
 
Gops said:
I offered people £10 a tug if they got stuck at work haha! Would of made good money! I tested my 4wd today in the snow, it's very good if your driving normally, I don't lose shape. The abs is ****e though!
Click to expand...

Thought you said you work at LandRover? :laugh:
 
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For road use the Quattro is a much better option.

For example on Saturday it was raining, my car has upwards of 350bhp and the only bit of wheel spin I got was as I was flat out over a crest! I would also say that my car handles pretty well as well, despite only having coilovers and an r32 rarb. It will under steer if you drive it wrong and go into the corner too fast, but on the road for an average driver under steer is a lot easier to deal with. On the track, even at the pace I was going!, a more aggressive setup to balance the car would have been better, but road driving and track driving are completely different.

and if we get snow my car doesn't stay where it is, but it doesn't take me to work either!
 
Such a never ending argument.

For a daily driven road car having a basic driving ability and the sense to drive to the given conditions in a safe manner totally negates the need for AWD.

With my 215/45/17 T1R's I get perfect traction both in a straight line and on corner exit with lock. It is all about throttle control and response.

At the 200bh/ton (insert argument from Prawn saying it is less) and with +\- 240bhp I have never wanted or felt the necessity for AWD.

Planting it in first and second gear on a damp road -

[video]www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXvtnBtBYfA[/video]

More than enough traction and quick enough to stick with all but the very best K04 S3's.

The other day Prawn was most upset, whilst he has a diff and 350bhp even with his cornering speed benefit on a damp B road he could only just keep up given a small straight after corner exit. An LCR would ruin my car in terms of turn in, braking, traction and chassis response. I wouldn't be pitching an S3 against an LCR as the two are miles apart in terms of performance. The Seat Toledo which shares a front end with a Leon was a very succesful world touring and brit car entrant. Which is more than can be saidnfor a Haldex powered vehicle.

On the road, unless you have 350bhp+ I can see no reason why AWD should be classed as "better" than FWD. Especially when comparing an LCR to an S3. My car is crap compared to an LCR, so for me to hassle S3's an LCR would leave them for dead. Whilst being cheaper to run, cheaper to maintain and having an easier resale market.

This argument will NEVER end, because it simply cannot be agreed on. So I shall just agree to disagree.
 
s3dave said:
Traction V going up the road like a slug on crack.... ;)
Click to expand...

Traction V getting a day off work...

2WD destroys AWD for snow/mud/slurry. You guys are just doing it wrong.

My old Ford Pop was pretty much the only mobile vehicle in Basingstoke 4 years ago. There were over 4000 vehicles abandoned on the ring road alone. Within my estate there was a couple of freelanders, a discovery, a range rover and yes there was an A4 Quattro Avant all abandoned at the side of the road.

My Ford pop ferried Prawn and I all over the place, faultlessly cutting through all the snow without issue. We even tried to get it stuck and just couldn't.

If you want to be able to get about in the snow, fit space savers.
 
^^^I have no connection with the above statement ^^^

For road use, in the wet / Damp, FWD is a pain when you have LOTS of power, but only if you want to go really fast, which lets face it, you shouldn't be in the wet anyway.

Jardo's car doesn't suffer so much from traction issues, party because it doesn't have enough power to do so, and also partly because the throttle is never applied until it's in a straight line. it's also not 200bhp / ton, it's 190 at best :laugh:

For pushing on, it's annoying. However, I do agree with him to a point, that it's more than capable enough up to any speeds that would be considered responsible on the public roads in the wet. If you want to be irresponsible 365/year, then yes, you need a haldex!

Sure, when it snows, the S3 wins hands down without question.

I just think that the LCR is the more capable car more of the time, unless you start spending money on both, when it is what you make of it.

Going back to the context of the thread, I still think the OP would be better suited to an LCR.
 
16Klappe said:
2WD destroys AWD for snow/mud/slurry. You guys are just doing it wrong.
Click to expand...

Your such a comic thanks for that.. ever thought about standup?...

Your pop probably had razor blade wheels, thats why it did so good, in the snow and ice a Haldex is going to win, there just is no argument,
It may be a fake 4WD but it has got me out of the **** a few times over the last few years...

Good idea with the space savers though get 2 of them on the front of your car and you will be cruising like a Boss...
 
Handbrake on I could and have done exactly the same in my A3, I would bet my life that Prawn could out slide ANY of you in his A3. :p

Got to agree LCR's tend to he driven by thickos, and they do leak a bit. But it isn't like S3's are fautless.

An A3 on the other hand, unquestionable reliability :p
 
In reply to original post, yes their would be a noticeable difference between an A3 Quattro and an S3.

Bigger turbo, more power, better brakes, stiffer lower suspension.

problem with the A3 Quattro especially at standard power is you have all the weight of the haldex and only 180bhp.

As a daily commute I think the S3 is hard to be beaten as an over all package...
 
OP: Test drive both, seriously.

In standard form, S3's DO feel different from normal A3 1.8T's. Better or worse is subjective, depending on your criteria and intended use.

I owned a very healthy, lightly-modified '03 Anni Golf (Stg 1 map, TT cast front suspension arms/ bushes, LCR top mounts, S3 upper and lower braces, Pagid Blue pads and Brembo HC discs) for 2 years and loved it. As you'd expect, it felt *very* similar to the LCR's I test-drove before getting the S3. It was a great car, but as a day-to-day hack, I have to confess that the S3 feels like a more sorted car in almost every regard. Even with good tyres (Continental Sport Contacts) the Golf would suffer from hideous axle tramp when trying to accelerate HARD from a crawl in anything but bone-dry conditions. The S3? As you'd expect - Not so much.

The family DNA is still obvious, but IMO it's just... ...'better'.

I got my car for a bit of a bargain (it's had some niggly faults that I've now sorted that bought the price down considerably from where it should have been) and I'm genuinely happy with my purchase. It's a great car.

Controversially, I'm not convinced by the premium the S3 commands -regardless of it's special trinkets over other mk4-platform cars - but to my mind, if I enjoy driving it as much as I would an LCR and it demonstrably holds it's value better, then that's a good enough reason for me to keep it.

If I decide to sell and/or I feel the pressure to have nominally cheaper running costs, I think I'd investigate a newer, lower mileage, LCR and pocket some change for a holiday...

...Or go off-piste and look at a 330 M-Sport coupe - which is arguably better handling car (out of the box) than either an LCR or S3.
 
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this is such a redundant topic. Its obvious to anyone with half a brain that the best car to get is a lada niva

that little ****** wouldnt be getting stuck no matter what you drove through





granted its performance credentials are lacking....... massively
 
Ste_Nova said:
their not crazy cheap they are almost 10 years old!
Click to expand...

I love this logic.

10 years, and 10x the car an S3 is. So S3's must be £1200 now? :p

I saw a pre facelift S3 with 110k sell for £1570 the other day.

The used car market doesn't want an expensive to insure,maintain and run AWD Audi at the moment.
 
16Klappe said:
I love this logic.

10 years, and 10x the car an S3 is. So S3's must be £1200 now? :p

I saw a pre facelift S3 with 110k sell for £1570 the other day.

The used car market doesn't want an expensive to insure,maintain and run AWD Audi at the moment.
Click to expand...
All good for the buyer.... my mate bought a 51 plate A3 for £300 ..granted it had turbo issues but its all good...:rock:
 
That's about all they are worth, even with the Recaros and S4 Avus wheels my car is £800 tops.
 
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