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  1. #1
    Yohan87's Avatar
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    2013 - Which tuning path?

    Until last week I was quite content to leave my daily Bora at a "Stage 2" level of tune, that was until s3dave put his Relentless v3 manifold up for sale.

    The hardware is currently as follows: -

    1.8T AMK
    SFS 3" TIP w/ Jetex Open Cone
    eBay FMIC (To be replaced with a Welly Cooler in a couple of weeks)
    Pipewerx 3" DP w/ De-Cat
    Milltek 2.75" Resonated Cat-Back
    R-Tech Mapped (280bhp / 295lb-ft)

    Now that I've bought the Relentless v3 from Dave, if I was to fit that then I'd want my rods doing at the same time so I'd be leaving the car with Bill (Badger5) for rod and manifold fitting. I'd also replace the SFS TIP with a B5 v2.2 TIP.

    Niki (R-Tech) suggested if I'm keeping the stock K04-023 then it would be worthwhile to fit an uprated actuator, presumably Forge.

    I also understand the benefits of WMI, however I'd rather have my car mapped to run less power and not have to rely on WMI.

    The question is, what sort of gains am I going to see from fitting the above?

    I'm wondering if I'd be as well going for a beachbuggy hybrid given the work involved in fitting the rods/relentless.

    Is WMI essential with a hybrid?

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  3. #2
    RIP S3dave

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    if pushing for higher power wmi to me is an essential a component as a TIP
    if wanting conservative power (which is where I would ask why if wanting hybrid at all?) then tuned appropriately its not essential.. but well advised to
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  4. #3
    Yohan87's Avatar
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    Cheers Bill.

    My thought with the hybrid was allowing it to make similar power as the K04-023, but without being run at it's limits i.e. my thinking was that a K04-023 making 300bhp would be working way harder/hotter than a hybrid making 300bhp?

    Maybe I have that wrong though.

  5. #4
    RIP S3dave

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    it should be possible with all supporting mods yea.. as prawnies demonstrated recently
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  6. #5
    Yohan87's Avatar
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    335bhp or something without WMI wasn't it? 350+ with?

  7. #6
    RIP S3dave

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    just a little over 300bhp without wmi... dont think it was 335bhp without...
    ask prawny - he was there and its his car after all - lol
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  8. #7
    Yohan87's Avatar
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    Ah, I got those figures from his thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Prawn View Post

    Niki carried on mapping, without the help of the water meth at first. it went up to 325bhp/318lbft first, then a few more tweaks saw 331bhp / 327lbft, with the car swallowing up LOADS of ignition advance and not pulling any corrections at all. Boost was kept at a peak of 21psi, which we both agreed we didn't want to go above.

    Just before lunch, a few more tweaks saw us at 344bhp and 343lbft, still on the smallest meth nozzle, rated by AEM to 200bhp. Still seeing very little heat produced, and no corrections to the timing at all.
    So probably stock turbo with no WMI I'd be looking around 300bhp/310lb-ft.

  9. #8
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    on largeport AGU
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  10. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yohan87 View Post



    So probably stock turbo with no WMI I'd be looking around 300bhp/310lb-ft.
    Well that's wringing the neck out of it, iirc Westy only just got a tad over 300 on standard turbo, but it was brand spanking new build. Can't remember whether he has WMI

  11. #10
    Prawn's Avatar
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    331bhp without WMI Bill, 353 with, both at 21psi.

    Running at 331 with the WMI switched off and no timing pull, reasonably warm though. Much happier with the WMI running.

    Westy has WMI yes, and even then it only made 300 numbers on a cold morning, during the mapping it reached 296 I believe after prolonged abuse.

    More has been seen from AGU lumps with the higher CR though, Niki did one which was consistently putting out 304 without WMI on a stock turbo, and a small port (but high comp) AUM that made 299 without.

    edit: That's not to put down westys 300bhp at all, anything 290+ on the standard turbo is pretty epic!
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  12. #11
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    There's no two ways about it, 2013 is going to be a great year for K04 1.8t's.

    With Bills new inlet manifolds, Niki's mapping and Dans hybrid we've got it all in our laps.

    Lets all go out and reap the rewards of everybody elses R&D work
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    Then never do them.

  13. #12
    Yohan87's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prawn View Post
    331bhp without WMI Bill, 353 with, both at 21psi.

    Running at 331 with the WMI switched off and no timing pull, reasonably warm though. Much happier with the WMI running.

    Westy has WMI yes, and even then it only made 300 numbers on a cold morning, during the mapping it reached 296 I believe after prolonged abuse.

    More has been seen from AGU lumps with the higher CR though, Niki did one which was consistently putting out 304 without WMI on a stock turbo, and a small port (but high comp) AUM that made 299 without.

    edit: That's not to put down westys 300bhp at all, anything 290+ on the standard turbo is pretty epic!
    Yeah that's what I'd like, something over the 300 mark but without needing WMI.

    Looks like a large port head and a hybrid turbo can achieve that.

  14. #13
    Prawn's Avatar
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    yea, easily mate. Mine makes 290bhp just on actuator pressure at 1 bar, and was producing 307bhp from 18psi quite happily.

    WMI is still preferable to be honest though, it's just a good thing to have!

    Also remember though, that if you're tuning something like a hybrid, but keeping it conservative on the power, you'll be considerably down on torque compared to a normal ko4. a hyrbid will make 300bhp from very little boost, and subsequently not have masses of torque, where a ko4 will make 300bhp when pushed from lots more boost, and make lots more torque at the same power level.

    Much like a stock 225 S3 with it's ko4 is around 200lbft, where a tuned ko3S car that also has 225bhp will have more like 260lbft, as it's taking more boost to get to the same power levels.

    My hybrid at 300bhp didn't FEEL any quicker than a 280bhp S3 with lots of torque. it was quicker, but it didn't feel like it because it lacked the kick in the back.
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    Prawns TFSI Turbo'd 1.8T Track Car

    But I know nothing so ignore me.

  15. #14
    Yohan87's Avatar
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    Cheers Prawn.

    I think the best thing for me at the moment is to fit the rods, mani, actuator, and large port head then get it mapped again and see how it goes. With those changes alone I should notice a difference and I imagine it will be pretty nice to drive.

    I realise it will struggle to reach 300bhp with the above but the area under the curve should be quite nice.

    At least that way the engine is future proofed and if I wanted to go further i.e. injectors, WMI, hybrid then it should be quite straight forward to do so.

  16. #15
    Prawn's Avatar
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    Pretty much what westy has dude, he has 300bhp now, but every single thing is in place, including injectors for a hybrid setup on his car.

    Just add in a turbo from Beachbuggy and a map revision and he'd be at 340bhp overnight
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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    But I know nothing so ignore me.

  17. #16
    Yohan87's Avatar
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    Sounds like a plan.

    I think my injector DC is actually quite low at the moment so I'm sure there is head room for Niki to play with when I add the extra "flowy" bits mentioned above.

  18. #17
    Yohan87's Avatar
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    Quick question, when fitting an AGU head can you retain the AMK rocker cover or do I have to switch to bolt down coils to suit the AGU rocker cover?

  19. #18
    Prawn's Avatar
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    no, use your rocker cover mate.

    You'll also need to switch the VVT tensioner over from your old head as the AGU hasn't got VVT
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Prawns TFSI Turbo'd 1.8T Track Car

    But I know nothing so ignore me.

  20. #19
    Yohan87's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prawn View Post
    no, use your rocker cover mate.

    You'll also need to switch the VVT tensioner over from your old head as the AGU hasn't got VVT
    Yep that's cool.

    Once I source an AGU head, I'll get Andrew@ALD to port/polish it and port match it to the relentless. Then I'll supply it to Bill so we he fits my rods he can swap the heads over at the same time

 

 

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