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Thread: ASN Dyno Day @ Badger5 - Sunday 11th November 2012

  1. #281
    RIP S3dave

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    Quote Originally Posted by aragorn View Post
    261hp from a K03s?! Some funny business there methinks.
    in dyno terms, nothing funny about it..
    its unbelievable i grant you... that there's a k03 wheel in there (teasing - lol).... but if it is, its stunning.. Me and niki were chatting about it, and he's 100% confident its k03s inside... despite me thinking it maybe is'nt (cant be can it ) All will be revealed when its dismantled and turned into a hybrid by dan at some point, so all will be revealed..
    freakish... and not just powered by the turbo... its got a lot of meth going in there as well, and some very good optimisation my niki
    Last edited by badger5; 13th November 2012 at 09:38.
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  3. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by slappy_dunbar View Post


    How did the car do? Was this with the Garrett compressor fitted?
    It bombed to be honest doug. It made 250bhp but there was something wrong as it was boosting to 22psi and holding it to the rev limiter and still making around 275grams in the maf. I swapped out the Vvt last night,coded it out and it feels 100 times better already plus the egts are about 100 degrees lower so I'm wondering if my Vvt was not working correctly . I'm hopefully going to head back to bills in a few weeks to see it fairs again. I ran it on actuator pressure yesterday at 10psi and it made 222grams and felt quicker than it was running badly at 286!


    Bill I've sent you an email.

  4. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by aragorn View Post
    having said that, RobbieC on SCN has managed 275hp on bills rollers with a K03 hybrid with a 2078 (RS4) compressor wheel which is only very marginally larger than the 2075 in the K03S, however robbieC's turbo has a huge RS6 turbine fitted, rather than the absolutely tiny thing used as standard in the K03S, and robbies engine is also seriously worked over, rebored to 82.5mm etc
    robbies made no more power from 1900cc than itr did when 1800cc, it made significantly more torque however mid range before tubby ran out of puff as it did before. dont ignore wmi contribution to the power
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  5. #284
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    Meth is King. How many recent builds have we seen where the impossible is being made possible by the help of Mr Meth
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  6. #285
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    I vote you do the K03 strip down Bill, after all it made it on yours rollers so you should get the honors

    Meth is next thing on my shopping list, whilst I was MIA on here I set up a group buy for Devils Own meth kits as you know. I might ask PT if I can promote it a little bit on here to get a few more people involved.

    Was the bottom line from you that the basic kit was best to go for, and that their progressive controllers had been known to be on the blink? Bruce has told me they've made a new controller which is epic, and if I can get 10 orders he will ensure a new batch is sent across so we can get the new controller.
    I quite often say I'm going to do things.

    Then never do them.

  7. #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by 16Klappe View Post
    I vote you do the K03 strip down Bill, after all it made it on yours rollers so you should get the honors

    Meth is next thing on my shopping list, whilst I was MIA on here I set up a group buy for Devils Own meth kits as you know. I might ask PT if I can promote it a little bit on here to get a few more people involved.

    Was the bottom line from you that the basic kit was best to go for, and that their progressive controllers had been known to be on the blink? Bruce has told me they've made a new controller which is epic, and if I can get 10 orders he will ensure a new batch is sent across so we can get the new controller.
    whats Epic about the new controller? Reliability being top of the list for me.. I am looking for a supplier of wmi systems I can "rely on". Devils own I used but their controller mortality sucked so I had to drop them. AEM now seem to be just as unreliable...

    If their new controller is reliable I would be interested so long as its not silly priced.
    For simplicity, and lupo is running my old Aquamist pressure switch on/off simple setup currently whilst its aem controller has been sent away under warranty, and it seems to work fine.
    Simple pressure switch + relay.. lot to be said for it.
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  8. #287
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    Quote Originally Posted by beachbuggy View Post
    It bombed to be honest doug. It made 250bhp but there was something wrong as it was boosting to 22psi and holding it to the rev limiter and still making around 275grams in the maf. I swapped out the Vvt last night,coded it out and it feels 100 times better already plus the egts are about 100 degrees lower so I'm wondering if my Vvt was not working correctly . I'm hopefully going to head back to bills in a few weeks to see it fairs again. I ran it on actuator pressure yesterday at 10psi and it made 222grams and felt quicker than it was running badly at 286!


    Bill I've sent you an email.
    got your email dan..
    uploaded your missing plots now, sorry about that. sort by date and yours @ the top.

    Directory Listing of /bin/Dyno/asn-111112/
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  9. #288
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    meth is gay

  10. #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by R-Tech-Nick View Post
    K04-001 and K03s use same size comp wheel but the 001 has a new design wheel.

    The K03s turbine side is the issue, main issues is waste gate blowing open even with upgrade actuators with silly strong springs, the k03s wants to crack open and hover open once full boost happens around 3000rpm then it just opens wider and wider as rpm increases. but if we slow the turbo down a tad and reduce midrange boost the waste gate opening will be less higher up the rpm rnage, we make up the lost power up by running a tad leaner with strong midrange advance mapping, then kick the n75 to turbo kick the boost up higher in the rpm range to allow the torque to hold longer making the 260bhp peak number, but as soon as we do this the wastegate creeps open and torque dies off.

    The K03s will flow 285bhp.... with a bar clamping the waste gate shut solid. but car and turbo makes funny sounds and pinks like feck.
    Here's the logs of the runs from Sunday on Mylo's where you can see, there's duty cycle left in it
    Code:
    Group A: '002 Group B: '020 Group C: '118
    Engine Speed Engine Load Injection Timing Mass Air Flow Timing Retardation Timing Retardation Timing Retardation Timing Retardation Engine Speed Intake Air Wastegate (N75) Boost Pressure
    TIME (G28) (G70) TIME Cylinder 1 Cylinder 2 Cylinder 3 Cylinder 4 TIME (G28) Temperature (G42) Duty Cycle (actual)
    STAMP /min % ms g/s STAMP °KW °KW °KW °KW STAMP /min °C % mbar
    28.07 1680 32.3 3.74 10.47 27.47 0 0 0 0 27.77 1680 23 0 1030
    28.97 1760 75.2 8.84 30.03 28.37 0 0 0 0 28.67 1680 24 0 1020
    29.88 1800 103.8 10.88 38.11 29.27 0 0 0 0 29.57 1760 24 100 1220
    30.79 1880 113.5 12.58 42.08 30.18 0 0 0 0 30.47 1800 23 100 1410
    31.69 2280 148.1 17 71.36 31.09 0 0 0 0 31.39 2160 22 100 1610
    32.6 2720 190.2 22.1 107 31.99 0 0 0 0 32.29 2600 18 100 2120
    33.5 3160 191.7 23.12 115.36 32.9 0 0 0 0 33.2 3040 15 71 2490
    34.41 3560 191.7 23.12 134.81 33.8 0 0 0 0 34.1 3440 14 70.6 2400
    35.31 3960 191.7 23.12 151.33 34.71 0 0 0 3 35.01 3800 14 70.6 2330
    36.22 4320 191.7 23.8 169.47 35.61 0 0 0 3 35.91 4200 14 72.5 2400
    37.12 4720 191.7 24.14 184.31 36.52 0 0 0 2.3 36.82 4600 15 83.1 2420
    38.03 5040 191.7 22.78 189.83 37.42 0 3 0 2.3 37.73 4920 15 89.4 2380
    38.93 5360 187.2 22.1 191.75 38.33 0 3 0 1.5 38.63 5240 15 89.8 2290
    39.84 5680 177.4 21.42 192.47 39.23 0 2.3 0 1.5 39.53 5560 15 93.3 2240
    40.74 6000 175.2 21.76 194.75 40.14 0 2.3 0 0.8 40.44 5880 16 98 2150
    41.66 6280 157.1 21.42 191.25 41.04 0 1.5 0 0.8 41.36 6200 16 91 2070
    42.55 6600 150.4 18.7 188.72 41.97 0 1.5 0 0 42.26 6520 20 82.7 2450
    43.46 6920 142.1 18.02 187.28 42.85 0 0.8 0 0 43.15 6800 21 82.7 2410
    95.95 1480 93.2 9.86 28.56 95.34 0 0 0 0 95.64 1480 24 100 1140
    96.85 1520 98.5 10.88 28.08 96.26 0 0 0 3 96.56 1480 24 100 1270
    97.77 1840 110.5 12.24 41.47 97.16 0 0 0 3 97.47 1680 23 100 1340
    98.67 2240 142.1 16.32 65.58 98.07 0 0 0 2.3 98.37 2120 23 100 1570
    99.58 2680 187.2 21.76 102.53 98.97 0 0 0 1.5 99.28 2520 20 100 2080
    100.48 3120 190.2 23.12 111.42 99.88 0 0 0 1.5 100.18 3000 17 70.6 2490
    101.39 3520 191.7 22.44 125.17 100.78 0 3 0 0.8 101.09 3400 15 70.2 2410
    102.29 3920 191.7 22.78 146.67 101.69 0 3 0 0.8 101.99 3800 15 70.2 2410
    103.2 4280 191.7 23.46 166.03 102.59 0 2.3 0 0 102.9 4160 15 71.8 2410
    104.1 4680 191.7 24.14 183.83 103.5 0 2.3 0 0 103.8 4560 15 83.5 2500
    105.01 5000 191.7 23.12 188.67 104.41 0 1.5 0 0 104.71 4880 16 88.6 2420
    105.91 5320 187.2 21.42 188.86 105.31 0 1.5 0 0 105.61 5200 17 89.8 2310
    106.82 5640 176.7 20.74 192.14 106.21 0 0.8 0 0 106.52 5520 17 92.2 2190
    107.73 5960 170.7 20.4 192.72 107.13 0 0.8 0 0 107.42 5840 17 97.6 2160
    108.63 6280 163.2 21.08 193.89 108.02 0 0.8 0 0 108.33 6160 17 100 2130
    109.53 6600 157.9 24.14 192.72 108.93 0 0 0 0 109.24 6480 18 99.2 2060
    110.44 6840 130.1 16.66 182.67 109.84 0 0 0 0 110.15 6760 20 72.5 2440
    111.34 7160 137.6 16.32 187.64 110.75 0 0 0 0 111.05 7080 23 81.2 2450
    112.25 6320 9.8 1.36 3.14 111.65 0 0 0 0 111.96 7000 24 0 2180
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  11. #290
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    Quote Originally Posted by badger5 View Post
    whats Epic about the new controller? Reliability being top of the list for me.. I am looking for a supplier of wmi systems I can "rely on". Devils own I used but their controller mortality sucked so I had to drop them. AEM now seem to be just as unreliable...

    If their new controller is reliable I would be interested so long as its not silly priced.
    For simplicity, and lupo is running my old Aquamist pressure switch on/off simple setup currently whilst its aem controller has been sent away under warranty, and it seems to work fine.
    Simple pressure switch + relay.. lot to be said for it.
    If you don't mind I'll ask Bruce to give you a call, he'll obviously be able to do a lot better job of explaining it to me.

    Last contact I had from his was as follows -

    Morning Jardo, I thought I'd let you know that i'd also do the offered discount on tanks as well, plus if people would rather have a Solenoid instead of a check valve then they can upgrade for £14 extra.

    Although our check valve is the best check valve possible. This is 100% custom made, and installation is as simple as cutting the tubing and inserting in. Our check valve features a 2 piece design, so its field serviceable.

    I've often heard that people think other companies nozzles are better, I can assure you this isn't true, With our nozzles You can't find a better nozzle anywhere. The DVL-2700 features 1/8' npt threads on the outside of the nozzle so that it can be screwed in from the outside of your intake. With built-in O-rings, leaks are something that are only associated with our competitors. The removable screw-in 80 micron filter allows for easy cleaning, and the nozzles are nickel-plated to protect from methanol and increase their life and will atomize from as low as 40psi water/meth pressure they also have a recessed orifice for even more improved atomization which a lot of competitors don't have.

    The kits all come with a 12 month warranty, like any electrical component we do get some failures, although 50% of those failures either aren't faulty or have gone faulty through bad fitting.
    We do have some of the new Generation 2 DVC-30 controllers instock (although not officially released) but I might not have enough to fulfil straight away a group buy.
    I've done my own research on the controllers and seen a few snippets posted by Bruce on forums he uses and basically he is saying it is greatly improved. "Epic" was maybe a bit too strong...lol
    I quite often say I'm going to do things.

    Then never do them.

  12. #291
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    194.75g/s from a ko3s, haha. Using the 0.8 rule that'd suggest ~ 243bhp, so I guess the other 18bhp is coming from the timing allowed by shed loads of meth!

    I've seen other peoples problems with the AEM controllers, and I'm thankful that I've not suffered any of these issues yet, but if and when the time does come, I'll definitely be fitting a simple pressure switch rather than putting my trust in another controller.
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  13. #292
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prawn View Post
    194.75g/s from a ko3s, haha. Using the 0.8 rule that'd suggest ~ 243bhp, so I guess the other 18bhp is coming from the timing allowed by shed loads of meth!
    Yep..... meth certainly is'nt hurting the cause
    Last edited by badger5; 13th November 2012 at 11:13.
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    Gower has a plan... I need to earn my "gold tuner" award I cannot afford to buy one like most...lol

    Myles car is ready to have the beach buggy hybrid fitted to his car with the aim of 280bhp.... So why not me and Myles book in at Bills to have a morning of dyno testing with the k03s with WMI and without WMI so we can get final numbers for both combinations. I have bet Bill a few beers the I can make it do a run at 270bhp with WMI (fooking wild claim) but I see head room in the logs to run leaner and a tad more timing. We can live map the car on the dyno at Bills to "eek" it closer to 270bhp. anything below 270bhp and the beers are on me that night. Once we have finished having fun on the dyno we can use Bills ramp and tools to swap out the k03s with the hybrid, at this point the turbo will be inspected by Bill to confirm its a k03s then send to Dan to see how the turbo has coped with the power its been running.
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    ps Bill, I will bring that £50 with me to say thanks you putting the air temp probe on Pauls cuppa tea.........

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    Quote Originally Posted by R-Tech-Nick View Post
    Gower has a plan... I need to earn my "gold tuner" award I cannot afford to buy one like most...lol

    Myles car is ready to have the beach buggy hybrid fitted to his car with the aim of 280bhp.... So why not me and Myles book in at Bills to have a morning of dyno testing with the k03s with WMI and without WMI so we can get final numbers for both combinations. I have bet Bill a few beers the I can make it do a run at 270bhp with WMI (fooking wild claim) but I see head room in the logs to run leaner and a tad more timing. We can live map the car on the dyno at Bills to "eek" it closer to 270bhp. anything below 270bhp and the beers are on me that night. Once we have finished having fun on the dyno we can use Bills ramp and tools to swap out the k03s with the hybrid, at this point the turbo will be inspected by Bill to confirm its a k03s then send to Dan to see how the turbo has coped with the power its been running.
    Game on, I down with that.
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  17. #296
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    If i'm free I'll happily make the road trip up to see this.. Aiming a bit low @ 280 on the hybrid arent you nick? im hoping to see at least 300 from it!!!

  18. #297
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    spec of said hybrid?

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    Quote Originally Posted by superkarl View Post
    spec of said hybrid?

    Rs6 turbine, non clipped. 2280 compressor. K04 compressor housing with k03 outlet . Ported and polished turbine housing. Large pad thrust collar and washer with upgraded thrust bearing. I believe they plan on running a stock actuator to begin. On paper the internals can flow 320bhp. The compressor has a 3% smaller inducer to what Bill is currently running.

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    Quote Originally Posted by beachbuggy View Post
    If i'm free I'll happily make the road trip up to see this.. Aiming a bit low @ 280 on the hybrid arent you nick? im hoping to see at least 300 from it!!!
    My worry is exhaust manifold and the amount of heat and pressure building up on number3, my home brew hybrids with k04-001 turbine side with k04-023 made 300bhp on stock manifold but cylinder 3 had the be kept in check with WMI. But saying the the 023 with rs6 wheel turbine should flow a lot better and reduce heat pass back.

    Back to my usual answer and the answer I gave Myles when I first met him "Only one way to find out" to his question asking me how much power can we get from his k03s.

    I am looking forward to aiming for 300bhp if your happy for me to try. I might covert Myles mapping to an EGT map setup so we can log whats going on and gain some real data for R&D.

    Nick

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    once upon a time a hybrid was such and such a spec. now when people throw around the term you have NO idea what it could be lol.
    all your fault, keep it up

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    Quote Originally Posted by superkarl View Post
    once upon a time a hybrid was such and such a spec. now when people throw around the term you have NO idea what it could be lol.
    all your fault, keep it up
    Tell me about I am seeing so called "hybrids" making less power than stock turbos. The turbo technics k03 hybird is a disaster setup using the VXR comp wheel and a clipped turbine of some sort. Out the box it made 212bhp with 100% duty cycle, we had to add a forge actuator with blue spring to just get close to 250bhp by ringing the nuts of it. It just didnt work..... no fast spooling, no decent midrange grunt and very very poor peak flow with boost tailing off far to fast..

    The only ko3 hybrid to give me a boner and made me smile in the last 2 years was the one Dan built in his shed for Coates's AGU A3 which made 280bhp far to easy and flowed like a the hoover dam.

  23. #302
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    lol that good eh.
    maybe we should keep a diary or list of all the different hybrids about and their owners and leave it in the stickies. it really is THAT hard to follow what is what.

    at least the top dog hasnt really been changed or beaten....YET. ko4, 2283, rs6, ported. Just a shame about dans hiccups with the garrett-ko4 at bills

  24. #303
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    Quote Originally Posted by beachbuggy View Post
    Rs6 turbine, non clipped. 2280 compressor. K04 compressor housing with k03 outlet . Ported and polished turbine housing. Large pad thrust collar and washer with upgraded thrust bearing. I believe they plan on running a stock actuator to begin. On paper the internals can flow 320bhp. The compressor has a 3% smaller inducer to what Bill is currently running.
    Same spec as mine then, but in A3 fitment? Be good to see what it can do

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  25. #304
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    Quote Originally Posted by aragorn View Post
    Same spec as mine then, but in A3 fitment? Be good to see what it can do
    and where is your thread?!?

  26. #305
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    Quote Originally Posted by aragorn View Post
    Same spec as mine then, but in A3 fitment? Be good to see what it can do
    yes, the same.

    I possibly should give my TT to nick to see what he can ring out of it..

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    Turbos still sitting in its box :P

    Cant really afford to take the Avant off the road until my exhausts sorted on the saloon (a week tomorrow) as while it should be straight forward i cant risk ending up with no car.

    I also need to get it converted to ME7 before i can get it tuned!

    2000 A4 1.8T Sport Quattro Avant, Berry Pearl
    2000 A4 1.8T Sport Quattro Saloon, Black-ish
    1997 S4 - PPC £999 Challenge Track Car Build
    TD5 Land Rover Defender build


  28. #307
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    Quote Originally Posted by aragorn View Post
    Turbos still sitting in its box :P

    Cant really afford to take the Avant off the road until my exhausts sorted on the saloon (a week tomorrow) as while it should be straight forward i cant risk ending up with no car.

    I also need to get it converted to ME7 before i can get it tuned!
    get it done...lol

  29. #308
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    Quote Originally Posted by beachbuggy View Post
    yes, the same.

    I possibly should give my TT to nick to see what he can ring out of it..
    when ur ready dude

  30. #309
    Reverse Gear

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    does that mean I get a TT to rag the **** out of in the name of R&D ? It works on the Leon
    R-Tech Terrorist Squad, Ultimate edition

  31. #310
    slappy_dunbar's Avatar
    Let's Do This

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    Quote Originally Posted by superkarl View Post
    lol that good eh.
    maybe we should keep a diary or list of all the different hybrids about and their owners and leave it in the stickies... at least the top dog hasnt really been changed or beaten....YET. ko4, 2283, rs6, ported.

    Is that Welly you're speaking of?

  32. #311
    Prawn's Avatar
    My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by slappy_dunbar View Post

    Is that Welly you're speaking of?
    It's mine now

    I think Karl means in general terms, the top hybrid commonly available to us is the 2283/rs6 ko4 framed hybrid.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Prawns TFSI Turbo'd 1.8T Track Car

    But I know nothing so ignore me.

  33. #312
    Welly's Avatar
    VX220 SC Driver :)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Prawn View Post
    It's mine now
    Share and share alike
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "Marriage is like a coffin and each kid is another nail."
    Homer Simpson





 

 
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