whats the best turbo for achieving 400 bhp or should i just go hybrid

M

mclean1988

Registered User
Joined
May 13, 2012
Messages
34
Reaction score
0
Points
6
Location
bristol
hey all,

i am taking my car off the road shortly and i am looking to upgrade the turbo , i hope to achieve around 400BHP and was wondering which turbo is best for this, i understand that it isnt down to the turbo alone and all the ancilliaries will need to be upgraded as such.

The problem is i dont want to end up spending a **** load of money and only end up gettin say 30 bhp more than hybrid because ive chosen then wrong kit etc !

also has anyone ran the 1.9tdi crank for long, i understand this is a way to increase the stroke but is it good for reliablity etc ??

Cheers for any help
 
dont go hybrid many guys are having issues, just get a gt28 or gtx3071 or something
 
Andrew has had a fairly iffy time with a tdi crank and personally I think normal stroker is more than enough...

GT3076r flows a little too much too soon on a 1.8 so would need a stroker to make the best out of it although it can be mapped accordingly and have seen good results... nicest setup I have seen to date is a normal 2008cc stroker (TFSI crank) with TSR tubular v-band mani, GT3071r with a billet comp wheel and 0.82 Tial v-band hotside... a nice easy 450+hp which 20psi of boost at 3.5k rpm

To get this sort of power (anything beyond a hybrid tbh) will cost money to do right... all the high power builds I have seen have had proper built engines including full valve train etc (not cams though), tubular manifolds and large inlets so not a cheap option... I have learnt the hard way that if you want power then you have to do it right...

Its not just about the largest turbo to do the job as if the rest of the engine can't do anything with the airflow you could bolt a GT35 on to it and still only make hybrid power...

<tuffty/>
 
HTA3017 on tial hotside, external gate........ :D
Stroker ftw also plot below is the one Tufftys describing

spool nearly like k04 but muchos power/torque band...

DynoIT%20-%20james-hta3071-fin.jpg
 
badger5 said:
HTA3017 on tial hotside, external gate........ :D
Stroker ftw also plot below is the one Tufftys describing

spool nearly like k04 but muchos power/torque band...
Click to expand...

Bill,

What would be a sort of rough cost to take a stage 2 car, and take it to the above figures? A drive in/drive out conversion.
 
hey bill ,

thanks for the p**n , can you clarify how this was stroked i.e crank type piston size?? and where the turbo was purchased ?? if you know, again your input in the matter is greatly appreciated
 
Mate simples bager5 is an IE. Dealer get urself a 9:1 comp ratio pistons 83mm bore some tuscan riffle rods 2.0 fsi vw crank as tuffty said the rest tubular maifold and a gtx3071r or so ull be smiling. Thats what im going through atm
 
a few sellers of HTA, Forced Performance in US...
Pagparts can also supply a billet gt30... and tial hotside etc etc..

2ltr stroker tsfi crank, 83mm pistons
guys build thread is on scn>> James' LCR - 2008cc Stroker HTA GT3071r! BIG Turbo Build - SEAT Cupra.net - SEAT Forum

happy reading

as for parts etc to do this, I am indeed an IE supplier who can supply much of the required hardware
Engine build 1st, then turbo spec...

power is dependant on budget as always..
 
Sevv said:
Mate simples bager5 is an IE. Dealer get urself a 9:1 comp ratio pistons 83mm bore some tuscan riffle rods 2.0 fsi vw crank as tuffty said the rest tubular maifold and a gtx3071r or so ull be smiling. Thats what im going through atm
Click to expand...

Basically identical to what mine will be :)

Just need a crank now.....if anyone knows of any for sale (shameless plug) lol ;)
 
The only problem i have had with the stroker kit and TDI crank is my choice of piston rings

I kept on using Total seal rings with the JE pistons and have had nothing but problems with them, I have now swapped to JE pro seals that came with the pistons

With the TDI crank you will need to machine the pistons s they hit the oil jets
 
450bhp ?? You reading that as 45lb/min at 65% efficiency?

A pr of 2.5 at 72-74% gives around 375bhp. Surely that's a true value..
 
Doesn't mean anything in reality... not seen one get past 380hp on a 1.8 20v even with every bolt on accessory known to man... on a 2ltr stroker or larger capacity engine then maybe...

<tuffty/>
 
Didnt Alex`s (AKS) old Ibiza end up close to the 400 figure? Although i never did see a final figure before it got stripped.
 
A couple, they weren't on 1.8's but on 2 litre's.

It's worth noting that Garrett rate it officially to 450bhp. Granted, it's working hard, but certainly worth considering for a responsive engine.

Rick
 
beachbuggy said:
450bhp ?? You reading that as 45lb/min at 65% efficiency?

A pr of 2.5 at 72-74% gives around 375bhp. Surely that's a true value..
Click to expand...

Not quite but I like your thinking!

The efficiency is a measure of how much heat is placed into the gas when compressed. The higher the efficiency, the cooler the air. However, we have intercoolers which help to get most of this heat back out. But greater efficiency does mean an otherwise smaller intercooler can be used.

Rick
 
Jason.s said:
Didnt Alex`s (AKS) old Ibiza end up close to the 400 figure? Although i never did see a final figure before it got stripped.
Click to expand...

yes, on a maha dyno, same as backdrafts 400bhp 2871 kits
look closer and see the 340atw figures however, and the 100bhp rolling losses added to make the >400bhp number
Hmmmmm

370-380bhp max'd on 1.8t 2bar, runnning effing hot, on 0.63 hotside
spool much like the GT30... which is'nt working its nadgers off to achieve the same numbers.... I know which I would prefer.

Never yet seen a 2871 manage more than high 300's......... not even on stroker on 0.86 hotside (380bhp from memory)
 
There are 4 variants of GT2871 listed on the Garrett website each with different power ratings and are for engine 1.8ltrs to 3ltrs
GT2871Comparisons.jpg


Whatever rating it suggests will always be subject to what you bolt it on to and its setup... in context this discussion revolves around a 1.8 20v... not seen 400hp from a 1.8 20v with a GT2871...

<tuffty/>
 
are these any good on the 1.8t ?

GTX2863R / GTX2867R / GTX2860R
 
badger5 said:
yes, on a maha dyno
Click to expand...

Good old Marlin`s.. I`ve seen it over read on my gf`s old 3 MPS but then others swear by it to be really accurate.

All i know is they strapped a 6MPS down to the rollers by opening the back doors and putting a strap across the back seats, car kicked out when he let off at top end and the guy nearly soiled his pants lol. Same day put a TT on with haldex still running and wondered why the graph was all over the place...
 
Anyone used the 2nd gen gtx2867r or gtx2871r could I get 400 bhp and 400ftlb with rods and no vale train work ?
 
Doubt very much you would get 400ftlb (400ftlb equates to 533hp @ 7000rpm for example)... 400hp @ 7200rpm requires 291ftlbs... so 400ftlb (if actually plausible) would be at a fairly low rpm and drop off substantially..

You would need to consider doing exhaust valves and springs at the very least... these are failing almost as often as rods...

If planning to use the GTX28's externally gated with a tubular merge collector manifold then 400hp could happen.. if internally gated T25 then not so much

<tuffty/>
 
Been told eurocarparts exhaust valves are solid filled any thoughts?
 
RaulQTS said:
Been told eurocarparts exhaust valves are solid filled any thoughts?
Click to expand...
Don't buy valves from ECP dude... so much fail... OE valves for turbo 20v's are sodium filled... ECP and GSF generally sell solid valves suited to NA applications... DO NOT use these on a turbo engine as they WILL fail :)

You want at the very least supertech inconel triple groove exhaust valves and Cat Cams gold springs... also get the valve guides checked and replaced as required... exhaust guides will have worn... inlets should be ok but doesn't hurt to check... std inlet valves are ok for this application

<tuffty/>
 
A gt2871r will get you 400bhp ;)
 
Just saying as mentioned it wasn't possible lol and on 1.8t
 
audi upgrades
NIGE28 said:
Just saying as mentioned it wasn't possible lol and on 1.8t
Click to expand...

You said in your post that it 'will' get you 400hp... reality is very different so your statement would be more accurate if you said it 'may' get you 400hp...

Never said its impossible... but it is improbable...

<tuffty/>
 
What about the ko4-380 hybrid turbo package that badger 5 sells? Does it not say that 400bhp was possible with that. Obviously with supporting mods like rods,inconel exhaust valves, cat gold exhaust springs. Would that not see the figures ur after?
 
hydro s3 said:
What about the ko4-380 hybrid turbo package that badger 5 sells? Does it not say that 400bhp was possible with that. Obviously with supporting mods like rods,inconel exhaust valves, cat gold exhaust springs. Would that not see the figures ur after?
Click to expand...
You will note its sold as a , and I quote>>> "Power Range 340-380bhp ** Subject to spec of supporting mods." <<<

Yes we've got more out of it on our lupo AUM motor, 402bhp, but this is a well modded unique build. It proves whats possible, and it has +30bhp more than its previous hybrid
 
RaulQTS said:
Anyone used the 2nd gen gtx2867r or gtx2871r could I get 400 bhp and 400ftlb with rods and no vale train work ?
Click to expand...

I'm at 420bhp 390lbs ft on a gtx2867r that's with cams and vernier pulley. I managed 404bhp 390lbs ft without cams and at a slightly lower boost.

From what I've heard, there's not really much difference in the gen1 and gen2, the compressor maps are very similar apparently.
 
JonnyDerv said:
I'm at 420bhp 390lbs ft on a gtx2867r that's with cams and vernier pulley. I managed 404bhp 390lbs ft without cams and at a slightly lower boost.

From what I've heard, there's not really much difference in the gen1 and gen2, the compressor maps are very similar apparently.
Click to expand...
Red = Gen 1
Blue = Gen 2
+5% flow based on the compressor maps.
Better surge line
 

Attachments

  • GTX2867R_V_GTX2867R_V2.png
    GTX2867R_V_GTX2867R_V2.png
    133.3 KB · Views: 486
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

A
Should i go for the turbo - Please help.
Replies
11
Views
1K
foolish3uk
foolish3uk
B
Whats the best Ko3s Hybrid?
Replies
35
Views
35K
b1gdave83
B
A
what bumper should i go for
Replies
6
Views
791
kwistof
kwistof
Lee172
Which one to go for??? Hybrid or BT
Replies
14
Views
2K
JS1500
JS1500
Spec
Which Grill should I go for?
Replies
8
Views
1K
Spec
Spec
Top
Back