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  1. #1
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    First 3rd gear logs, don't look right.

    Hi Guys,

    Since i bought the car, i have always felt that the map is not quite right, can someone please have a look, seems like its only making about 237bhp. EGT seems high, but if anyone can give more advise that would be great,



    Saturday 4 August 2012 18:36:52:47470 VCDS Version: Release 11.11.3 (x64) Data version: 20120401
    8N0 906 018 J 1.8L R4/5VT G 0003
    Group A: '112 Group B: '003 Group C: '020
    Temperature Load Bin. Bits Bin. Bits RPM Mass Flow Load Ign. Timing Idle Stabilization Idle Stabilization Idle Stabilization Idle Stabilization
    TIME TIME TIME
    Marker STAMP °C % STAMP /min g/s % °BTDC STAMP °KW °KW °KW °KW
    0.01 620 0 0.29 2120 44.58 92.9 14.3 0.59 0 0 0 0
    0.9 630 0 1.21 2440 58.56 98 14.3 1.51 0 0 0 0
    1.81 645 0 2.11 2800 79.94 100 12.8 2.41 0 0 0 0
    2.72 675 0 3.02 3280 125.36 100 8.3 3.32 0 0 0 0
    3.62 700 0 3.92 3800 146.61 100 6 4.22 0 0 0 0
    4.53 765 0 4.83 4320 164.25 100 10.5 5.13 0 0 0 0
    5.43 810 0 5.73 4840 167.58 100 10.5 6.03 0 0 0 0
    6.34 850 0 6.64 5320 176.75 100 11.3 6.94 0 0 0 0
    7.24 870 0 7.54 5680 180.22 100 14.3 7.85 3 3 0 3
    8.16 885 0 8.45 6080 187.44 100 12.8 8.76 3 3 0 3
    9.05 900 0 9.35 6400 187.14 100 16.5 9.66 2.3 2.3 0 2.3
    9.97 910 0 10.27 6680 189.44 100 15 10.56 2.3 2.3 0 5.3



    Saturday 4 August 2012 18:34:08:47470 VCDS Version: Release 11.11.3 (x64) Data version: 20120401
    8N0 906 018 J 1.8L R4/5VT G 0003
    Group A: '002 Group B: '031 Group C: '115
    RPM Load Inj. On Time Mass Flow Lambda Factor Lambda Factor Bin. Bits Bin. Bits RPM Load Absolute Pres. Absolute Pres.
    TIME TIME TIME
    Marker STAMP /min % ms g/s STAMP STAMP /min % mbar mbar
    0.62 2480 117.3 10.54 57.44 0.01 0.984 0.992 0.31 2360 110.5 2150 1360
    1.52 2840 139.1 12.92 78.42 0.92 1.023 0.992 1.21 2680 130.8 2360 1650
    2.42 3280 191.7 16.66 126.5 1.82 0.977 0.992 2.12 3120 172.9 2500 2070
    3.33 3800 191.7 19.72 155.44 2.73 1.016 0.992 3.03 3640 191.7 2550 2540
    4.24 4400 191.7 19.38 169.47 3.63 0.938 0.938 3.93 4200 191.7 2550 2500
    5.14 4960 187.2 18.02 176.92 4.54 0.914 0.899 4.84 4720 191.7 2510 2350
    6.05 5400 178.2 17.34 182.42 5.44 0.883 0.891 5.74 5240 182.7 2430 2240
    6.95 5840 168.4 16.32 188.67 6.35 0.883 0.891 6.66 5680 169.9 2360 2040
    7.87 6240 160.9 15.64 184.72 7.25 0.899 0.891 7.55 6120 160.9 2320 1950
    8.76 6600 148.1 14.28 187.47 8.16 0.86 0.891 8.46 6480 153.4 2270 1940
    9.67 6920 141.4 13.94 186.53 9.06 0.899 0.891 9.36 6840 143.6 2220 1920




    If i need to log any other Blocks then let me know.



    Cheers

    Jit
    Jit

    Audi S3

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  3. #2
    RIP S3dave

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    189g/s for your level of boost looks low - 236bhp worth... lots of boost request and leaner than I would set fueling

    if you did 4/5/6th gear logs you would be in egt protection no doubt

    boost looks slow to rise for a k04 (tired perhaps)
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  4. #3
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    Hi Bill,

    Thanks for your reply, What do you reckon is wrong the MAP? or is there a way to testing if the turbo is tired? she has done 124k miles.


    Cheers

    Jit
    Jit

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  5. #4
    RIP S3dave

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    maps asks for boost turbo's slow to get there.. thats not the map, its the turbo
    its ~400-500rpm slower than healthy turbos from your log.... and airflow is also low..
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  6. #5
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    How can i get the airflow up? would a new tip be worth while?

    Cheers
    Jit

    Audi S3

  7. #6
    superkarl's Avatar
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    the low figure questions your maf, but its not mega low. a TIP would no doubt improve airflow, but whats to say the maf on the car wont still hinder your airflow.

  8. #7
    RIP S3dave

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    Quote Originally Posted by jitvv View Post
    How can i get the airflow up? would a new tip be worth while?

    Cheers
    larger tips will increase airflow, but wont make an under reading maf read "correctly"... so... possible new maf is on the cards.
    it wont have any influence on the slow spool and it not achieving requested boost however - tired turbo and or leaks as I said previously
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  9. #8
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    Bill,

    Is there a way i can test the turbo? I had a smoke test done no leaks.... would a weak actuator cause this sort of issue?

    Thanks for your help advise so far
    Jit

    Audi S3

  10. #9
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    Just want to add if i have to replace the turbo, that's fine but want to be sure its knackered.

    Cheers
    Jit

    Audi S3

  11. #10
    RIP S3dave

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    Quote Originally Posted by jitvv View Post
    Bill,

    Is there a way i can test the turbo? I had a smoke test done no leaks.... would a weak actuator cause this sort of issue?

    Thanks for your help advise so far
    quite possibly a weak actuator could be part of this... they seem borderline when healthy in terms of keeping the wg closed under high boost/load - there's a lot of back pressure in the exhaust manifold/turbo when pushing them. think in terms of between 2:1 and 2.5:1 pressure ratio of inlet plenum pressure to exhaust manifold pressure! (>double the pressure in the exhaust mani as in the plenum!) - wg has to keep closed against this pressure.... 5psi spring as std.. surface area of wg for its 24mm exposed diameter, do the maths..

    you could run n75 off to see what the actual pressure is.. it should not be less than 5psi, and often seems to rise with creep on healthy units I have seen, and on weak tired ones, the pressure falls away less than 5psi.

    some added preload might recover some, but you dont have much adjustment in terms of rod length vs travel and its effective psi gain.. 2-3psi tops is all I think I have seen from winding up the actuator in these circumstances.
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  12. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by badger5 View Post
    quite possibly a weak actuator could be part of this... they seem borderline when healthy in terms of keeping the wg closed under high boost/load - there's a lot of back pressure in the exhaust manifold/turbo when pushing them. think in terms of between 2:1 and 2.5:1 pressure ratio of inlet plenum pressure to exhaust manifold pressure! (>double the pressure in the exhaust mani as in the plenum!) - wg has to keep closed against this pressure.... 5psi spring as std.. surface area of wg for its 24mm exposed diameter, do the maths..

    you could run n75 off to see what the actual pressure is.. it should not be less than 5psi, and often seems to rise with creep on healthy units I have seen, and on weak tired ones, the pressure falls away less than 5psi.

    some added preload might recover some, but you dont have much adjustment in terms of rod length vs travel and its effective psi gain.. 2-3psi tops is all I think I have seen from winding up the actuator in these circumstances.
    Thanks for the quick reply.

    So if i unplug the N75 and then log it? and see what boost i am getting right? does this test the turbo or the actuator sorry if i am sounding thick!!

    Cheers
    Jit

    Audi S3

  13. #12
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    both kind of..
    log it and post up what you see
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  14. #13
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    So just want to double check unplug N75 and do 3rd gear logs ?

    Cheers
    Jit

    Audi S3

  15. #14
    RIP S3dave

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    Yes
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  16. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by badger5 View Post
    Yes
    Just been out.

    Cheers

    Group C: '115
    RPM Load Absolute Pres. Absolute Pres.
    TIME
    STAMP /min % mbar mbar
    0.01 2240 91 2400 1210
    1 2560 99.2 2470 1290
    1.91 2840 100.8 2470 1300
    2.82 3160 104.5 2470 1310
    3.72 3480 100.8 2500 1320
    4.62 3840 101.5 2510 1320
    5.53 4200 100.8 2500 1330
    6.43 4560 102.3 2480 1330
    7.34 4960 103 2460 1320
    8.25 5400 103.8 2480 1340
    9.15 5840 106 2520 1350
    10.06 6240 104.5 2510 1370
    10.96 6600 105.3 2420 1350
    Jit

    Audi S3

  17. #16
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    thats about 4 psi, unless you logged on top of ben nevis.
    maybe, wind a few turns on it to get it to 5. i dont think its likely to give you your lost airflow though. i dont know, perhaps thats the norm for cars thi old to have lost a psi or 2, wg and spring is v old.

  18. #17
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    How do you work the psi off that... I don't know anything on loging the car lol

  19. #18
    RIP S3dave

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    peak logged boost 370mb from your log (remove the leading digit) * 14.5 = psi = 5.365psi
    310mb @ 3krpm = 4.495psi

    so its about 5psi.. not massivley under, but some healhy k04's will creep from 5psi to 8-12psi with revs, yours does'nt

    your afr's are a little on the lean side for me.. which is map, so you cant easily influence these yourself.

    you could try adding a couple of turns on the actuator to add a little more preload and see how that goes for you.

    (wind outer nut t'wards actuator to add preload)
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  20. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by badger5 View Post
    peak logged boost 370mb from your log (remove the leading digit) * 14.5 = psi = 5.365psi
    310mb @ 3krpm = 4.495psi

    so its about 5psi.. not massivley under, but some healhy k04's will creep from 5psi to 8-12psi with revs, yours does'nt

    your afr's are a little on the lean side for me.. which is map, so you cant easily influence these yourself.

    you could try adding a couple of turns on the actuator to add a little more preload and see how that goes for you.

    (wind outer nut t'wards actuator to add preload)
    Thanks for this, does this suggest a weak actuator? and a okish Turbo?

    I'm guessing its best to get to the actuator from under the car?

    Cheers
    Jit

    Audi S3

  21. #20
    RIP S3dave

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    you can reach over the top with strut brace removed - cold engine!
    be carefull if the buts are tight.. you can snap the rod end off easily if its uber seized on from heat/rust
    WD40 is your friend
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