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Thread: check out these oil coolers....

  1. #1
    superkarl's Avatar
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    check out these oil coolers....

    as im sure we all know, and if we dont, you should, these engines get HOT, and keeping oil in its optimum temp is fairly important, esp if you drive hard and track your car. we uprate everything else on our cars performance wise, ringing everything we can out of them, but rarely, v rarely do we touch the cooling system, which lets be honest, is prob one of the most important aspects of an engine.

    so here are some coolers, that i and a few others plan to fit above our FMIC, behind the badge grill (13row should fit)

    APS Competition Oil Cooler 13 Row 235mm Wide 1/2 BSP Race Rally Track Motorcycle | eBay

    BEK051 MGB 62-74 & MGC OIL COOLER - 13 ROW (ARA221) | eBay

    UNIVERSAL MOTORSPORT MOCAL 13ROW ENGINE OIL COOLER 1/2BSP OC5133-8 MLR.QX on eBay!

    now im sure you're all eager to say dont trust the others, especially the MG (ahhhhh), but they are identical in there construction to the mocal cooler, a very reputable brand.
    whats everyones thoughts?
    only the mocal states its rated to over 10bar pressure, which is definately comforting. but on the other hand, an oil cooler could be a very cheap and easy, effective mod for some of us.

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    great idea karl
    350bhp & 316ftlb BBT new k16 7+7 blade hybrid turbo, Welly cooler, jetex filter, relentless ported v3 manifold 3" downpipe & de-cat, liquid gauge, r32 rear arb, AGU ported and polished Head, 550cc injectors, kw v2 Coilovers, s3dave tie bars & heat sheild, milltek cat back, I.E forged rods, brembos, inline fuel pump, v3 badger 5 tip, devils own WMI kit, AGU pistons, rear grooved discs & brembo pads, ds2500 pads & EBC ultimax disc, stack boost gauge

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    superkarl's Avatar
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    i think the cheap one is the winner here, worth a try for £30 posted.
    i think westy might link all the other stuff to make a cheap kit folks. he is a beast of a pikey afterall

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    interesting stuff karl, as they say it really is never ending!
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    am i right in saying 1/2 bsp is about 21mm?
    and, are hose fittings that are for push on hose ok for the kinds of pressure that it will be under, say, 4 bar?
    Last edited by superkarl; 26th July 2012 at 15:04.

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    outside diameter yes it is about 21mm. ref the pressure etc i'm afraid i don't know! i'm sure someone will!
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    Ok from what I've worked out, this lot will be the best bet fittings wise:

    Hose - I think 1 metre will cover it if you fit the cooler on top of the FMIC:
    MOCAL 1/2" ID OIL COOLER / REMOTE FILTER OIL HOSE PIPE | eBay

    Fixings at the cooler end. - 90 degree only if you fit above the FMIC. You might need a different angled fitting if fitting elsewhere:
    OIL COOLER REMOTE FILTER 1/2" HOSE PIPE FITTINGS UNIONS | eBay

    Sandwich plate with built in 80 degree thermostat to avoid over cooling the oil in the winter:
    MOCAL OIL COOLER SANDWICH PLATE & THERMOSTAT POLO GOLF GTI CORRADO G60 3/4UNF | eBay

    Fittings for sandwich plate end:
    OIL COOLER REMOTE FILTER 1/2" HOSE PIPE FITTINGS UNIONS | eBay

    All that leaves is one of the cores above.
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    superkarl's Avatar
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    bingo!

    for an oil cooler kit you will need:
    1 x oil cooler core, like the ones in the OP

    1 x 3/4" THERMO sandwich plate:
    MOCAL OIL COOLER SANDWICH PLATE & THERMOSTAT POLO GOLF GTI CORRADO G60 3/4UNF | eBay

    2 x straight 1/2bsp - 1/2" hose fittings
    2 x 90 degree 1/2bsp - 1/2" hose fittings
    1 x adequate length of high pressure oil hose 1/2" OR 12mm to be snug.
    available all in one here:
    HYDRAULIC HOSE ASSY - 1/2 2 WIRE 1.5 MTR LG 1/2 BSP FEMALE + 1/2 BSP SWEPT 90 | eBay

    and that should complete your kit. with the exception of any mounting brackets for the cooler obv

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    superkarl's Avatar
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    ha fred, posted at similar times, so whos is cheapest.
    gets calc out.....

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    so there is £3.71 difference between the kits me and westy posted.

    but, seems the pipe kit i posted has swivel fittings, needed for pointing the 90's into the engine bay, fixed fittings once tight could point anywhere. but also the pipe kit i posted doesnt look push fit onto the fittings, looks very secure.

    so i think for the £3.71 difference its worth getting.
    total cost of an MG oil cooler kit (chepest one) would be:
    £119.53 posted

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    Are you hitting really high temps? I've not tracked mine but have given it pretty sustained "stick" and the highest I can get is 102c. And that's at nigh on 40c (summer) ambients. The stock heat exchanger will balance temps between water/oil somewhat. This will also mean the oil gets up to temp quicker which is far more important for a daily/road driven car. Many people fit poorly/un thermostat'ed sandwich plates and then remove the exchanger. Asking for trouble. The mocal thermostat I had on a previous car didn't fully seal at <80c so warm up was slower. Not ideal.

    If you're consistently seeing over 130-135c (where synthetic starts to breaks down) then worry. Otherwise, if it ain't broke don't fix it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam_ View Post
    Are you hitting really high temps? I've not tracked mine but have given it pretty sustained "stick" and the highest I can get is 102c. And that's at nigh on 40c (summer) ambients. The stock heat exchanger will balance temps between water/oil somewhat. This will also mean the oil gets up to temp quicker which is far more important for a daily/road driven car. Many people fit poorly/un thermostat'ed sandwich plates and then remove the exchanger. Asking for trouble. The mocal thermostat I had on a previous car didn't fully seal at <80c so warm up was slower. Not ideal.

    If you're consistently seeing over 130-135c (where synthetic starts to breaks down) then worry. Otherwise, if it ain't broke don't fix it.
    do you have an oil temp gauge fitted??? if not, how do you know?

    my water temp can hit 105 EASY, and seeing as the oil is water cooled as standard, i imagine, and going by peoples accounts of logging the temps on track and road, that oil temps get pretty high on these cars.
    nothing wrong with improviing the cooling system, as long as it gets up to the desired running temp in the first place its a good idea.

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    I've got a liquid gauge. It was pretty much the main reason I got it and oil temp is the screen I use 99% of the time. I "auto pilot" to it every morning haha. Used to have a stack dash in my old car, that was awesome.

    I'm just saying it might be worth checking you actually need it first. By all means fit it but it might be money spent better elsewhere. If you do fit one, try and keep the exchanger and make sure the sandwich plate has a decent thermostat I'd say.
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    mine hit 94 earlier on my liquid guage, but as a norm its bounces between 72 and 80 odd
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    and where is the temp taken from on a liquid?

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    My understanding is that the liquid gauge takes the temp reading from the sump which isn't a particularly accurate reading. Tam has a sandwich plate between his oil OEM cooler and oil filter that he takes the temp reading from. He said he was getting 120 degrees yesterday.

    I've asked him nicely if he can go out to iChat and get some more temps at different speeds for me. He has a stage2 car by the way.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Westy View Post
    My understanding is that the liquid gauge takes the temp reading from the sump which isn't a particularly accurate reading. Tam has a sandwich plate between his oil OEM cooler and oil filter that he takes the temp reading from. He said he was getting 120 degrees yesterday.

    I've asked him nicely if he can go out to iChat and get some more temps at different speeds for me. He has a stage2 car by the way.
    this is where i thought the liquid reading was from, which isnt so accurate for oil actually in the engine doing its job.

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    i may be wrong but i think tuffty has a guage aswell as a liquid, if im right it would be good to see the difference between them, especially as the weathe is extremly hot atm
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    Quote Originally Posted by Westy View Post
    My understanding is that the liquid gauge takes the temp reading from the sump which isn't a particularly accurate reading. Tam has a sandwich plate between his oil OEM cooler and oil filter that he takes the temp reading from. He said he was getting 120 degrees yesterday.

    I've asked him nicely if he can go out to iChat and get some more temps at different speeds for me. He has a stage2 car by the way.
    Really? It's where every car I've owned has had the sensor and it's also where most of the oil spends it's time? The hot oil from the turbo (hottest part in the circuit?) comes directly into there too so I'd say it's not a bad spot at all. Most people seem to recommend the sump.
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    Quote Originally Posted by knoxie View Post
    the weathe is extremly hot atm
    25c? must be a heat wave haha
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    was up to 35 one day last week, and yeah by your heats it may seem low but here its up there with the best haha
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    The sandwich plate with stat should keep the oil at optimum temp as it only opens at 82 degrees. Once the oil has been cooled by the cooler, the stat will close and the OEM cooler will take over.

    Anyway I've bought one so I'll do some before and after temp tests with VCDS from the sump
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    Quote Originally Posted by Westy View Post
    The sandwich plate with stat should keep the oil at optimum temp as it only opens at 82 degrees. Once the oil has been cooled by the cooler, the stat will close and the OEM cooler will take over.

    Anyway I've bought one so I'll do some before and after temp tests with VCDS from the sump
    i am looking forward to this, i like stuff like this!! you guys are prepared to put your money and time into this and report back for our benifit aswell!!! top lads!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by knoxie View Post
    i am looking forward to this, i like stuff like this!! you guys are prepared to put your money and time into this and report back for our benifit aswell!!! top lads!!!
    Won't be the first time! My whole project is to prove the the K04 turbo can produce 300bhp with bolt on mods
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  26. #25
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    You've all posted links to the same seller I told you to go to about a year ago :P Matt Lewis Racing in Dorking.

    Also, I wouldn't use that hose Westy linked to, take a look into the Mocal Press fit system with the blue hose, it has special barbs, and a self tightening hose that needs no clamping at all. Rated and approved by Mocal for motorsport use, and the pipe and fitting system has a safe pressure rating of 250psi.

    I still think it'd pay you guys to pick up the phone though, I got my whole kit from him, with a 16 row genuine mocal cooler, mocal stat sandwich, mocal press fit fittings, and enough hose to do the oil cooler AND power steering cooler, AND this steering cooler core:

    PAS POWER STEERING FLUID COOLER SIERRA ESCORT COSWORTH | eBay

    All for £140, so your budget kit is actually a fair bit MORE expensive than mine with all genuine mocal.....

    Stop trying to piece together ebay tat and get on the blower

    And Sam: oil cooler is DEFINITELY needed man, big time. there are chaps in st2 LCR's that have seen 140-150 degree oil temps on the Ring! I was having coolant temp issues, reaching 112-114 degrees on track, but since fitting the oil cooler, it's not gone above about 104 ever even in summer.
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    Yeah if you're getting 140+ then you need one for sure. The oil would be starting to break down at that point.

    Hopefully Mocal have improved their thermostats or I had a duff one then as mine didn't fully seal when closed. I remember Stacey saying his didn't either.
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    its not supposed to fully seal when closed

    Otherwise the oil cooler pipe work sits empty until the first time the oil hits the thermostat temperature, then a litre+ of oil vanishes out of your sump and you get 0 oil pressure while the cooler and lines fill up!

    They're designed to allow a small amount of oil to flow round the cooler all the time, and only open up full flow when the temperature requires it.

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    So it'll slow oil warming down a bit then, bummer. It did make a bit of a difference to warm up on my 205. Bill was saying they were meant to close in Stacey's thread I'm sure.

    I was at the snow over the weekend (3c outside + wind chill) and the oil took an age to warm up (along with coolant) compared to normal. I know most people couldn't give a toss but I just don't like booting a cold engine...
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    Well, better late then never.... almost a year later and I've fitted the damn thing:













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    very helpfull thread cheers!

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    Here are the dimensions for that very cooler:




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    Quote Originally Posted by Prawn View Post
    You've all posted links to the same seller I told you to go to about a year ago :P Matt Lewis Racing in Dorking.

    Also, I wouldn't use that hose Westy linked to, take a look into the Mocal Press fit system with the blue hose, it has special barbs, and a self tightening hose that needs no clamping at all. Rated and approved by Mocal for motorsport use, and the pipe and fitting system has a safe pressure rating of 250psi.

    I still think it'd pay you guys to pick up the phone though, I got my whole kit from him, with a 16 row genuine mocal cooler, mocal stat sandwich, mocal press fit fittings, and enough hose to do the oil cooler AND power steering cooler, AND this steering cooler core:

    PAS POWER STEERING FLUID COOLER SIERRA ESCORT COSWORTH | eBay

    All for £140, so your budget kit is actually a fair bit MORE expensive than mine with all genuine mocal.....

    Stop trying to piece together ebay tat and get on the blower

    And Sam: oil cooler is DEFINITELY needed man, big time. there are chaps in st2 LCR's that have seen 140-150 degree oil temps on the Ring! I was having coolant temp issues, reaching 112-114 degrees on track, but since fitting the oil cooler, it's not gone above about 104 ever even in summer.
    Hi Prawn, looking to fit oil cooler to my s3 any chance you could post a list of everything you got from matt lewis racing, as I would like to get it on order. cheers simon
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    Thought I would add my oil cooler fitting guide to this thread, as no one seems to of fitted one above an AH fab V2 cooler. May help a few people out. ms/q742/minkie10/025_zpsea831c7c.jpg[/IMG]
    First I stood in position with fittings on and had to cut front panel both sides to get it back far enough to clear bumper.
    Then I drilled 2 small dimples into top of intercooler plate, but not right through so as not to damage the core. This lines up with the holes in bottom of oil cooler to aid fixing, which I did with chemical metal. I fixed the top with a setrab bracket bolted through the front panel.
    I then refitted the bonnet catch and front panel support by cutting a section out of the oil cooler mounting bracket then trimming down to sit on top of cooler.
    Then drill 2 holes in the recesses to take the hoses through. You will need to put the ends of the hoses in some boiling water to be able to push them on to the fittings which will need a bit of oil on too. I also relocated the temp sensor onto the front panel.
    Then just connect to sandwich plate, fit filter and test for leaks.
    Will post up parts I used later.
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    Nice work. Any pics with the bumper back on?

    Also did you have any leaks? I found the sandwich plate fittings needed to be pretty bloody tight.
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    Will add some more pics tomorrow along with list of materials. I haven't fitted sandwich plate yet just cable tied hoses out the way for now, will hopefully get around to it this week.
    2002 S3 8L, BAM, 85,000m, B5 map, B5 tip, K04, small port head, jetex filter & heat shield, Xs mani v3, 3" d/pipe, 200 cell cat, miltek non res cat back system, Sachs DMF & 4 paddle clutch, PCV delete & catch can, N249 delete, AH fab v2 intercooler, silicone boost hoses, Liquid gauge, LCR Brembo's, DS2500 pads, Braided brake lines, Motul RBF600 brake fluid, LED bulb kit, aero wipers, manifold heat shield, Aquamist WMI, Mocal oil cooler, Forge short shifter, Dave's rear tie arms. 295bhp/274lbft.

  37. #36
    superkarl's Avatar
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    thanks for posting that in here, this thread is now epic and covers all people need to know regarding oil cooler fitting on both wellycooler and AHfabs setups.
    Looks very little different to the wellycooler setup in terms of room, i thought ahfabs were quite a bit taller

  38. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by superkarl View Post
    thanks for posting that in here, this thread is now epic and covers all people need to know regarding oil cooler fitting on both wellycooler and AHfabs setups.
    Looks very little different to the wellycooler setup in terms of room, i thought ahfabs were quite a bit taller
    Any taller than that and it hits the bumper (bottom of the grille opening)... I might have been able to squeeze one more row in but there were other things to consider...

    <tuffty/>
    Silver 2001 AMK S3. Silver alcantara interior... now with added powarrrrrrrr, torques. VAGCOM + KII-USB. >> My build thread...

  39. #38
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    Time for the rest of the pics.

    2002 S3 8L, BAM, 85,000m, B5 map, B5 tip, K04, small port head, jetex filter & heat shield, Xs mani v3, 3" d/pipe, 200 cell cat, miltek non res cat back system, Sachs DMF & 4 paddle clutch, PCV delete & catch can, N249 delete, AH fab v2 intercooler, silicone boost hoses, Liquid gauge, LCR Brembo's, DS2500 pads, Braided brake lines, Motul RBF600 brake fluid, LED bulb kit, aero wipers, manifold heat shield, Aquamist WMI, Mocal oil cooler, Forge short shifter, Dave's rear tie arms. 295bhp/274lbft.

  40. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon_S3 View Post
    Time for the rest of the pics.

    Did you have a link for the parts?

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    s3dave and Neru like this.
    2002 S3 8L, BAM, 85,000m, B5 map, B5 tip, K04, small port head, jetex filter & heat shield, Xs mani v3, 3" d/pipe, 200 cell cat, miltek non res cat back system, Sachs DMF & 4 paddle clutch, PCV delete & catch can, N249 delete, AH fab v2 intercooler, silicone boost hoses, Liquid gauge, LCR Brembo's, DS2500 pads, Braided brake lines, Motul RBF600 brake fluid, LED bulb kit, aero wipers, manifold heat shield, Aquamist WMI, Mocal oil cooler, Forge short shifter, Dave's rear tie arms. 295bhp/274lbft.

 

 

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