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  1. #1
    Jpd89's Avatar
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    Undecided and need some knowledge/experience!

    I currently own a Clio 172 cup which is on ITB's(amongst other mods), circa 200bhp and 1000kg. However my friend is selling his S3 and I'm pretty tempted! However, not sure if its going to be the right move or not.

    The car in question is a V-reg 210ps 8l S3 on 130k miles, however at 80k the cam belt went and was subsequently rebuilt. It's had 1 Haldex service, has fsh, stage one remap but standard other than that. Also has had recent clutch change, along with flywheel and fairly recent cam belt so no worries there.

    Im in two minds because i do the occasional track day and don't want to feel disappointed when i chuck the s3 round brands, however just sitting in the drivers seat (couldn't drive it as flat battery) its such a nicer place to be day to day. Im into modding so i know the s3 wouldn't stay standard for long and part of the appeal is the quattro system and turbocharger, the s3 has more potential from a bit of tuning whereas my clio is nearing its realistic power limit.


    Is the s3 going to be hard to make noticeably faster than my current car? Would it be more dangerous to mod this car as well because some of the components have covered 130k?

    Also is there much weight to be lost from stripping interior etc and having fixed buckets? It seems a shame to lose the nice interior but it must be pretty heavy...


    Thanks for the help guys, very new to the audi scene so excuse my ignorance!

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  3. #2
    superkarl's Avatar
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    sounds like you have a great car already. id like to see pics if you have any, im a BIG fan of renault sports.

    shouldnt you be running circa 220hp with ITB's, 230 with cams and mapped right?
    i imagine it is fairly rapid with its power to weight ratio being so good.

    the s3 will and can be quicker, the extra torque and power throughout the rev range will make it feel quicker certainly, as i imagine your clio is screaming to keep it in the power range.

    if you do trackdays though, this is where you might be put off. Sadly the s3 isnt much of a very 'HARD' hot hatch if you know what i mean, its a comfortable and refined beast, and in standard form they are pretty floaty and boaty round the twisties.
    Credit where credit is due though, they are SUPERB when setup and modded properly, my car handles pretty dam well (coilovers, arb's, poly bushes, wider track, fully adustable geometry, topmounts etc etc). But this is the thing, it will cost alot of money to have an s3 out handle a well sorted clio sport, id be confident to say and well setup/modded clio would still out do my well set up s3 in the twisties, id love to give it a go though!

    so like most things, theres pros and cons.
    more power
    luxury
    image
    comfort
    tuneability

    vs

    boaty as standard
    ££££ to make them great
    expensive

    whilst the s3 can see 260/270 hp very easily and relatively cheaply, it is a tad over 1400kgs. but the torque that the clio lacks is what you will love no doubt.
    an S3 can be a better car than the clio in some if not most respects, however like most things, it costs alot, and the change will have you sacrificing what the clio is great for.

    hope i've helped. im certainly not biased when it comes to clio vs S3, i love them both.

    westy is a good person to ask having owned a 182 from new a few years back. im sure he'l be along to comment.

  4. #3
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    As a driver of a standard S3 with no plans to modify I'd say go for the S3 but then I don't do track days and have no intention of starting. I like the fact I drive a comfortable(ish) car that can put the hammer down(ish) when I want it to. The power is nice and it's easy to drive quickly(ish) in good conditions on the road and for what I want it's a million times better than a Clio would be. But your requirements are way different to mine so I would say without a doubt stick with what you have. Having not owned a RenaultSport I can't say for sure but I'd also hazard a guess that the associated costs are lower on the Clio than an S3!
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  5. #4
    Jpd89's Avatar
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    Thanks superkarl, to be honest 200-210bhp on standard cams is pretty much what you should expect, especially when you factor in that renaults have a tendency to be 5-15bhp under book figures as standard. Some tuners do inflate their figures but Matt@TDF where i got all my work done is very honest, and also the best at what he does! Very nice guy too and would recommend him to anyone.

    It does need revving the ******** out of to get going but its definitely not a slow car. I do love it, but have a feeling i could love a s3 with the same level of tuning more?

    I will track it, but would be happy getting the power up and sorting out the floaty ride with some stiff coilovers etc before hand so thats not a massive hold back.

    Out of interest, how far would £2000 go in the audi modification world? Decent coilovers for the clio's are £1000+ and power mods are equally expensive so just seeing how they compare really.

  6. #5
    Jpd89's Avatar
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    Just to say, ideally i'd like the target of 300bhp+ but this is a long term project.

    Also are there any common aesthetic mods which are cheap and effective, so to speak, as I'm unaware of what people change on their standard s3's! All of my car knowledge is renault specific to a bit lost now that I'm contemplating this switch!

  7. #6
    superkarl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jpd89 View Post
    Thanks superkarl, to be honest 200-210bhp on standard cams is pretty much what you should expect, especially when you factor in that renaults have a tendency to be 5-15bhp under book figures as standard. Some tuners do inflate their figures but Matt@TDF where i got all my work done is very honest, and also the best at what he does! Very nice guy too and would recommend him to anyone.

    It does need revving the ******** out of to get going but its definitely not a slow car. I do love it, but have a feeling i could love a s3 with the same level of tuning more?

    I will track it, but would be happy getting the power up and sorting out the floaty ride with some stiff coilovers etc before hand so thats not a massive hold back.

    Out of interest, how far would £2000 go in the audi modification world? Decent coilovers for the clio's are £1000+ and power mods are equally expensive so just seeing how they compare really.
    thats good to know about the power figures and what to expect and what not.


    as for how much £2000 would get you, it depends on what you define as decent coilovers. your decent clio ones might be fully adjustable (height, compression, rebound) in which case s3 coilovers are easily over £1000.

    mine were £500, set damping, 30% uprated spring rates and damping, and they are very good, as most people will tell you.

    i think though, £2000 could see you with a fairly decent setup.

    map £circa300
    Turbo intake pipe and filter £200
    DV £100
    coilovers £500
    topmounts £60
    rear arb £110
    poly bushes £50-250 depending how many you do
    adustable camber arms £250
    geometry set up £100

    i think that would give you a quick enough car compared to your clio, and would handle well if setup right, subject to decent tyres obviously, sadly that doesnt take into account the brakes, which is another expensive mod! and to be honest the stock s3 brakes are poor!
    wether it will be as good as your clio in the twisties who knows, the spec of your clio might be crazy. but the above would be easily as good as a standard clio sport, if not better.

    the problem with the £2000 budget is it doesnt take into account any issues the S3 might have/develop. they are fairly old cars, and are becoming less and less reliable. they aren't bad however!

    where do you live?
    maybe we should do a swap for a week lol.
    i've considered a clio sport too many times!
    Last edited by superkarl; 8th June 2012 at 19:53.

  8. #7
    superkarl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jpd89 View Post
    Just to say, ideally i'd like the target of 300bhp+ but this is a long term project.

    Also are there any common aesthetic mods which are cheap and effective, so to speak, as I'm unaware of what people change on their standard s3's! All of my car knowledge is renault specific to a bit lost now that I'm contemplating this switch!
    300 takes quite a bit of money, and is only just acheivable on the standard turbo, and its reliabilty at this level is abit unknown, but you CAN get there.

    as for aesthetic, too many to list. theres plenty. mostly small and subtle, us audi chaps dont really do loud and lairy looking things.

  9. #8
    Jpd89's Avatar
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    Subtle mods (aesthetically) are definitely the way I'd go so that's good. Also like the look of a FMIC. I'd probably colour code any black trim and change the wheels to some lightweight rims, probably Oz superleggeras.

    Thanks a lot for the info mate, it's been very useful!

    I know the S3 I'm tempted by had a new turbo recently which has a fixed actuator, however I am unable to pretend that I know what that means as google has thrown up nothing of value.

    Those prices do seem quite reasonable actually, it's getting more and more tempting! Other than the brakes.... What is the usual route? New bigger callipers? Or can decent discs and pads sort some of the problem? My standard clio brakes with pf97 pads are amazing!

  10. #9
    superkarl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jpd89 View Post
    Subtle mods (aesthetically) are definitely the way I'd go so that's good. Also like the look of a FMIC. I'd probably colour code any black trim and change the wheels to some lightweight rims, probably Oz superleggeras.

    Thanks a lot for the info mate, it's been very useful!

    I know the S3 I'm tempted by had a new turbo recently which has a fixed actuator, however I am unable to pretend that I know what that means as google has thrown up nothing of value.

    Those prices do seem quite reasonable actually, it's getting more and more tempting! Other than the brakes.... What is the usual route? New bigger callipers? Or can decent discs and pads sort some of the problem? My standard clio brakes with pf97 pads are amazing!
    replaced turbo some point in its life is a good thing for sure.
    just hope the map on it at the moment is a good one, lots of bad (lean) maps out there that kill turbos/manifolds/heads for fun.

    apparently, not from experience here, the standard s3 brakes with uprated discs and ferrodo race pads are brilliant, but with such a heavy car any 1 piston sliding caliper will have its limits and start to fade on track.
    the best way to go is either a set from a seat leon cupra (4 pot brembos that are a straight swap, circa £400-500 for a complete set), or a set of porsche calipers off a 911 or boxster, a little more expensive but they are monolblock and slightly bigger depending on the car they are from.

    brakes are the last piece of my car puzzle, im always looking for a bargain.

    seems like im swaying you toward the S3 here, lol, so dont blame me if you make the change and regret it.
    as a track weapon, the clio sport is very hard to beat for the money. But we all get power hungry, which is where the s3 fits the bill.

  11. #10
    Jpd89's Avatar
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    Damn! I recently had a spare set of brembos which I sold on a couple months back!

    Yeah I am leaning towards the S3, I only track my car a few times a year at the moment so everyday use is probably the more important factor to consider. You've hit the nail on the head with chasing power! My mate (who is selling the s3) took me out in his new evo 7 fq300 and now I need something with more torque and power!!

    I don't think you'd be disappointed with a clio if you got one, a few simple mods and they are track heroes! But they are a mid powered NA engine at the end of the day so not going to be all that in a straight line! Becoming bargains mind you though!

  12. #11
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    I think for an all rounder you need a mk1 scooby! No brainer........ Money , power, handling , weight all achievable with £5k = approx 1000 kg, 330bhp and 4x4! Ps I've had 24 cars and think the Clio sport was in my bottom 3 , so you can say aim slightly bias. Lol

    Cheers, sean

  13. #12
    jojo's Avatar
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    Keep the Clio in my opinion.


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  14. #13
    Lemon S3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by s33nyboy12 View Post
    Ps I've had 24 cars
    Are you like 90 or just get bored really easily?
    1999 APY S3 Imola Yellow

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  15. #14
    Paradox1's Avatar
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    I think for what you want to use the car for daily/track I'd go for a a3 with fwd, lighter and probably easier on the track.get your mat to sort out the s3 and take it for a spin to see what you think.if you don't.like it go for a spin in a a3,cupra,golf. The extra power from the turbo is great and with the right handling mods would make a great track ready car. Just look at prawns thread!
    Word!!!

    My A3/Martys Golf would smash that, and this guys £7000 GT9743 supercharged love machine.

 

 

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