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Thread: Badger5 - With or without their induction kit?

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    Badger5 - With or without their induction kit?

    Hi guys,

    Firstly, hi! I've put a deposit down on an S3 8L which I found for sale on here and am collecting it a week on Saturday - I can't wait!

    I have a few little mods in mind, the first being a new TIP. I've seen a lot of people on here say that the OEM air filter on the S3 is actually quite good. I've seen the Badger5 TIP on eBay for sale with and without an induction kit.

    Is there any benefit in paying the extra £85 for the TIP with the induction kit or will the standard filter be fine?

    Other planned mods are DP and remap.

    Advice is much appreciated,

    Cheers, Jamie

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    superkarl's Avatar
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    more gains with the jetex filter. simple as.
    depends if you're willing to part with the cash and dont mind the added noise.
    otherwise, an aftermarket panel filter is fine, and gains can still be had

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    Id go for the whole kit. Looks smart, sounds great.

    Dan

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    Well I think that if you go for the B5 tip, without Jetex...at somepoint during ownership of the s3 your want a Jetex. Theyre very good IMO. So might as well get it all as a kit and be done with it.

    Jetex is one of my favourite mods, love the noise.
    MODS - Custom Code phase 1, 007p DV, various powerflex bushes, EBC grooved and drilled - red stuff pads, N249 deletion. Badger5 V2 80mm TIP. Scorpion backbox + custom centre section, LCR front splitter, Jetex Fr-08001, R32 rear ARB, Forged IE rifle drilled rods, 20mm rear & 15mm front spacers.

    TO DO - Coilovers, adjustable tie arms, DP/mani/decat, FMIC and new remap


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    I did back to back dyno logs with the B5 TIP into the standard airbox then into the jetex and it gave a huge gain of around 10bhp, which is bloody good just from a filter.
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    didn`t essthree do lots of tests with filters and only saw 1-2hp gain over a std oem filter ?????
    red to red black to black blue to bits

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    Quote Originally Posted by fingermouse View Post
    didn`t essthree do lots of tests with filters and only saw 1-2hp gain over a std oem filter ?????
    essthree did his testing back in the old days when dinosaurs roamed the earth. The B5 TIP has changed the game since then
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    Remember testing a filter on a dyno isn't really "real life" though. Unless you drive around with no bonnet...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam_ View Post
    Remember testing a filter on a dyno isn't really "real life" though. Unless you drive around with no bonnet...
    Doesn't matter, showed an increase.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fingermouse View Post
    didn`t essthree do lots of tests with filters and only saw 1-2hp gain over a std oem filter ?????
    progress has been made since noah was a lad
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    Quote Originally Posted by fingermouse View Post
    didn`t essthree do lots of tests with filters and only saw 1-2hp gain over a std oem filter ?????
    wouldn't have had the B5 TIP, so i would guess that the OEM tip would have been the limiting factor?
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    Do it, definitely worth it.

    I did logs before and after fitting my B5 TIP and Jetex filter.

    OEM Setup with Revo Stage 1 - 204 g/s (255 bhp)
    B5 TIP Jetex Filter Revo Stage 1 - 219 g/s (273 bhp)

    15 g/s roughly equates to 18 bhp.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan-Jnr View Post
    Do it, definitely worth it.

    I did logs before and after fitting my B5 TIP and Jetex filter.

    OEM Setup with Revo Stage 1 - 204 g/s (255 bhp)
    B5 TIP Jetex Filter Revo Stage 1 - 219 g/s (273 bhp)

    15 g/s roughly equates to 18 bhp.
    Wow, they're pretty decent figures for a Stage 1! I'm officially sold! I'll go with the filter too. Seems pretty unanimous. Couple that with a downpipe, sports cat and Stage 2 and I should have a nice big smile on my face

    Thanks chaps, much appreciated!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam_ View Post
    Remember testing a filter on a dyno isn't really "real life" though. Unless you drive around with no bonnet...
    80mm Large Bore Intake Pipe:
    Dyno is a more scientific test than logging alone of course.
    Dyno results are factual and supported by datalogs of airflows during the tests, results correlate............... and repeated independantly on 100's of customer cars, and many other dyno's

    There is no other as proven or tested TIP on the planet - lol

    Scrutinised beyond belief by many......... Thankfully it does what it says on the tin (ronseal, not)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danman1 View Post
    Id go for the whole kit. Looks smart, sounds great.

    Dan
    Agreed...went for the whole thing on mine, fitted it on monday, sounds schweet...
    S3, 2001 Facelift, 210bhp AMK,


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    Quote Originally Posted by Westy View Post
    Doesn't matter, showed an increase.
    Come on dude. Common sense must prevail here at some point. I know it goes against the grain to question it but surely you can understand that testing an air filter on a dyno with the bonnet open and at 3c ambient (on the chart I saw) is hardly realistic of regular driving conditions? IAT's are obviously going to way lower on a dyno in a 3c room with the bonnet open and a whacking great fan than on the road after a long run. I know every time I open my bonnet after a drive, it's pretty toasty under there. Don't get me wrong, I have a Jetex on mine but I still wonder if it actually made much difference. It'd be good to see someone do some more logging with airbox vs cone on the road.

    If you're going to do it, at least fit a heatshield...

    Quote Originally Posted by badger5 View Post
    80mm Large Bore Intake Pipe:
    Dyno is a more scientific test than logging alone of course.
    Dyno results are factual and supported by datalogs of airflows during the tests, results correlate............... and repeated independantly on 100's of customer cars, and many other dyno's

    There is no other as proven or tested TIP on the planet - lol

    Scrutinised beyond belief by many......... Thankfully it does what it says on the tin (ronseal, not)
    I wasn't doubting the TIP
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    Sam the airglow created in the dyno isn't anywhere near that on the road, so any gains seen on a dyno is easily seen on the road.
    It doesnt get much more hardcore than testing on a dyno with heat and such.
    Plus people have matched airflow gains while on the road to gains measured on the dyno.

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    yea, I'd actually argue that it's the other way round Sam. I'm fairly sure I see higher IAT's generally on the dyno than on the road, and also lower air flow figures. Both my daily and my track car log lower airflow figures on the dyno than they do on the road, which could well suggest that out on the road, they're making more power too!
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    You can stand in front of the fans people use for cooling cars on the dyno, stick your head out the window of your car at 90mph.......... Little bit more airflow! Lol.
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    It's an old test (06) but this is more like what I was getting at:
    Waks Wide Web

    I was just after some real world tests The figures may be optimistic but at least they are relative.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam_ View Post
    It's an old test (06) but this is more like what I was getting at:
    Waks Wide Web

    I was just after some real world tests The figures may be optimistic but at least they are relative.
    Relative to what though mate?.... testing this on a dyno would have produced relative data too... if you do before and afters on a dyno then the data is relative... not sure why you would think any different... have the bonnet open during a dyno run is largely irrelevant on a forced induction engine... the fan speeds are not fast enough to make any difference whatsoever on a power run and as Prawn has mentioned IAT's etc will be worse case anyway on a dyno as the airspeeds are lower overall...

    You do a dyno run with a std filter and it produces a baseline hp figure then rerun with a jetex for example and you see 15hp more... thats relative regardless...

    Real world is 'always' going to be different to dyno... the loads on the engine and environmental differences will always be a factor... a dyno is a more controlled and arguably repeatable environment for doing this kinda testing...

    In my experience IAT's generally run higher on the dyno as not everyone has the luxury of an air-conditioned dyno cell... this makes the gains even more relevant in my book...

    <tuffty/>
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    I was referring to the figures in that test; rather than looking at x vs y, instead look at the delta.

    I was merely saying that the results on the dyno are going to be different to real on road conditions with the bonnet shut. I seem to have ruffled a few feathers though...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam_ View Post
    I was referring to the figures in that test; rather than looking at x vs y, instead look at the delta.

    I was merely saying that the results on the dyno are going to be different to real on road conditions with the bonnet shut. I seem to have ruffled a few feathers though...
    Nah... all good bud :D

    Yeah, real world will always be different... only way to test realistically like that is to road log but not many people have the time or inclination to do so least of all tuners with a dyno... they have no reason to and the results are just as relevant... the delta would be mudded a little by conditions on the road, accumulative heat build up and so forth...

    While I see your argument I just think in the grand scheme of things I think its far to subjective a method to test stuff... most people have kittens the minute they lose 5gs of airflow from the previous days reading on Liquid gauge because the sun poked its head out for 5 mins (this is the UK weather I am referring too of course lol)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam_ View Post
    Come on dude. Common sense must prevail here at some point. I know it goes against the grain to question it but surely you can understand that testing an air filter on a dyno with the bonnet open and at 3c ambient (on the chart I saw) is hardly realistic of regular driving conditions? IAT's are obviously going to way lower on a dyno in a 3c room with the bonnet open and a whacking great fan than on the road after a long run. I know every time I open my bonnet after a drive, it's pretty toasty under there. Don't get me wrong, I have a Jetex on mine but I still wonder if it actually made much difference. It'd be good to see someone do some more logging with airbox vs cone on the road.

    If you're going to do it, at least fit a heatshield...
    You are in Australia. 3c is very common here!

    And as for the gains on the dyno vs the road, if the car gets logged at 250bhp (for example) gets dyno'd at 260bhp due to favourable conditions, gets a jetex and gains 5bhp and dyno shows 265bhp, if on the road it gets logged again at 255bhp, its still an increase so I don't get what the point of the argument is?

    (exaggerated examples, but you get my point)


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    Quote Originally Posted by <tuffty/> View Post
    most people have kittens the minute they lose 5gs of airflow from the previous days reading on Liquid gauge
    Hahaha I know that feeling very well!

    I wish I'd done some more logging for before/after fitting the heatshield and fmic but the problem is it's turning into winter here and the temps different every day. It was 22 today, brisk.

    I guess regardless of whether it makes power or not, to me the cone sounds better and for me that's part of the experience
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    Badger 5 induction = some good stuff!! You'll know what I mean when I do my write up later!!
    Quote Originally Posted by <tuffty/> View Post
    its either mapped or broken...

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    Quote Originally Posted by BENJAMIN View Post
    You can stand in front of the fans people use for cooling cars on the dyno, stick your head out the window of your car at 90mph.......... Little bit more airflow! Lol.
    The guy makes a damn good point...
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    If only your engine was externally mounted!
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    Great thread! Nearly made my mind up on which filter to go for.
    Im looking to upgrade as the prev owner looks like he paid a tenna for the one thats on it now.
    Brand unknown. (Sponge cone thing)
    Iv found the badger5 on ebay but it comes with its own intake pipe. I already have a forge intake pipe fitted. Will i gain anything by buying the completed b5 kit and does anywhere sell the filter+heat shield separately?...
    I was nearly swayed towards a jetex for the sound and proven bhp increase but am i right in thinking id have to create my own heatshield?
    I no longer have the stock airbox.
    Also, there is a pipe that runs down behind the wheel arch that looks like cold air feed for the standard airbox. Has anyone ever used this to their advantage?

  31. #30
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    An example of potential gains... this TIP his been fitted to hundreds of cars and dyno'd to death


    <tuffty/>
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    You dont work for badger5 do u tuffty

    I already have a forge intake pipe mate.
    Looks very similar to the one b5 supply with the kit on ebay. Am i wasting my time looking for the filter and heatshield on they're own.
    cheers
    paul

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    Quote Originally Posted by molineux84 View Post
    You dont work for badger5 do u tuffty

    I already have a forge intake pipe mate.
    Looks very similar to the one b5 supply with the kit on ebay. Am i wasting my time looking for the filter and heatshield on they're own.
    cheers
    paul
    The Forge TIP is nothing like the B5 one mate... the Forge is a silicon version of OEM... the B5 is a performance upgrade... there is no comparison...

    <tuffty/>
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    Great stuff mate thanks!
    Wanted to make sure. Its a lot of money for an airfilter. If i get on the computor today. I'll post a pic of the filter the prev owner fitted. I may be down on power

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    Quote Originally Posted by molineux84 View Post
    You dont work for badger5 do u tuffty

    I already have a forge intake pipe mate.
    Looks very similar to the one b5 supply with the kit on ebay. Am i wasting my time looking for the filter and heatshield on they're own.
    cheers
    paul
    Forge intake it reduced on most of the pipe. the B5 is 3 inch all the way throguh

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    Sounds good mate. I think im going to feel the difference. Especially in the warm. I notice a big difference in power from hot to cold days. More than my a3T did. That didnt mind hot days. Not sure what brand, but it had a red cone filter in the carbon fibre tube

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    carbonio or bmc I think.

    But seriously though, its the best intake options for a k04 turbo

  38. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by molineux84 View Post
    You dont work for badger5 do u tuffty

    I already have a forge intake pipe mate.
    Looks very similar to the one b5 supply with the kit on ebay. Am i wasting my time looking for the filter and heatshield on they're own.
    cheers
    paul
    it looks nothing like the B5 one.. Its 80mm Bore to the turbo billet adaptor.
    the gains in the plot posted above, and Danes previously on V1 3" TIP I made were compared to a conventional silicon TIP...

    100's of these sold in past 18 months........ Very positive results almost without exception.
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  39. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by <tuffty/> View Post
    An example of potential gains... this TIP his been fitted to hundreds of cars and dyno'd to death


    <tuffty/>
    This may just be me being pedantic... But this before and after dyno seems a little dodgy to me.. I'm not doubting the gains of the B5 TIP and Jetex, because I have one myself and I know that they make a difference... But on the "before" dyno, the ambient air temperature is 30.5 degrees C... But the "after" ambient air temperature is 18.0 degrees C... Now, I'm no scientist, but I do know air is more rich in oxygen at lower temperatures, and with a 12.5 degree difference between the 2 dyno readings, surely that alone will be a contributing factor to the outcome?

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  40. #39
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    I tried discussing that earlier heh. One of the original runs was at 3c or something.

    Anyway, I think the general feeling is that the whole setup is good (for sound alone!) and will definitely gain you some power/torque. How much will vary from car to car of course.
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  41. #40
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    Yes and no... IAT's were pretty similar from what I remember (not the first time this question has been asked)... I can't remember if this particular car had a FMIC or not but based on personal experience this is a realistic gain... plenty of others here have had similar...

    Your choice obviously but if you are in the market for a silicon TIP/induction kit its a no brainer IMO...

    <tuffty/>
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    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 23rd October 2011, 18:31
  4. Badger5 and Welly
    By S3 TAM in forum A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 10th February 2011, 19:03

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