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Thread: Going Hybrid

  1. #1
    dannyh's Avatar
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    Going Hybrid

    I posted this on SCN but i know you guys on here like your hybrid's from when i had my A3,

    I currently have a Seat Leon Cupra R and well my turbo is a little broke


    Untitled by GuerrillaPhotography, on Flickr


    ,So I am looking at getting it refurbished. but for £200 more I can get a Hybrid Stage 1
    Link:
    http://www.hybridturbos.com/hybrid-t...hybrid-turbos/

    I’m not too sure on hybrid, I have read a lot of mixed reviews, will there be any issue running this turbo, I will be getting an APR map from awesome once it is installed so having it remapped in isnt a problem. I am worried about spikes ect.

    Is it just the stage 3-4 hybrids that can cause problems with stage 1-2 being a safe option?

    Advice and discussion please, has anyone run this turbo before, what gains would you expect?

    Thanks

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  3. #2
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    That stage 1 turbo isn't really a hybrid in the true sense of the word... its just a slightly better K04...

    Hybrids typically fall into the RS6 comp wheel or the 2283 wheel from the 8P S3's... the 2283 will give you the potential for around 330hp with the right supporting hardware... the RS6 versions aren't quite as capable... no hybrid will make 360hp as they advertise for the stage 4 in my experience... you will also need to change the injectors for a proper hybrid as the std ones are pretty much flat out at 280hp let alone the 300+hp the hybrids are capable of...

    There are plenty of threads here mate on hybrids etc... spikes etc depends on the mapping and there have been surge issues with early 2283 hybrids which can be controlled through decent mapping (not generic stage 1/2 though)... you may want to consider rods too...

    <tuffty/>
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  4. #3
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    There's plenty of info on here already and it has been covered.

    From the above
    Stage 1 basically a K04 with a larger compressor and a stock turbine lighten
    stage 2 and 3 look identical yet one makes 20bhp more than the other.. Go figure
    stage 4 2283 billet wheel and Rs6 turbine. Quoted up to 360bhp

    Now if you have a read through the threads it becomes very apparent that it's not all about the hybrid. What I mean is that if you say run a stock K04 with a good manifold, DP, FMIC you can get the same figures that someone else runs with a hybrid and stock everything else. For instance Welly on here ran the Hybrid stage 4 at 300bhp, it was good figures, yet a high flow manifold, Dp and large fmic saw 330bhp with the same turbo! Now people with the high flow manifolds, dp fmic are getting 300Bhp from stock turbos! admittedly you are ringing the neck of a stock k04 to get 300 but it shows there is more than 1 way to achieve you goal. Prawn on here is running a hybrid with all the bells and whistles and making 300bhp and very low boost, why? because that's what he wants and it's suits his needs.

    My point is you need to ask yourself what do I actually want to achieve and how big is my wallet.. Start by aiming for a BHP figure you want.. say 300bhp, then decide on the best route for you to get that...Bigger turbo doesn't always mean better.. However, I would say that running a hybrid at 300bhp, which is well with in it's range is far safe and easier on the engine and turbo than ringing the neck of a stock K04 to get the same power...

  5. #4
    dannyh's Avatar
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    Not sure power wise, i will say i want 280bhp, I know i will need rods at sompoint and there is emergancy cash should they go,
    I was thinking seeing as i am getting the turbo refurbished i may as well get it upgraded because it saves on labour and i may kick myself in the future for not upgrading it,
    so stage 1 and 2 would be safer then and 4 would be a bit spikey?
    It will be a custom map that i end up getting.

  6. #5
    RIP S3dave

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    spec of the hybrid is key
    stock injectors will be a limit depending on state of tune..
    other supporting mods will aid the power or hinder it
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  7. #6
    dannyh's Avatar
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    Well i have decided to buy a full reconditioned unit and replace it this weekend, its costing me £490 but at least its warrented for 12months.
    if anyone wants my old turbo I will pop some pictures up this weekend , it still works and is still on my car now which i am using to commute, it just has a bent compressor wheel.
    Last edited by dannyh; 20th April 2012 at 14:53.

  8. #7
    dannyh's Avatar
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    This is the one i am getting, has anyone else had one
    OE Quality SEAT Turbo Charger New | Euro Car Parts UK’s No.1 Car Parts Retailer

  9. #8
    Lemon S3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dannyh View Post
    This is the one i am getting, has anyone else had one
    OE Quality SEAT Turbo Charger New | Euro Car Parts UK’s No.1 Car Parts Retailer
    Thats a standard turbo right? Thats ridiculous money, you can buy a stage 4 hybrid for less.
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  10. #9
    StaceyS3's Avatar
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    Lemons got a good point

    Have you tried contacting any of the turbo refurb co's?

    CR's iirc do a guarenteed 24 hour turnaround/exchange on most turbos not sure if it includes hybrids but worth giving them a bell as iirc price was quite a bit less than that
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  11. #10
    dannyh's Avatar
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    Sorry im not paying that price i am paying £500 inc VAT
    i cant realld do without the car, so this we i can have the turbo then just return mine once swapped around, i did call up 5-6 refurb co's they all quoted 350-500 + VAT so about the same price and only the work they have done will be guarentteed not the housing

  12. #11
    dannyh's Avatar
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    I'm thinking i may go hybrid, as i have no other mods apart from a TIP and ITG cone i want it mapped safe.
    Will i be able to get a map producing around 260-270 bhp and low torque until i upgrade my rods,

  13. #12
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    yeah im sure you can but that will be underutilising the turbo. You may want to get a full exhuast aswell. im sure that it wont be a normal stage 1-2 map as the turbo is different.

  14. #13
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    Well spoken to Awesome, I explained my situation and said that I might get a hybrid as my turbo is being rebuilt and if they could adjust the software so that it is around 260/270 and not maxed out and killing my rods, they said that can can’t offer this it would just be a generic stage 1 or 2 software so it’s just a lottery as to what power it produces. It’s kind of put me off a hybrid now as I know there is no freedom with mapping.

  15. #14
    <tuffty/>'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dannyh View Post
    Well spoken to Awesome, I explained my situation and said that I might get a hybrid as my turbo is being rebuilt and if they could adjust the software so that it is around 260/270 and not maxed out and killing my rods, they said that can can’t offer this it would just be a generic stage 1 or 2 software so it’s just a lottery as to what power it produces. It’s kind of put me off a hybrid now as I know there is no freedom with mapping.
    Bill at Badger 5 has done loads of these mate... have a word with him either on SCN or here...

    <tuffty/>
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  16. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by dannyh View Post
    Well spoken to Awesome, I explained my situation and said that I might get a hybrid as my turbo is being rebuilt and if they could adjust the software so that it is around 260/270 and not maxed out and killing my rods, they said that can can’t offer this it would just be a generic stage 1 or 2 software so it’s just a lottery as to what power it produces. It’s kind of put me off a hybrid now as I know there is no freedom with mapping.
    Not that "awesome" really then! Don't be put off as it can be done just choose the right person/company

  17. #16
    dannyh's Avatar
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    Trouble is i have already paid for my APR map, so it has to be an APR map, i never planned on my turbo getting broke, seems pretty rubbish of Awesom/APR if they cant map hybrid turbos

  18. #17
    <tuffty/>'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dannyh View Post
    Trouble is i have already paid for my APR map, so it has to be an APR map, i never planned on my turbo getting broke, seems pretty rubbish of Awesom/APR if they cant map hybrid turbos
    It would be technically classified as a new map regardless mate tbh... too many changes when going to a hybrid for normal stage 2 maps... have seen a hybrid running on a stage 2 map before with 550cc injectors and its not ideal tbh...

    <tuffty/>
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  19. #18
    dannyh's Avatar
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    SO for a hybrid, you need a custom map, not one of the big brand names then, looks like i may stick with a standard turbo then or change slightly to a stage 1 hybrid, that should be ok to run on a stage 1 map

  20. #19
    <tuffty/>'s Avatar
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    Problem with hybrids is the std injectors... they tend to max out at 280ish hp and at stage 1 boost (1.2bar) the hybrid will flow more air than the std K04 so more air requires more fuel... just fiting a hybrid with std injectors and stage 1 boost would technically produce more power for the same boost levels but would risk runnig out of injector duty and therefore run lean top end...

    You are in essence fitting a larger turbo... if you don't want the expense/hassle then go for a std turbo like Westy... his car produced better torque being a std refurb unit than a tired std unit but power was more or less the same...

    <tuffty/>
    Silver 2001 AMK S3. Silver alcantara interior... now with added powarrrrrrrr, torques. VAGCOM + KII-USB. >> My build thread...

  21. #20
    dannyh's Avatar
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    Thanks Tufty, I think I will save some of my pennies and just have my turbo recon'ed. It will be cheaper,
    I’m not after torque though, ideally I want 260-270bhp but maybe 250-260 torque, this is because torque kills rods and I don’t fancy replacing the rods just yet, I am aware they probably will go at some point but I don’t want that time to be just yet lol.

    Also a side note I am going to be using this forum more often, I have a Seat Leon Cupra R 225 now, once I got it I decided to join SCN but they don’t seem to be as friendly and offer as much advice/help as you guys, most of their replies are quite abrupt and if anyone has used the site you will know that the politics on there aren’t like other sites, so from now on I will be using this site more often

  22. #21
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    Thing is unless you have tge funds or intention of revuilding your engine then theres not much point going hybrid, otherwise youl be driving a time bomb and will kick yourself when something happens.
    Cant elieve you expected awesome to custom map a hybrid lol, they cant even do 4wa

    good luck with the car danny

  23. #22
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    Lol I see awesome more as a supplier than a work shop. By the sounds of it just go for a rebuild bud. That way you don't need a map to run it safely AMD you don't need to solace out on rods, injectors etc
    Word!!!

    My A3/Martys Golf would smash that, and this guys £7000 GT9743 supercharged love machine.

  24. #23
    dannyh's Avatar
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    Yea think thats the way ill go, Turbo Dynamis will call me tomorrow and tell me what i need, i guess a refurb and new comp wheel so ill ask them what the price difference is to a better comp wheel, if its £100 or more ill leave it but if its £50 i might upgrade

  25. #24
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    Next comp wheel up from k03s is the 2275 from the s3 k04 turbo. Should be the same price but it won't fit into the k03s comp housing, then you need a new backplate as well so its not bolt in upgrade.

  26. #25
    dannyh's Avatar
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    I have a KO$,
    my Sig pic is a little confusig as i havent chaged it yet but i have this now so it has a KO4 lol

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    hi guys now your talking about spec i got cr turbo's to send me an email with what spec mine is and i got the following is it any good or need more info thanks
    Modified compressor cover
    K06 Billet Compressor wheel
    Motorsport 360 degree thrust bearing
    K04 Large trim turbine wheel
    Modified turbine housing
    Up-rated actuator

    Boost limit 1.6 bar
    350bhp & 316ftlb BBT new k16 7+7 blade hybrid turbo, Welly cooler, jetex filter, relentless ported v3 manifold 3" downpipe & de-cat, liquid gauge, r32 rear arb, AGU ported and polished Head, 550cc injectors, kw v2 Coilovers, s3dave tie bars & heat sheild, milltek cat back, I.E forged rods, brembos, inline fuel pump, v3 badger 5 tip, devils own WMI kit, AGU pistons, rear grooved discs & brembo pads, ds2500 pads & EBC ultimax disc, stack boost gauge

  28. #27
    beachbuggy's Avatar
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    Large trim k04 turbine is the questionable bit. Is that a rs6 turbine or a stock k04 turbine. If its the rs6 then you have thè best spec

  29. #28
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    im shore its the rs6 turbine wheel dan ill ring em tomoz and find out for definate
    350bhp & 316ftlb BBT new k16 7+7 blade hybrid turbo, Welly cooler, jetex filter, relentless ported v3 manifold 3" downpipe & de-cat, liquid gauge, r32 rear arb, AGU ported and polished Head, 550cc injectors, kw v2 Coilovers, s3dave tie bars & heat sheild, milltek cat back, I.E forged rods, brembos, inline fuel pump, v3 badger 5 tip, devils own WMI kit, AGU pistons, rear grooved discs & brembo pads, ds2500 pads & EBC ultimax disc, stack boost gauge

  30. #29
    sambryant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dannyh View Post
    Also a side note I am going to be using this forum more often, I have a Seat Leon Cupra R 225 now, once I got it I decided to join SCN but they don’t seem to be as friendly and offer as much advice/help as you guys, most of their replies are quite abrupt and if anyone has used the site you will know that the politics on there aren’t like other sites, so from now on I will be using this site more often
    this made me lol scn is a great site, asking questions like can i run a hybrid with my current mods just seemed a bit of a noobie question. the problem is, scn is a very busy forum and the same questions pop up all the time due to people being lazy and not using the search bar. from what i can read, people are telling you that you need rods, they assume you want maximum power so they are helping you keep the engine in one piece, not really heard of anyone wanting a hybrid but want to run low power, some would say whats the point. i would say your comment was a little unfair tbh as you have been given correct advise, just remember us oldies have to read the same questions over and over, hence sarcastic responses.
    link to the question
    Going Hybrid - Page 2 - SEAT Cupra.net - SEAT Forum

    i love asn and scn and would not bad mouth either.

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  31. #30
    dannyh's Avatar
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    Ok guys well, my turbo has been received by Turbo Dynamis and the compressor housing is cracked badly apparently, i diddnt notice it but they said it is and that they cant repair it, they have a sale on and i can buy a new unit for £700 inc VAT......

    So does anyone have a KO4 i can buy?
    I diddnt really want to buy a used KO4 as the same thing could happen to that one but i guess i have no other option.

  32. #31
    dannyh's Avatar
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    Just bought one of Ebay came of a TT that had done 65K and works fine.

    not sure if i should reclaim my turbo or leave it,
    Does anyone want it??

  33. #32
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    was it the compressor housing or turbine housing? i did pm you though

  34. #33
    Paradox1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dannyh View Post
    Just bought one of Ebay came of a TT that had done 65K and works fine.

    not sure if i should reclaim my turbo or leave it,
    Does anyone want it??
    ID advise you to get it serviced before you bolt it onto your car. just for piece of mind.
    check your PM

  35. #34
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    My car is in with Bill at the moment to have:
    • AH v2 FMIC fitted
    • Forged and drilled rods
    • XS manifold
    • XS DP and cat
    • Custom map

    Then as he was taking it apart, saw that the stock K04 was completely shagged which wasn't surprising as I was running a very lean MTM map (stock fueling) at 26psi. Needless to say the turbo and manifold were pretty cracked. I'm sure Bill will post the dyno plots.

    So have just ordered a new CR turbo (@ £888 delivered) to the spec below, and Bill has ordered the new injectors to suit.
    • Genuine Borg Warner hot side
    • Clipped turbine
    • Unported wastegate (Bill is porting)
    • Uprated actuator - 12 psi

    I decided if I need a new turbo, I may as well make the most of a crap situation and go all out.

    When I looked into it, it seemed the same turbo from Turbo Dynamics was £300 more, unless I got something horribly wrong. I'm going with Bill's recommendation so probably can't go too far wrong.

    Anyway, pretty f*cking excited about getting it back now, even if I'll be paying off my credit card bill for the next 50 years.
    Currently running a MTM stage 1 map, ECS brakes, Forge DV, Bager 5 TIP, 18" RS4s, Bilsteins, H&R springs, Tie bars, Milltek catback... but not for long...

  36. #35
    <tuffty/>'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piester View Post
    ....even if I'll be paying off my credit card bill for the next 50 years.
    Know that feeling well mate.... :D

    <tuffty/>
    Silver 2001 AMK S3. Silver alcantara interior... now with added powarrrrrrrr, torques. VAGCOM + KII-USB. >> My build thread...

  37. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by <tuffty/> View Post
    Know that feeling well mate.... :D

    <tuffty/>
    Same....
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "Marriage is like a coffin and each kid is another nail."
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