what to do next? what more power

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jam333

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im currently got my car in bits putting new rifle drilled ie rods in xs mani fold 3 inch down pipe and 200 cell sports cat with full miltex exhaust back. jst ordered b5 tip and induction kit from bager5. i will be sorting out fmic next but can you think of anything else i will need to get sum serious power outa my 2003 reg s3. is there any point of coilpack injectors spark plugs ect would like some help please
 
define serious power?

I see no mention of budget or what you power expectations are. Serious power to me is 400 bhp and above, and you need a huge turbo and supporting mods and around 7k in cash
 
well maybe not that much power but over 300 would be nice. trying to leave turbo for now and just see how much i can get out of the standard turbo that i can run safely. then maybe do turbo later in the year. any ideas?
 
300 is just not quite possible on the std turbo, but you have the right ideas, let the engine breath, make it strong and it'll be as good as it can be for mapping. Depnednig on your current engine code as that will define what size injectors you currently have

High 200s are the expected output for a k04, the car will still be perfectly drivable then too. Any more than that, you will need much larger injectors, a hybrid turbo of some kind
 
hmmm ok so new turbo is defo what i need. what about just putting on some bigger injectors and keeping stanard turbo will that giv more
 
jam333 said:
hmmm ok so new turbo is defo what i need. what about just putting on some bigger injectors and keeping stanard turbo will that giv more
Click to expand...

Turbo and manifold is whats holding you back from getting near 300

Your mod you have now, Exhaust manifold, Hybrid turbo with ported waste gate, 440/550cc injectors, WMI, Big intercooler and you could see 300+
 
Most likely just under on std K04, I am using Westy as reference.LP head and all of the above.
A hybrid will see around 330 - 340 assuming you upgrades the rods to take account of the extra strain.. otherwise it will be short lived.

To the OP nailing large injectors in won't make more power on its own, The engine management will pull the extra fuel out anyway unless it's mapped to take account of that and the extra air afforded by the larger flow from the other components
 
yeah i have a xs mani fold is that what you mean by exhast mani fold. fmic is next on list as well and iv got ie rifled drilled rods in
 
audi upgrades
As above.

Agreed, Westy is good blueprint.

300bhp never seen on standard k04 but may be possible...just.

Also, If trying to hit these figures, don't forget to budget for a clutch as your standard one wont last long with the increased torque being achieved.
 
I'll have answers soon lads. I'm building it all up in 3 weeks time then I'll get it on the dyno.

A standard K04 turbo might just make 300bhp but not an old one with lots of miles on it as it will be worn and tired. I'm only trying to get the maximum from my K04 because my standard turbo had covered 120k miles and had sadly cracked in half like most of them do over time. I now have a brand new K04 which has already proved 330lbft torque and almost 280bhp on the rollers.

Exhaust mani and large port head to allow for breathing, water methanol injection and a big intercooler to aid cooling, and rods and a clutch to take the extra strain and hopefully it'll make for 1 fast car.
 
Another note to add is, you really need some deep pockets, as it all adds up very quickly as you probably have started to find out....
just an heads up ,as if going hybrid, associated hardware and it soon escalates not including the final custom map @ £500+
 
Agreed...I've spent around circa 5k in last two years, just don't tell the wife!
 
I think the problem here is that people dont plan a build properly with a sensible target in mind.

Had you decided from the outset that you wanted 350hp, and properly planned the build, then you wouldnt have even bothered buying all the stuff you've already bought (barring the rods).

GT28 or GT30, with a decent manifold, and appropriate downpipe etc, wont actually cost THAT much more than going hybrid, if your starting from a standard engine with a blank sheet of paper, and will make far more power.

Sure, if you've already spent all the money adding the bolt ons to an existing motor, and are now at the point of wanting to swap out the turbo for some more power, then the hybrids have their place, but the cost VS gain, compared with a GT30 or similar is a bit crap.
 
You know guys, i think we need to re-write the rule book on 300bhp ko4's.....

It's happened. Twice now to my knowledge in the last week, and both times on used turbos, on a reputable dyno. 304bhp first time, and 306bhp second time I believe.....

The B5 TIP and XS manifold really is the most amazing combo out there, and it seems to be unlocking a whole new level of power for ko4 users.....
 
First one was an AGU golf with BENJAMIN's old turbo and bits from his S3, large port head being an AGU.

Second one was a BAM small port engine in an LCR.
 
Prawn said:
You know guys, i think we need to re-write the rule book on 300bhp ko4's.....

It's happened. Twice now to my knowledge in the last week, and both times on used turbos, on a reputable dyno. 304bhp first time, and 306bhp second time I believe.....

The B5 TIP and XS manifold really is the most amazing combo out there, and it seems to be unlocking a whole new level of power for ko4 users.....
Click to expand...

Prawn said:
First one was an AGU golf with BENJAMIN's old turbo and bits from his S3, large port head being an AGU.

Second one was a BAM small port engine in an LCR.
Click to expand...

So imagine a BAM with large port head, WMI, and a brand new blower :eyebrows:

I dont care how long the turbo lasts I just want to break 300bhp after so many people said it "cant" be done.
 
Its just a stupid arbitrary goal.

Its like saying "i'm going to rev my standard engine to 9528rpm just so i can prove it can be done"

So you then go out and manage to rev your engine to 9528rpm, what then? If you keep doing it, you'll blow it to bits. If you dont keep doing it, then achieving the figure in the first place is irrelevant and pointless.
 
It's all spin.

Aragorn has it spot on.

I want 250 from my TQS - i know its gonna cost a couple of grand to get there running on a daily basis, but that's the limit. How many A3's do you see pushing the 250 mark....not many, cos everyone goes S3. It runs the KO3s, blocks only done 68k, with a little love and attention, im hoping it to be a silent sleeper come the summer.

Started with the block, and work up and around it....sensible power dictates a sensible build. Basics done ATM, with Air Filter, Exhaust, Manifold, De-Cat, Plugs, Oil, Upgraded Coils, and Re-Map. "Stage Halfords" as it's know at the garage.

300 bhp is a BIG ask for any car that runs low 200's, and if 300 was your benchmark, then the FMIC, and exhaust would have been on the "to-do" list....not to put a downer on your build, cos i get the verbal stick cos of my poor mans S3 but look at Prawns Car - it's a 300 ish BHP track car....can you really run 300bhp daily?
 
aragorn said:
Its just a stupid arbitrary goal.

Its like saying "i'm going to rev my standard engine to 9528rpm just so i can prove it can be done"

So you then go out and manage to rev your engine to 9528rpm, what then? If you keep doing it, you'll blow it to bits. If you dont keep doing it, then achieving the figure in the first place is irrelevant and pointless.
Click to expand...

The point is, up until recently nobody had bothered to see what the K04 can do, especially on this site. I have ended up in a situation where I had a new K04 fitted and have decided to mod the rest of the engine. Why do I want to ditch the K04 NOW, spend even more money NOW to get a hybrid or a big turbo?

This is the situation i'm in and I want to see what a fast K04 is like. I understand that i am asking performance from it that it was never designed for but when it does inevitably melt, crack, ingest itself, I'm in a position to spend the money for the next stage and will already have a strong engine in place.

Anyway i'm sure even you're slightly interested to see what I can put out with all the additional mods? I bet this turbo lasts longer at full blast then my last one did on a lean map ;) so I dont think it's "stupid".
 
Alais DJA said:
It's all spin.

Aragorn has it spot on.

I want 250 from my TQS - i know its gonna cost a couple of grand to get there running on a daily basis, but that's the limit. How many A3's do you see pushing the 250 mark....not many, cos everyone goes S3. It runs the KO3s, blocks only done 68k, with a little love and attention, im hoping it to be a silent sleeper come the summer.

Started with the block, and work up and around it....sensible power dictates a sensible build. Basics done ATM, with Air Filter, Exhaust, Manifold, De-Cat, Plugs, Oil, Upgraded Coils, and Re-Map. "Stage Halfords" as it's know at the garage.

300 bhp is a BIG ask for any car that runs low 200's, and if 300 was your benchmark, then the FMIC, and exhaust would have been on the "to-do" list....not to put a downer on your build, cos i get the verbal stick cos of my poor mans S3 but look at Prawns Car - it's a 300 ish BHP track car....can you really run 300bhp daily?
Click to expand...

You do realise you will need a hybrid to get 250hp from a K03... getting 250hp from a K03 is the no different to Westy trying to get 300hp from a K04... ragged edge running... you would need WMI, FMIC, rods etc to get a K03s turbo'd engine close to 250hp...

<tuffty/>
 
It's a case of each to his own or me.

All points taken and agreed with aside from the running of 300+ bhp every day. :)
 
aragorn said:
Its a 28lb compressor, so irrespective of anything else, trying to get 300hp from it, then running that level for any sustained length of time, will see the turbo fail in short order due to overspeed, IMO.
Click to expand...
bottom line is no one actually KNOWS this yet.
i hear your point, and its valid. but in the world of tuning engines you cant assume too quickly what can and cant be done and what will or will not happen.
with the high flow mani, wmi, large port, all this extra flow and cooling will make westys setup more reliable than most.
whack an oil cooler on there as well and maybe his REALISTIC 300hp Ko4 car will last a long long time. no one actually knows yet
 
aragorn said:
Its a 28lb compressor, so irrespective of anything else, trying to get 300hp from it, then running that level for any sustained length of time, will see the turbo fail in short order due to overspeed, IMO.

I just dont see the point of pushing something that far outside its comfort zone.

http://www.full-race.com/catalog_images/Borgwarner/BorgWarner K04-2275 Specs.JPG
Click to expand...

You say that without the benefit of any facts of the logs and boost run from the vehicles.........
Compressor flow, is not the only factor involved in an engine making power... Ign is a significant factor here..
When the overall flow ability is raised, but larger intake and free flowing exhaust manifold, the efficiency has been improved... No longer is it being forced to push air thru, with the unwanted side effect of egt's, ait's etc getting hotter, that it can accept more timing for less boost, and make more power as a consequence.

The issue with the ex mani, is although the relentless flows well (and always has done since we did wellys tests way back when) the manufacturing quality has always been poor. Fitment has improved, but weld quality where it counts remains as it was. Unless they fix this, its not going to end well long term.

The same argument but on the flip side, is the turbo re manufacturers will quote a power potential based only on the compressors flow ability, with no account of the rest of the system to which its attached.. eg: a 2283 is a 360bhp capable turbo.. in a k04 hybrid.. Erm no.. it aint.
 
<tuffty/> said:
You do realise you will need a hybrid to get 250hp from a K03... getting 250hp from a K03 is the no different to Westy trying to get 300hp from a K04... ragged edge running... you would need WMI, FMIC, rods etc to get a K03s turbo'd engine close to 250hp...

<tuffty/>
Click to expand...

I'm working around the turbo though Tuffty, beachbuggy is sorting me out with a KO3 hybrid. So it's purley speculative figures for the TQS ATM. I'm not sticking with the KO3s much past June, so i'll get everything ready for the Hybrid.
 
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