A3 1.8T stage 1 tuned, do I go to stage 2?

[Pops848]

I have an 8L 1.8T (2001)
It's a AUM engine, K03s turbo, has a full milltek exhaust (manifold back) with race cat, forge 007p dv and K&N air filter. It's dyno'd at 199.1 BHP. I'm led to believe that these engines with turbo are capable of quite a few more horses.
What I was wondering is should I get another remap for the extra BHP or is it worth fitting FMIC etc and remap it to stage 2?
i'm aware for stage 2 I need some extra water works like the FMIC and the T piece etc, but what exactly do I need to get in order to squeeze some more horsepower from it. I was looking for a forge FMIC but is it worth spending the big bucks or just go for something a bit cheaper?

Or am I better off leaving everything alone and keeping it at the 199BHP?

 

[superkarl]

fmic isnt too expensive to do, around £200, so in my opinion its worth getting that done before another map, you should be seeing more power than that really.

for stage 2 you will need:
downpipe and decat/cat
007p
filter of sorts
silicone TIP
FMIC

that should see you with about 230hp with your ko3s

i personally think your 199hp is a tad low, so id be looking into getting another map, and/or the current map and the car looked at.
whether you want to get all the stage2 supporting mods is down to your budget really and whether you see yourself doing them eventually, in which case another stage1 might seem a little pointless

 

[<tuffty/>]

A K03s in good condition with all the right mods etc can see the right side of 220hp... in reality this does vary quite a bit...

Most typically do between 210hp and 220hp... adding a FMIC will always help as will a silicon TIP (assuming you haven't got one as you didn't list it)... there are threads in the stickies to help with both of these and most people fit the eBay coolers with good results but the main thing with those is the pipework as the AUM has a MAP sensor and not all the kits cater for this..

Do you what map you have? Revo stage 2 is a cheap upgrade IIRC and Bill @ Badger5 does custom remaps using the dyno to ensure everything is working as it should...

<tuffty/>

 

[A3AH]

tbh I think that 200bhp isn't that bad. I don't understand why anyone would want to do anything by halfs but that's just my opinion.
If your considering a stage 2 car, i think brakes and swhould be on the list before you consider things like FMIC's.

I got my car stage 1 remapped yesterday, with a silicone TIP, Jetex cone filter and a Forge 007p and I was dyno'd at 212bhp on an AUM.

If you wanted more power from what you got now, then the supporting mods would be TIP if you haven't already, and as stated a Decat, whether these will give you numbers I don't know but they will deffo increase performance.

 

[Pops848]

fmic isnt too expensive to do, around £200, so in my opinion its worth getting that done before another map, you should be seeing more power than that really.

for stage 2 you will need:
downpipe and decat/cat
007p
filter of sorts
silicone TIP
FMIC

that should see you with about 230hp with your ko3s

i personally think your 199hp is a tad low, so id be looking into getting another map, and/or the current map and the car looked at.
whether you want to get all the stage2 supporting mods is down to your budget really and whether you see yourself doing them eventually, in which case another stage1 might seem a little pointless

I have a downpipe and race cat, are these ok to leave in or is it best to de-cat and reattach it for the MOT?
The only other upgrades I need will be the FMIC, any suggestions as to a decent one that is not held together with spit and glue?

 

[Alais DJA]

I have a downpipe and race cat, are these ok to leave in or is it best to de-cat and reattach it for the MOT?
The only other upgrades I need will be the FMIC, any suggestions as to a decent one that is not held together with spit and glue?

Ask yourself 1 question.....

How much BHP do i want...and can i afford to maintain it - i'd go from there

Marcus

 

[Alais DJA]

I have an 8L 1.8T (2001)
It's a AUM engine, K03s turbo,

And how are you sure it is a KO3s - I was only led to believe the 2001 8L TQS had KO3 as standard

 

[Prawn]

All AUM engines had the ko3S as standard marcus, and on teh whole, all facelift cars are AUM engine'd. Simples.

personally, I agree that 199bhp with a downpipe is low.

Average stage 1 maps tend to make 200bhp on a healthy car, a good car like A3Ah's will see 210bhp from an Rtech stage 1.

My Rtech stage 1 with a downpipe made 224bhp, which is more the kind of figure I'd be looking at with a full exhaust and a decent map.

Stage 2 won't do much for your peak bhp figures, although torque will increase a fair bit, and mid range bhp and torque will be up massively compared to the stage 1.

 

[16Klappe]

I have a downpipe and race cat, are these ok to leave in or is it best to de-cat and reattach it for the MOT?
The only other upgrades I need will be the FMIC, any suggestions as to a decent one that is not held together with spit and glue?

Ask yourself 1 question.....

How much BHP do i want...and can i afford to maintain it - i'd go from there

Marcus

Dude...

That's two questions.

 

[A3AH]

Dude...

That's two questions.

You've got a point lol.

 

[Alais DJA]

I just didnt sound right.

I really should check my own engine code some day - the manager at Oxford Audi that i got mine from installed the KO3s 6 months before i got it as i was under the impression only the facelift 1.8t's got KO3s - though on point - stranger things have happened while scanning these forums past few months.

And considering im getting stick for quoting 209 bhp on mine BEFORE i got the fueling sorted - im starting to think i better get mine back on the dyno with the TIP. 225 anyone?

 

[A3AH]

I just didnt sound right.

I really should check my own engine code some day - the manager at Oxford Audi that i got mine from installed the KO3s 6 months before i got it as i was under the impression only the facelift 1.8t's got KO3s - though on point - stranger things have happened while scanning these forums past few months.

And considering im getting stick for quoting 209 bhp on mine BEFORE i got the fueling sorted - im starting to think i better get mine back on the dyno with the TIP. 225 anyone?

Thats what prawn said, most facelift have AUM and all AUM have ko3s.

 

[aragorn]

*ALL* AUM, AUQ, ARX and ARY engines have the same turbocharger, which is known as the K03s.

Doesnt matter if its facelift or not, if it has one of those engine codes, it has a K03s.

 

[16Klappe]

Hang on a second Alais DJA, I distinctly remember your first post saying that your car was 254BHP on a K03s and that you had some top secret map emailed to uour tuner?

 

[Pops848]

I just didnt sound right.

I really should check my own engine code some day - the manager at Oxford Audi that i got mine from installed the KO3s 6 months before i got it as i was under the impression only the facelift 1.8t's got KO3s - though on point - stranger things have happened while scanning these forums past few months.

And considering im getting stick for quoting 209 bhp on mine BEFORE i got the fueling sorted - im starting to think i better get mine back on the dyno with the TIP. 225 anyone?

Mine is a facelift model. It's 2001.

 

[Alais DJA]

Hang on a second Alais DJA, I distinctly remember your first post saying that your car was 254BHP on a K03s and that you had some top secret map emailed to uour tuner?

yes it was, but the second run popped out a 208 / 211 / then 209.

spoke to tuffty ( I think) who said it was clutch slip - which ironically was replaced in december. The map is a fancy one admitted. I've heard through people here that chipped uk mapping has had some issues, but seriously - this map went back and forth to them for over an hour while on the dyno. They have point blank refused to send me the map itself as it's "encoded" and will send me the dyno readout at my own cost....which they can blow me for. £200 for a map - you can send me a sheet of ****** A4 - but they will re-jig it for a partial payment when the Hybrid goes on in July. ****** northeners, i swear they put something funny in the water that thinks they can mug off southerns.

 

[<tuffty/>]

Wheelspin on the rollers will cause a higher figure to be recorded... as will no dipping the clutch quickly enough (or in my case at all...) at the end of a dyno run generating higher losses on coastdown than there actually was... I need to dyno more cars to get my eye back in lol...

<tuffty/>

 

[aragorn]

Go elsewhere then.

If the ECU can read the map, then so can anyone else

 

[Alais DJA]

Go elsewhere then.

If the ECU can read the map, then so can anyone else

So it's bull then?

They should be able to send it to me in a format that is readable....

 

[aragorn]

Ofcourse, but they choose not to, because you could then go off and give/sell that file to others.

The ECU will only read and execute code that it recognises, so once its in the ECU's flash rom it must be stored in a format which the ECU can understand, and is thus standardised.

The actual file they email to a tuner MAY be encrypted, if its used along with their own flash tool, but once actually flashed to the ECU it cant be, otherwise it simply wouldnt work.

 

[Alais DJA]

It's annoying because even though my mechanic has been using them for 2 years with no issues - only ever positive feedback really - there's always the doubt of "what if "

I suppose when the hybrid goes on in the summer - it will have to be re-mapped then...and go from there.

 

[Pops848]

A K03s in good condition with all the right mods etc can see the right side of 220hp... in reality this does vary quite a bit...

Most typically do between 210hp and 220hp... adding a FMIC will always help as will a silicon TIP (assuming you haven't got one as you didn't list it)... there are threads in the stickies to help with both of these and most people fit the eBay coolers with good results but the main thing with those is the pipework as the AUM has a MAP sensor and not all the kits cater for this..

Do you what map you have? Revo stage 2 is a cheap upgrade IIRC and Bill @ Badger5 does custom remaps using the dyno to ensure everything is working as it should...

<tuffty/>

It has a REVO stage 1 Map, with full milltek, large bore down pipe and non resonated cat back. I wouldv'e expected that this would kick out a little over 200bhp rather then just under?

 

[<tuffty/>]

It has a REVO stage 1 Map, with full milltek, large bore down pipe and non resonated cat back. I wouldv'e expected that this would kick out a little over 200bhp rather then just under?

Humm... can't remember what the last K03s turbo'd VAG put out on one of those... I think the stage 2 upgrade for Revo is pretty cheap tbh... £50 ish iirc?

50hp from a stage 1 map is pretty good tbh...

<tuffty/>

 

[Pops848]

Humm... can't remember what the last K03s turbo'd VAG put out on one of those... I think the stage 2 upgrade for Revo is pretty cheap tbh... £50 ish iirc?

50hp from a stage 1 map is pretty good tbh...

<tuffty/>

Cheap enough for the remap then! I'm just looking up on FMIC and TIP's, just checked out your custom FMIC, looks sweet with the fog lights still in. The ebay jobby, although cheaper and works ok (was looking at prawns write up) it seems to stick out like a sore thumb. I'm looking for as much BHP, but trying to keep it standard-ish looking.

 

[superkarl]

Cheap enough for the remap then! I'm just looking up on FMIC and TIP's, just checked out your custom FMIC, looks sweet with the fog lights still in. The ebay jobby, although cheaper and works ok (was looking at prawns write up) it seems to stick out like a sore thumb. I'm looking for as much BHP, but trying to keep it standard-ish looking.

tbh that ebay cooler on a stage2 a3 is a little overkill.
i think prawns setup before the wellycooler was adequate.

 

[Dark Knight]

Topic close to my heart here =D im debating stage 2 at the minute also but not sure whether or not it is worth it, economically and power wise as i have also thought about doing a hybrid charger.

I have a 2001 AUM A3 which has the following:
milltek downpipe & sports cat
powerflow cat back exhaust
BMC CDA
Forge 007p dv
Forge silicone TIP
and a custom code stage 1 remap done at storm developments with a flywheel figure of 235bhp
however i dont really know how to read the graphs properly and the curve doesnt go to that figure and it does state its estimated, my plan is to get it on the rollers at Corten Miller and have a chat with them and also Andy waters at AW Motorsport about next steps. TBH im just happy with the massive increase over having driven a polo 6n previously lol

 

[16Klappe]

I have a toyosports intercooler, with the core sprayed black and the pipes black you would hardly notice it at first glance. Most people just mount them wrong.

My only criticism, and I am not sure how valid it is; is that the pipes are a little small so it might need upgrading if you went bigger than a K03/K04. Otherwise it is a good kit. Prawns fitted literally 10s of these things to friends cars.

 

[aragorn]

Topic close to my heart here =D im debating stage 2 at the minute also but not sure whether or not it is worth it, economically and power wise as i have also thought about doing a hybrid charger.

I have a 2001 AUM A3 which has the following:
milltek downpipe & sports cat
powerflow cat back exhaust
BMC CDA
Forge 007p dv
Forge silicone TIP
and a custom code stage 1 remap done at storm developments with a flywheel figure of 235bhp
however i dont really know how to read the graphs properly and the curve doesnt go to that figure and it does state its estimated, my plan is to get it on the rollers at Corten Miller and have a chat with them and also Andy waters at AW Motorsport about next steps. TBH im just happy with the massive increase over having driven a polo 6n previously lol

I think your first step is to find out how much power you actually have.

If you do have 235hp, then theres probably little point changing as your likely already running what is effectively stage2 power.

 

[16Klappe]

Topic close to my heart here =D im debating stage 2 at the minute also but not sure whether or not it is worth it, economically and power wise as i have also thought about doing a hybrid charger.

I have a 2001 AUM A3 which has the following:
milltek downpipe & sports cat
powerflow cat back exhaust
BMC CDA
Forge 007p dv
Forge silicone TIP
and a custom code stage 1 remap done at storm developments with a flywheel figure of 235bhp
however i dont really know how to read the graphs properly and the curve doesnt go to that figure and it does state its estimated, my plan is to get it on the rollers at Corten Miller and have a chat with them and also Andy waters at AW Motorsport about next steps. TBH im just happy with the massive increase over having driven a polo 6n previously lol

I think your first step is to find out how much power you actually have.

If you do have 235hp, then theres probably little point changing as your likely already running what is effectively stage2 power.

That figure will be high Kev, Storm Developments have nicely optimistic rollers. No universal/generic custard code map would ever make that sort of power.

Those mods and a Custard Code ST1, I would say 225. Put an actuator on it and take the same car to Niki at RTech and you could be looking at 240bhp.

 

[aragorn]

yeh,but even still i'm not convinced another remap is really worth it to go from 225 to 240. Its one thing paying a small amount to go from Revo ST1 to ST2 for example, but going to a different tuner and paying out the full price for a custom map i'm not sure is really worth it.

This is the main reason i've never bothered mapping my Avant. It has a K03 so maxed out will do 195ish, but its mapped to 180hp from the factory, so i'd be paying out the full remap money, to gain only 15hp. Once its hybrid turbo is on then i'll go get it tuned for a decent increase.

 

[16Klappe]

yeh,but even still i'm not convinced another remap is really worth it to go from 225 to 240. Its one thing paying a small amount to go from Revo ST1 to ST2 for example, but going to a different tuner and paying out the full price for a custom map i'm not sure is really worth it.

This is the main reason i've never bothered mapping my Avant. It has a K03 so maxed out will do 195ish, but its mapped to 180hp from the factory, so i'd be paying out the full remap money, to gain only 15hp. Once its hybrid turbo is on then i'll go get it tuned for a decent increase.

I agree with a fair amount of what you say, but I think it is worth going stage 2.

It transforms the drive totally, IMO stage 2 makes it drive as it should. You have the torque and power but it is everywhere, right across the rev range. Stage 2 is just so much nicer to drive.

The K03s is so much better than the K03, it has a lot more to give. If asked my car will give 20psi from 2 to 6000 rpm, with appropriate timing there is scope for a HUGE power band.

I say a stage two A3 1.8t is perfect for a road car, lots of torque and a great useable power figure. IMO as a daily driven road car anything past that is overkill, the chassis won't be happy with more power without some pricey upgrades.

 

[Jason.s]

You`d pay for the bigger increase in torque more so than hp figures. If you took my figures into account you`d gain 20hp and 40ft-lbs ontop of the 180 standard figure and that would be a nice little gain in driveability and performance. More so from the torque.

 

[<tuffty/>]

Stage 2 normally lifts mid range... top end power can be upped a tad through timing but that varies from car to car...

<tuffty/>

 

[Jimgrim77]

Stage 2 normally lifts mid range... top end power can be upped a tad through timing but that varies from car to car...

<tuffty/>

Agreed.

But that mid range improvement shouldn't be underestimated. As most are aware, the car will drive so much better.

 

[R-Tech-Nick]

That figure will be high Kev, Storm Developments have nicely optimistic rollers. No universal/generic custard code map would ever make that sort of power.

Those mods and a Custard Code ST1, I would say 225. Put an actuator on it and take the same car to Niki at RTech and you could be looking at 240bhp.

Its only the large port AGU with K03s/forge actuator with 2.75" maf 310cc injectors which Iam cracking the 240-247bhp BHP mark with ease.

The AUM tends to crack 232-237bhp from a custom setup with correct mods with a strong actuator, and around 222-225bhp from decat and exhaust, and around 205-212bhp from a stage1. The biggest diffrence between each stage of tune is the torque band.

Going from a stage2 222bhp/240lbft map to a full custom stage2 with supporting mode and getting 230+bhp 270+lbft is night and day, only 8bhp gain on peak power but upto 30lbft more across the midrange and still not going over 21psi boost.

 

[Dark Knight]

yeh as i said i think my figure is highly unlikely and actually its probably pushing out more like 200 so a little low really.

my understanding is that stage 2 is just better in general for the car as stage 1 is a generic map whereas 2 is tuned to the individual car??

I actually message the phirm about doing a stage 2 and they said an fmic would actually "exasperate" the ko3s and that stage 2 can be done without one. its all very confusing, i miss the simple life of cars lol i just want a nice semi-economical car with good power

 

[16Klappe]

yeh as i said i think my figure is highly unlikely and actually its probably pushing out more like 200 so a little low really.

my understanding is that stage 2 is just better in general for the car as stage 1 is a generic map whereas 2 is tuned to the individual car??

I actually message the phirm about doing a stage 2 and they said an fmic would actually "exasperate" the ko3s and that stage 2 can be done without one. its all very confusing, i miss the simple life of cars lol i just want a nice semi-economical car with good power

Pre 1996 VAG bible wad pretty much written by TP. Wouldn't let them work on my 1.8t though. Its like taking your Audi to a BMW specialist lol

Great company, brilliant guys. But old school none the less.

 

[Prawn]

as above really, jardo and tufty have it Summed up, I think you're looking at it all wrong kev.

If for example your stage 1 made peak figures of 220bhp @5800rpm, and the stage 2 made 230bhp at 6000rpm, you've only gained 10bhp peak, which sounds crap, but those maps might be making 180bhp at 4000rpm on the stage 1, where the stage 2 map will be making 210bhp at 4000rpm, so although the peak only rises maybe 10bhp or so, you're up 30bhp in the midrange.

That's just an example, but I've seen, worked on, and driven lots of ko3S car in all various states of tune, and the stage 2 mapping really is night and day over a stage 1, in some places you're looking at 30-40lbft more torque in the mid range compared to a stage 1!

 

[aragorn]

ye fair enough i probably have been looking at it the wrong way, hybrids about to go on anyway though, so i'll fit that then sort out the map!

 

[badger5]

yes it was, but the second run popped out a 208 / 211 / then 209.

spoke to tuffty ( I think) who said it was clutch slip - which ironically was replaced in december. The map is a fancy one admitted. I've heard through people here that chipped uk mapping has had some issues, but seriously - this map went back and forth to them for over an hour while on the dyno. They have point blank refused to send me the map itself as it's "encoded" and will send me the dyno readout at my own cost....which they can blow me for. £200 for a map - you can send me a sheet of ****** A4 - but they will re-jig it for a partial payment when the Hybrid goes on in July. ****** northeners, i swear they put something funny in the water that thinks they can mug off southerns.

thats funny when you can call brummies "Northerners" lmao