Haldex system confusion

[S3LOUD]

Okay this is basically the deal. Bought an S3 amk and has a load os issues, one I'm dealing with now is the haldex system,
When full locking my wheels feel as if they are dragging and locking up. Ive done a haldex oil and filter change and that did nothing. Audi said the only other thing you could do is replace the haldex clutches and controller pump. I sourced these two and took it to a audi specialist to be fitted today. The garage then phoned me and said that with haldex clutches they are designed to only work properly in the diff that they came out of the factory with due to something called a "pinion" and if they did put these clutches into my existing diff it would just whine.
Now i spoke to Awesome GTi (Where i bought the haldex controller and clutches from) and they said that they have one haldex clutch replacements before and there has never been a need for finding another diff. They said they just drop in and drop out and all just work. They also said that Audi sell haldex clutches separately so if this was the case they in theory wouldn't work without another diff.
Long story short, does anyone know who is correct in all of this? Will the haldex clutches be fine to replace with my existing diff? or will they whine and does this mean i'll need to also buy the diff??
By the way sorry for the life story ^^ lool.

 

[superkarl]

i imagine that you wont get many if any definitive answers here, because most people replace the whole haldex coupling and rear diff, not just the internals.

but, id trust awesome on this one. they sell them for a reason. take your car to them for it to be fitted, or another specialist, i imagine labour rates will be cheaper for sure.

btw, what did you pay for a replacement haldex clutch pack??

 

[s3dave]

It sounds like the garage cannot or will not strip the haldex unit, and want you to buy the complete lot, labour for stripping may well be dearer than just replacing a decent second hand unit?

 

[S3LOUD]

Ohh okay. Yeah i was thinking that too. I've found another specialist that say that they can fit it without the diff its just i was worried that what the 1st garage said about the whining diff may actually be true but what you guys are saying makes a lot more sense.
Yeah awesome just said as long as it isn't run up with no oil or anything like that then it should be fine so on that basis i think what your saying about the garage not wanting to split the diff is probably the reason.
errm i managed to pick up a the haldex clutch pack and the haldex controller pump for £300 but they aren't brand new, they were taken off of another fully working system so hopefully should work with mine lol.

 

[S3featesV9]

Mine is doing the same at low speeds. Praying an oil change will solve this as I have no money due to having engine stripped and repaired this week. One thing after another at the moment!!

 

[S3LOUD]

Mine is doing the same at low speeds. Praying an oil change will solve this as I have no money due to having engine stripped and repaired this week. One thing after another at the moment!!

I can relate to that mate. Spent £1500 this month alone on just repairs. Yeah hopefully an oil and filter change should just cure that. If not then whatever you do do not take it to audi for a diagnosis which is what i stupidly did. Got charge £78 and they couldn't tell me anything of any use what so ever -_-.

 

[S3featesV9]

Picking car bk up Monday. So will update then. Probably feel sick after I pay the £1230 bill.

 

[S3LOUD]

Picking car bk up Monday. So will update then. Probably feel sick after I pay the £1230 bill.

£1230 bill?! ouch! .. don't worry though, the first time you plant your foot to the floor and hear that engine purring then it'll all be worth it .
One thing I've learned in this first month of owning my s3 is... 1.8t life.... Not Cheap At All! lol

 

[S3featesV9]

Well it's not too bad really. Considering all the work they have done. How much did you pay for clutch packs?

 

[S3LOUD]

Paid £300 for clutch pack and controller pump and the place I'm taking it to fit are charging me £150 labour for that and to do the haldex oil and filter change if i supply the oil and filter myself so not too bad i don't think .

 

[thegoal007]

£1230 bill?! ouch! .. don't worry though, the first time you plant your foot to the floor and hear that engine purring then it'll all be worth it .
One thing I've learned in this first month of owning my s3 is... 1.8t life.... Not Cheap At All! lol

plant your foot down after spending £1230.....er, I would drive it conservatively until the money is in the distant past.

 

[thegoal007]

Paid £300 for clutch pack and controller pump and the place I'm taking it to fit are charging me £150 labour for that and to do the haldex oil and filter change if i supply the oil and filter myself so not too bad i don't think .

Do let us know who got the labour job and if they managed to sort it out and do a good job.

 

[S3LOUD]

plant your foot down after spending £1230.....er, I would drive it conservatively until the money is in the distant past.

Trust me after spending that much your gonna wanna feel the benefits of everything you just paid for lol. After you've let the engine bed in of course lool.

 

[S3LOUD]

Do let us know who got the labour job and if they managed to sort it out and do a good job.

Yeah will do . Just dropped the car off this morning so hopefully should have it back tomorrow and hoping to have some good news to post up here afterwards too

 

[S3LOUD]

Okay... so i got my car back, a final charge of £230 for everything.
They fit the haldex clutch, controller pump and oil and filter change and the dragging issue is still continuing.
Garage actually told me that now the haldex was never the issue and it actually is only the diff that is the issue . he told me that my old haldex clutches and controller pump are in working order.
So now my haldex clutch packs and controller pump are up for sale. Im just looking to make what i spent on the other haldex equipment back so £300 for the clutch and pump if anyones interested ...

 

[S3featesV9]

so whats wrong with the diff?

 

[S3LOUD]

so whats wrong with the diff?

On full lock at slow speeds the car feels like it is dragging and doesn't let me free wheel. They didn't say exactly what it is, they just said thats the final component and that has to be the reason for the fault because I've changed everything else that it can possibly be. Im just hoping that this is finally gonna cure the issue...

 

[S3featesV9]

All the wiring to controller is deffo ok then? How much is a diff setting you back?

 

[sportstractor]

So what there saying is, if you were to disconnect the prop, the diff would still lock, strange as I though it was an open diff on the front and rear of an s3.

 

[Essflee]

Have you done a search on here for the fault, I remember reading about somebody else having this fault in the last 2-3 years, can't for the life of me remember what the outcome was.

 

[thegoal007]

Have you done a search on here for the fault, I remember reading about somebody else having this fault in the last 2-3 years, can't for the life of me remember what the outcome was.

some say...the haldex controller
some say... filter & fluids change in haldex
some say....I could go on and on.

As this problem seems to be very common and many solutions - I would look specifically at solutions noted against your year/model.

You may end up changing everything at the rear, including the diff and find the problem is at the other end of the car. I read one guy did exactly that only to find his cure was the abs/ecu control unit !

good luck, in the mean time take it easy on those sharp corners.

btw, you mention on slow speeds on full lock. I bet you will find the same problem at whatever speed on near full lock. And when going fast round very sharp roundabouts you may notice the esp light flicker....I should now !

 

[S3LOUD]

Yeah thats exactly it. its more prominent at slow speeds but when i do take a hard corner the esp light does flicker... i just turn it off and that usually fixes the issue ;O lool. Yeah i asked the garage to re-check the wiring with the haldex and they said theres no issues there at all with any of that and i picked up a diff for £100. I hope that this solves this issue but to be honest i have a feeling that i am going to be one of those cases where i'll change everything and its gonna be the last thing i do lol. But i guess its the process of elimination lol. Diff is on its way and imma have to wait a couple weeks before i can afford to get it fitted lol. I'll keep everyone posted with the updates... hopefully should come to a conclusion relatively soon lol.

By the way if it is ecu related or any electrical fault, it should flag on the vagcom right?? *fingers crossed*

 

[S3featesV9]

Well soon as i get my car back after the oil issue is sorted. This problem your having is next on my list. So I will be watching this thread closely!

 

[aragorn]

plant your foot down after spending £1230.....er, I would drive it conservatively until the money is in the distant past.

Quite the opposite is advised.

With my newly built engine i thoroughly warmed it up then took it out and gave it a controlled kicking. N75 disconnected and full load in a high gear to generate cylinder pressures to bed the rings, then closed throttle and overrun back down the revs to vacuum all the crap out the exhaust. Went out and did about 40miles, giving it load then vacuum then repeat, and you could feel the engine getting more and more powerful with every pull. Back home, changed the oil and then drove it normally, avoiding constant load/rpm (ie no motorway cruising) for the first 500miles or so. Then N75 back on and enjoy.

Load is good for a newly built engine, babying it and driving like a granny is not!

 

[thegoal007]

Quite the opposite is advised.

With my newly built engine i thoroughly warmed it up then took it out and gave it a controlled kicking. N75 disconnected and full load in a high gear to generate cylinder pressures to bed the rings, then closed throttle and overrun back down the revs to vacuum all the crap out the exhaust. Went out and did about 40miles, giving it load then vacuum then repeat, and you could feel the engine getting more and more powerful with every pull. Back home, changed the oil and then drove it normally, avoiding constant load/rpm (ie no motorway cruising) for the first 500miles or so. Then N75 back on and enjoy.

Load is good for a newly built engine, babying it and driving like a granny is not!

Well, I stand corrected, but the comment was based more on psycological forces taking over

Although effectively if there's a lot of new stuff under the hood wouldn't it be like buying a new car and so the general advice would be to take it easy the first X miles ?

 

[thegoal007]

Yeah thats exactly it. its more prominent at slow speeds but when i do take a hard corner the esp light does flicker... i just turn it off and that usually fixes the issue ;O lool. Yeah i asked the garage to re-check the wiring with the haldex and they said theres no issues there at all with any of that and i picked up a diff for £100. I hope that this solves this issue but to be honest i have a feeling that i am going to be one of those cases where i'll change everything and its gonna be the last thing i do lol. But i guess its the process of elimination lol. Diff is on its way and imma have to wait a couple weeks before i can afford to get it fitted lol. I'll keep everyone posted with the updates... hopefully should come to a conclusion relatively soon lol.

By the way if it is ecu related or any electrical fault, it should flag on the vagcom right?? *fingers crossed*

Apparently not, in most cases of this problem I have read there have been NO VCD ERRORS whatsoever - even though solutions varied, try figuring that out ! transient electrical issues will not show up on vcds. 'generally' most replace the whole rear end from a salvage yard as someone I think has already suggested earlier. It's cheaper and covers a number of possible problem areas.

So let's add this to the checklist of things you must look out for when buying an S3.

btw, on vcd's you can actually check to make sure the controller pump works. did u first check it ?

 

[S3LOUD]

Apparently not, in most cases of this problem I have read there have been NO VCD ERRORS whatsoever - even though solutions varied, try figuring that out ! transient electrical issues will not show up on vcds. 'generally' most replace the whole rear end from a salvage yard as someone I think has already suggested earlier. It's cheaper and covers a number of possible problem areas.

So let's add this to the checklist of things you must look out for when buying an S3.

btw, on vcd's you can actually check to make sure the controller pump works. did u first check it ?

You can :O?! no i didn't know this! when i asked audi they said the only way to check is to remove it and thats why they didn't run it on a diagnostics ?! also when i put it on the vagcom myself i didn't see any specific option to check the controller pump X_x.
How do you go about checking this on a vagcom??

 

[thegoal007]

If we are talking about the same pump then in vcd control module selection screen. pick 22-AWD and then select output tests - 3 and hit start/next. This will go through putting the precharge pump on and off and the awd clutch off/on. When the precharge pump is on it should make a noise. Obviously with the ignition on only.

I went through the tests with my engine started and after the tests no rear locking ! And it was there consistently before the tests. So in my opinion there is an electrical problem causing this mechanical issue.

 

[S3LOUD]

If we are talking about the same pump then in vcd control module selection screen. pick 22-AWD and then select output tests - 3 and hit start/next. This will go through putting the precharge pump on and off and the awd clutch off/on. When the precharge pump is on it should make a noise. Obviously with the ignition on only.

I went through the tests with my engine started and after the tests no rear locking ! And it was there consistently before the tests. So in my opinion there is an electrical problem causing this mechanical issue.

wow! okay, i'll get it on the vcd again and give it a go and hope for the best that it is just that! thanks a lot i'll keep you all posted with updates

 

[thegoal007]

wow! okay, i'll get it on the vcd again and give it a go and hope for the best that it is just that! thanks a lot i'll keep you all posted with updates

I'm sure if you switch the engine off and then back on again , the problem might re-appear or if doesn't it will at some point later. I'm not saying that was the cure, but there is obviously a problem somewhere likely to re-occur.
And don't forget so many solutions for different problem so it may not work at all for you - go for it , try it.
btw, what year is yours ? modified ?

I done the test with the engine not running. After finishing the test I would start the car and feel the same problem still there.
Started the car, felt the problem still there and re-done tests whilst engine still running and tried the 3 point turn and no problem !
Switched the engine off and back on tried test, still OK.
I wasn't going to keep switching engine on/off - in and out of the garage to keep testing, but I will check again tomorrow.
if the problem re-appears I will retry the whole procedure again and see if running the test consistently fix the problem....albeit intermittently !

 

[S3LOUD]

I'm sure if you switch the engine off and then back on again , the problem might re-appear or if doesn't it will at some point later. I'm not saying that was the cure, but there is obviously a problem somewhere likely to re-occur.
And don't forget so many solutions for different problem so it may not work at all for you - go for it , try it.
btw, what year is yours ? modified ?

I done the test with the engine not running. After finishing the test I would start the car and feel the same problem still there.
Started the car, felt the problem still there and re-done tests whilst engine still running and tried the 3 point turn and no problem !
Switched the engine off and back on tried test, still OK.
I wasn't going to keep switching engine on/off - in and out of the garage to keep testing, but I will check again tomorrow.
if the problem re-appears I will retry the whole procedure again and see if running the test consistently fix the problem....albeit intermittently !

Mines a 2001 with a few modifications but not too much. Ohhh so this is something youve done recently?? i thought that this is something you had done a while back and it worked as a solution. Hopefully that is the case when you do check tomorrow though !
Yeah i know it may not work for me because these cars are so tempromental it could still be a number of things for me lol.
But hopefully you never know too lol.
Yeah if you could let me know how the car feels tomorow it'l be much appreciated mate

 

[thegoal007]

Cars been in garage (my house) since last attempt. Just got in and problem is there again. Left the engine running, ran through the tests again as mentioned above and miracle...problem gone. Whether it stays fine after a long drive , without switching it off I don't know. I may take it out on Saturday for a bit of a run. I'll get it all working with the laptop first and then we'll see !

I think tomorrow I will do tests again, but check it after each section of the test and see which one actually cures the problem. From memory it does pre-charge pump off and on , awd clutch disengage and engage.

My problem was originally intermittent, but lately (in the last 6 months) is always happening in the conditions you too are experiencing. And I'm positive the pre-charge pump could be heard when doing the test when the engine was not started, but now every time I do the test I cannot hear anything.

Have you tried anything ?

 

[S3LOUD]

Naah i havent tried anything like that to be honest. I mean ive only owned the car for nearly two months now and when i bought it it already had this issue. As it was on 20's at the time and i could see it rubbing i just assumed thats all it was and neevr took any notice of it so i dont really know what the pump should sound like and i havent really tried listneing for it. Tomorrow i'll have a listen to see if i notice anything.
The garage i took it to said everything was working okay with that side of things but it is always better to double check yourselves because garages words are never always bulletproof lol.
i'll let you know tomorrow if i do hear anything when i check

 

[thegoal007]

It is certainly a noticeable noise when your testing. It will be hard for you to miss it.
I once heard about an AA inspection done and the problem was not picked up and in theory when the problem is intermittent, like in most cases it would be difficult to spot.
I think an idea here would be to turn the engine off/on a few times on your long test run , whilst testing this area as well as giving it a long good run. - we live and learn.....

Just noticed after re-reading this you said switching the esp prevented the problem from occurring. With me , it makes no difference.....so maybe our problems are different !

 

[S3LOUD]

So this is just a little update. Still no cure found on the issue im having, still awaiting to fit the diff which should be done in the next couple weeks or so. Plugged car into a vagcom and nothing of any relevance to the haldex is coming up at all.
I am getting a knocking sound from the rear of the car when i am stand still which is quite noticable. This doesnt happen all of the time but i was just wondering if anyone knew what this could be and if this could be related to the issue???
Thanks for the help!

 

[superkarl]

haldex pre charge pump. going 'knock knock knock knock knock'
do a check on the haldex in vagcom, you can cycle the pump and system, which engages the haldex clutch and disengages it. this will chech if it indeed works.
other than that, i dont know what to suggest

 

[S3LOUD]

okay cool i will hook it up into vagcom again next week and see what comes up and let you guys know .

 

[thegoal007]

okay cool i will hook it up into vagcom again next week and see what comes up and let you guys know .

I have already mentioned about thes tests in vagcom, further up in my posts......
with the engine ignition on only , run throguh the test and I'm pretty sure you should hear the pump make noise as it sets it on and then should stop when ending the test. Maybe someone who does not have any issues can try and confirm this for us.
Mine does not make noise - so I think there is a problem.
The startling discovery I have made is that when the engine is running and I run through the tests and put the laptop away I find the problem has completely gone away. Again what that means......I'm not sure (electrical Haldex controller issue ?).
This discovery is a fact because as I do a sharp righ(or left) out of my garage I feel like the rear wheels are locking/ceasing. So I stop hook up the laptop, run through the test , disconnect and continue on my travels with no issue.
When I switch the engine off and on the problem comes back.

Maybe someone can figure out what the h*ll is going on here. Upshot - this problem is electrical and NOT mechanical, well certainly in my situation.
Oh and I should add there is no corrosion on the wires/plug into the controller and no errors shown up on vagcom (which is pretty much nearly everyones experience with these issues).
Further last note, running through the tests when engine is off and then starting car basically does nothing - the problem remains.

 

[Erf]

How much is the labour to fix the rear diff? I'm having a few haldex issues and I think the easiest thing would be for me to replace the rear diff and haldex assembley...would be interested to know how much this will be.

 

[thegoal007]

How much is the labour to fix the rear diff? I'm having a few haldex issues and I think the easiest thing would be for me to replace the rear diff and haldex assembley...would be interested to know how much this will be.

certainly that's the route most people take and probably the most economic in the long run. I remember one guy said he paid £150 labour for them to fit a second hand unit. With so many of our cars suffering this problem just take care purchasing a second hand unit.