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Thread: Stacey's Belated Yo Yo Build Thread

  1. #1801
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    bill do you tap into the oil feed for turbo with your pressure gauge??
    i may do this on first start up just to keep an eye on things.

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  3. #1802
    RIP S3dave

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    Quote Originally Posted by superkarl View Post
    bill do you tap into the oil feed for turbo with your pressure gauge??
    i may do this on first start up just to keep an eye on things.
    I have on this one, got some special fittings friday to allow me to do this.

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    Comparison of previous turbo to gtx one.
    Care done (for now)



    there's more left in the gtx for sure, however my confidence in the car is low given its multiple issues thus far, and stacey needs the car back for work tuesday, and has additional parts to fit to the car.
    I am not convinced the cams are doing anything other than hindering the tune... The ign timing the car will tolerate is simply too low to want to force it with sheer brute force and boost. It responds to boost however very well, so more left in it to access when it can also support the proper ign adv it should also run. To drive it hard with sheer boost alone, results in high cyl temps and poor repeatability despite wmi on 50/50 also running.

    Run it about as is, shake it down, it is all essentially brand new after all, and when the remaining bits have been added, oil cooler, oil gauges etc, and std cams OR alternate known to work cams, then we will try again on the mapping and see what we can encourage out of it.

    Switchable Multiple maps also employed and a sample of some of them below:
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    lest folks forget.... We have had to fix a low oil pressure issue on this motor..... which resulted in this on #2 big end shell


    All new Shells fitted in situ for mains and big ends... Std Size

    15W50 double ester based fully synth oil also used to stabilise oil pressures... FUCHs stuff.

    Pressure is on Factory "minimums" or just above them now... Tolerable. (badgerwagen runs 30psi more for example)
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    Been a long hard road this one.

    What does a crank look like when the big end shells end up like that?

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    Its been a rediculously bumpy road and still not over

    Big thanks to bill with this as I think anything and everything that could possibly go wrong has done

    Some have been my fault, some other peoples and other things jusy completely bad luck and unforeseen.....live and learn... made some choices that would be quite different with what is known now like cams and extra clearance bearings which was a very bad choice

    Am now near the end of the 3rd train on my route accross country to pick tye car up and really cant wait but am scared of breaking it....confidence will come with time, but it will be one hell of an adrenaline rush when I open it up after not driving it for around 5 months with only the ocassional drive of a ka lol :D
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  8. #1807
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    Quote Originally Posted by StaceyS3 View Post
    Its been a rediculously bumpy road and still not over

    Big thanks to bill with this as I think anything and everything that could possibly go wrong has done

    Some have been my fault, some other peoples and other things jusy completely bad luck and unforeseen.....live and learn... made some choices that would be quite different with what is known now like cams and extra clearance bearings which was a very bad choice

    Am now near the end of the 3rd train on my route accross country to pick tye car up and really cant wait but am scared of breaking it....confidence will come with time, but it will be one hell of an adrenaline rush when I open it up after not driving it for around 5 months with only the ocassional drive of a ka lol :D
    maybe leave on map 5 lowest and ease your way down the maps to the full power one
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  9. #1808
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    Quote Originally Posted by superkarl View Post
    Been a long hard road this one.

    What does a crank look like when the big end shells end up like that?
    pictures were on fb..
    here below as reminder
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    406lbft equivalent torque btw.... It will be no slouch as is..
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    Bill, and stacey, check out the cam comparison thread on vortex! Note the specs of staceys cams that he posted a pic of, then compare that to the specs of marks that he posted recently. Staceys seem pretty poo in comparison in terms of lift and duration, i bet staceys been given the wrong ones by cat!

    240 deg vs 268 is that of marks?
    8.xx lift vs 9.xx etc etc. Thas not right surely

  12. #1811
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    The Bob Q purple cams Stacey has do not have as much duration and lift as some others for sure, but in this case i feel what they have is hurting. I am sure the CAT cams have has aided my power output by around 30BHP, on Staceys i think it's the other way around. It's odd how components react and act in builds, one component different can have a huge effect it seems. Staceys takes almost no timing which means it heats up too soon, hopfully this is cam related.

    It will feel fast for sure, once it's proved itself some more tuning can take place. Another issue as I see it, is most tuning is done in the US where they seem to have exagerated results on the rollers. they also do not think twice in running turbos well out of their efficiency range to make power, this then gives a false hope to people as to what to expect from a setup, and so far 9/10 it's unachieveable for the UK based tuner due to hardware limits. It seems the US guys change the laws of physics somehow

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    They are freakish over there.
    To us your 340hp out of an eliminator is amazing. They will probably think somethings wrong lol.
    When they refer to whp i basically just tell myself thats their crank power, makes everything alot more believable

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    yep that seems to be the way it converts. Meh, they must have weaker more obese horses, hence needing more to slow down the acceleration rate to measure hp

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    Quote Originally Posted by StaceyS3 View Post
    Its been a rediculously bumpy road and still not over

    Big thanks to bill with this as I think anything and everything that could possibly go wrong has done

    Some have been my fault, some other peoples and other things jusy completely bad luck and unforeseen.....live and learn... made some choices that would be quite different with what is known now like cams and extra clearance bearings which was a very bad choice

    Am now near the end of the 3rd train on my route accross country to pick tye car up and really cant wait but am scared of breaking it....confidence will come with time, but it will be one hell of an adrenaline rush when I open it up after not driving it for around 5 months with only the ocassional drive of a ka lol :D
    Seems like it's been a bit of a rough year for big turbo s3's mate, I haven't even posted about mine it's been doing my head in so much lol.


    I'd say more of a rally stage than just a bumpy road too but atleast the future looks bright for your beast of a car
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  16. #1815
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    Quote Originally Posted by superkarl View Post
    They are freakish over there.
    To us your 340hp out of an eliminator is amazing. They will probably think somethings wrong lol.
    When they refer to whp i basically just tell myself thats their crank power, makes everything alot more believable
    the usa dyno figurs and testing beggar belief
    many have such quick runs and wheelspin and convince themselves thats the real power figure atw,, also dynojet dynos seem the most common one... their reputation for high atw figures is well known.

    also, 30+psi boost levels seem the norm. what i have seen from the 2 gtx turbos i've done these past 2 weeks, is they do look like they will respond to higher boost BUT when you drive these to high boost on early onset (presuming you dont experience surge, which stacys did) they will heat up cyl temps high and when the revs climb the motor just rips timing back out, egts climb etc. Rolling in the boost seemed to keep the motor happier.. but these high boosts also bring high egts inevitably. most usa bt cars are golfs and they dont have egt measurement and i believe ignorence is bliss for them... eak!
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    How goes the car dude?

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    I was just thinking this on the way in this morning. Please tell me it's awesome...
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    He is probably on the hunt for new underwear its that awesome
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    I heard he can't afford to fuel it!
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  21. #1820
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    Fuel cost are just staggering when you use it every day in a 500 bhp S3

    New underwear is needed when you first drive it then you want more power
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  22. #1821
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    he has started a new job Tuesday this week, hence needing it back before then and me getting it ready sunday to collect.
    maybe tinterweb access and Mrs Stacey have him chained up somewhere, away from car and web..
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  23. #1822
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    Well over due update (which will be short as at work on new job)

    Was really good to catch up with bill and tuffty after the 5 hour journey there (wish could have stayed longer but other half was chewing my ear off)

    It felt really good but strange to be reunited with the car, I took it easy whilst it warmed up and was pretty cautious for the first few miles but did have to give it a bit down the slip road through the gears up to around 4.5-5k and it pulled nice and strong with a lot of torque and was very smooth

    Then next slip road thought id brave it and give it a proper run through the gears taking it to a bit over 7k and fuk me it becomes a different car above 5k it just flew and before I knew it I was joining the motorway well up into 3 figures and didnt really know how id got there so quick lol

    Theres quite a few issues that I have got to resolve on the car some niggly bits and others are a bit more envolved liked changing the cams for either standard or IECVA2'S?? As bill suspects this is why am getting high timing pull so a different grind is the way forward

    All in all am chuffed but know theres a lot more improving to be done with potentially a lot more on tap to be unlocked its just wether can find the key

    Ps Bill have you put a speed limiter on it at all?
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    Forgot to also add fuels supprisingly not been to terrible with getting 215 miles to the first tank and am at 3/4's of my way through the second but have to admit I am calming down now on my commute as wont be able to keep up the fuel cost

    Think cruise control may well be another mod in the near future

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    This is your daily car! Nice.
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  26. #1825
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    I don't use much more fuel in bumble than I do in my other s3 when driving to work and back, infact on a motorway I'd be inclined to say big turbo MAY be more economical. That all changes when your giving it some though and you can almost see the fuel gauge going down lol.

    Glad to hear your enjoying the motor mate after all the hard work that's went into it.
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    How does the new spec engine sound? Much different?
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  28. #1827
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    Well overdue Update as have been far to distant as of late with plenty of decorating, new job, other work and a partner that has needed time for the dust to settle where a certain hatchback is concerned lol

    Few pics borrowed from Bills facebook page





    Although the graphs show this and its old setup are pretty much nearly the same in the lower rev range its a completely different story actually driving it, the higher comp, cc, stroke and of coarse manifolds etc totally transformed the car off boost and the lower end of the range, it feel like its got so much more torque and just pulls be it round town or on the motorway



    The car is still fecking awesome and going on strong, its had a couple of issues but nothing thats not to be expected with the heat cycles and running of a new build

    As reply to the econimical side of things it can be really good, probably better than ever if you drive REALLY sensibly, i did so as a trial run which was a 95 mile round trip to an interview with sainsburys just cruising between 70-80, and to my surprise i only consumed just under a quarter of a tank with the dis saying 55mpg (i know its lying as can only be calibrated up to 750cc injectors and im running 1000's)

    So far fuel wise have had this many mile to litres but next on should be more as have driven sensibly for part of the tank

    215 miles 50 litres
    225 miles 55 litres
    228 miles 58 litres

    The car itself is going well and has provided a whole new level of excitment the last couple of days as has been wet and has brought back some the excitement that i have missed since going 4wd......breaking traction and having to correct and actually fight the car a bit whilst accelerating in 2nd and 3rd :D

    I can also confirm that the car hasn't got any kind of limiter as maybe previously thought and does go OFF THE CLOCK...i managed to find a terrible quality video of another car with simular spec doing the same thing but not sure if i can upload it lol

    For some reason the works computer won't display photobucket so will have to update some of the photos via mobile

    Now all the good bits are out of the way i will start on the more unhappy parts

    The brakes are driving me mental with squeal...ive added anti squeal shims now which have improved things but theres plenty of squeal still present so am probably going to put some 2nd hand oems in that i have got knocking about in for now and save the ds3000's for track

    The battery as some of you may know decided to swell like a ballon at Bills and nearly self combust, i have been in contact with JJC who it was purchased from and they requested i send the battery back to the manufacturer for analysis
    They after having the battery 3 weeks deemed that the battery isn't covered by warrenty which being only 6 months old at the time of failure find disgusting and they don't seem willing to budge at all so will try other routes with this battle now





    When out for a spirited drive one day as i slowed up to a round about it was very clear something was wrong as there was a cloud of steam coming out from the bonnet, once pulled over i was surprised to find that the turbo coolant return hardpipe hosetail had broken off where it joins to the rubber oem pipe, this seems to be a manufacturing failure as looks like is originally pressed onto the boss that you weld to the pipe, anyways have now pushed the pipe over the boss and clamped there which is holding up fine





    The downpipe also appeared to be fouling but only when its really hot, it was quite clear that this is down to it expanding when hot as once under there was quite clear had been rubbing on the prop doughnut which supprissingly when cold had a reasonable amount of clearance
    I have to say that now i have looked at it more closely underneath i cant believe how little clearance there is in there and give Bill his dues on the 4' part of the downpipe there isn't either enough room to get a finger each side of it





    I'm currently working on a double gauge pod for the steering column to house my stack boost gauge and new stack il pressure gauge, then eventually i'll be getting an afr gauge in the A piller mount

    Think i've included everything in the essay

    Ps Sam it sounds lovely, it is louder exhaust and induction but i was previously running a resonated milltek, the induction is a lot louder i suppose due to more airflow bigger tip and being top mount
    Last edited by StaceyS3; 15th September 2013 at 10:08.
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  29. #1828
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    I bet it's a right monster. Gagging to get mine built but it's going to take a while. Hoping I can get Bill to remote map it.

    Awesome to hear it sounds good I can't wait to hear mine spool up for the first time with the bigger turbo. Mine's going to be running with a non-res Milltek first time around though which probably won't help matters.

    What did you do in terms of heat shielding? I'm going to get some of the aluminium sheeting like you've got most likely. That and a lot of fire sleeve.
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  30. #1829
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    Bet yours will sound even better mate with the anti surge housing

    I made a aluminium sheet heatshield that ran accross the back of the head where the oem one usually bolts to, have also notice bill has put some heatshielding down between the master cylinder and dp as well as around the gear cables as the tial outlet is around there

    Will grab you some pics if iremeber when im next tinkering around with it
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  31. #1830
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    G12 makes a right mess doesn't it (its also flammable...)

    Tactical dent on the DP then?

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  32. #1831
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    Bloody hell never learn something new every day! Never knew G12 was flamible but suppose is got an alcohol content to have the higher boil and freezing point?

    Downpipe did suffer my blow torch and a mild meeting with hammer and drift
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    I've heard the anti surge housings do change the sound a little. Cool yeah, more pics around that area would be handy, ta.

    Seems a shame to batter the downpipe but needs must I guess. I wonder how the TSR one will be fitment wise
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  34. #1833
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    Quote Originally Posted by StaceyS3 View Post
    Bloody hell never learn something new every day! Never knew G12 was flamible but suppose is got an alcohol content to have the higher boil and freezing point?

    Downpipe did suffer my blow torch and a mild meeting with hammer and drift
    Yeah... I found it out the hard way when the coolant pipe burst on Powerstations dyno... sprayed G12 all over the very red and very hot DP and caught fire... was a bugger to put out too... had to spray water on it in the end... scary much

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  35. #1834
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    Bloody hell you would never have though it really being a hazard, especially when most panic about wmi

    I have got a mini fire extinguisher in the glove box now and another in the boot

    Dont suppose you would happen to know about scaling the maf with the liquid as im pretty sure im running more than low to mid 200's g/s readings lol

    Im pretty sure bill done james so may have the figure but assume its directly proportional to the int internal csa of the housing? Possibly minus sensor area?
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  36. #1835
    RIP S3dave

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    liqui = waste of time on that maf
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  37. #1836
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    Lol i always have a look as find it a good way to measure gains monitor performance which even uncalibrated it still can be used as a figure to compare, it just has a % conversion and wasnt sure if you had a figure may use during mapping?

    Update

    Ive got a another new job hopefully starting soon working at sainsburys that is a 45 mile commute each way

    Last night on the way home from the interview I had an annoying 4x4 keep sitting up my arse so planted it out of a roundabout round a left hand bend lighting up the wheels in second then into third and heard a pop that sounded like nls but turned out to be a right front blow out.....fecking arse

    So there I was changing two wheels in my best shoes suit and tie in the dark (space saver onto the rear and then the rear good wheel onto tge front as the space saver doesn't clear my 4 pots)

    Any hows after a long slow drive home ive made the decision a derv is now needed as the S3 will cost me a fortune to keep running.....any suggestions???
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  38. #1837
    <tuffty/>'s Avatar
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    Polo 1.4tdi...

    All BT builds need a second car imo...

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  39. #1838
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    Does S3 interior fit in a mk4 golf
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  40. #1839
    RIP S3dave

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    Quote Originally Posted by StaceyS3 View Post
    Lol i always have a look as find it a good way to measure gains monitor performance which even uncalibrated it still can be used as a figure to compare, it just has a % conversion and wasnt sure if you had a figure may use during mapping?
    I dont use maf figures for mapping... its just a sensor which determins a load on a map... Its actual number is irrelevant to me dude. The table values are what I adjust for the load sites. I guess you could approximate the std s3 maf CSA up to the RS4 one... Its not something I do when mapping tho.
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  41. #1840
    "Stick a V8 in it!"

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    If MLHFM is scaled properly, vagcom maxes out around 300g/sec anyway due to a limitation of the diagnostic protocol so getting meaningful data from it on big power cars becomes impossible anyway. You can use ME7Logger to get the real info, but i doubt the liquid is using anything other than the standard diagnostic protocols, same as vagcom.

    If MLHFM is not scaled, and still uses the default S3 values, then you can figure out the conversion factor and apply it yourself to the readings produced, its a fairly linear conversion between the internal MAF tube areas.

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