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Thread: Stacey's Belated Yo Yo Build Thread

  1. #1721
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    Is the metal bearing cage pricey? I notice stacey mentions £500 for an uprated cage, must be a typo surely.

    regardless of the mishaps, the spool looks nice on those graphs, i cant see the rpm, but looks good.

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  3. #1722
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    Quote Originally Posted by badger5 View Post
    Its a sh1t sandwich all round. Hopefully ATP will replace it.. There is no reason for it to have gone so noisy so soon. Less than 4 hours engine run time. It has oil, water.... and looks as new on its CHRA

    Note for folks.... GT garretts come with plastic bearing cages.. yes plastic.. and they are known to melt and distort, causing bearing failures. Had the very same myself on my hybrid gt35.. Caught it in time, and had Owen Developments replace its shyte garrett bearing pack with their own metal caged version. Given how hot 1.8t engines run, this would be a good upgrade for anyone considering garrett GT.
    Hopefully ATP will replace it. If they do, what's the chances of them fitting metal cages?
    If they don't, is it worth Stacey sending it off to get the plastic cages replaced before fitting again?

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  4. #1723
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    Garrett do not supply spares. they do an exchange programme on chra

    std garretts come with plastic cages
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  5. #1724
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    Quote Originally Posted by superkarl View Post
    Is the metal bearing cage pricey? I notice stacey mentions £500 for an uprated cage, must be a typo surely.

    regardless of the mishaps, the spool looks nice on those graphs, i cant see the rpm, but looks good.
    My cost price for getting a metal cage bearing fitted, which includes strip down, removal of old bearing and fitting of new, rebalancing, is £420-£450 with Owens.
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  6. #1725
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    Opinions Guys?

    Like Bill said **** sandwich all round!

    Obviously a huge part of me feels it should be replaced FOC and just send it back to ATP but whilst i know its over a year old and most turbo suppliers will blame the usual causes regardless (oil cantamination/starvation) to get out of it

    If ATP deem it a component failure it will be replaced FOC and will get a new turbo, if they dont i have to pay $7xx for a exchange core and over £100 in shipping to end up with a brand new turbo but still the usual plastic cage?

    Could just send it to Owens for the metal bearing upgrade which i'd really quite like for piece of mind but if they find any other damage on the shaft from the bearings spinning or on either wheel then i need an exchange core which iirc is £650+vat and don't think i'll stand a hope in hell at a warrenty claim with ATP once has been apart?

    Dan has very kindly offered to step in and help out by replacing the bearings with an aftermarket one at cost price as he hasn't personally used or tested them but these bearings have ceramic balls with a plastic cage

    I'm taking a risk which ever option i go for but a big part of me feels like fighting it and kicking up a fuss but even though i have found ATP's customer service has been very good with me in the past am i just barking up the wrong tree?

    What would you do??
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  7. #1726
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    i wouldnt open it up until atp has seen it. that would be my first port of call, because really you should have no trouble with warranty replacement, and postage cost is better than chra cost.

    Its just that once its sorted, you then have the decision to try again with the plastic cage, or upgrade.
    I cant find much on plastic bearing cage failures, is it really that common?

  8. #1727
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    If I was you Stace I'd try to send it back first. If that fails then its time to investigate the other options.
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  9. #1728
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    Think i'll prob try my luck with ATP but its officially out of the warrenty period anyways due to being puchased Jan 2012

    Have just found this and have messaged them about they're bearings as they contain ceramic balls and metal cages
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  10. #1729
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    found this? missing link ?
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  11. #1730
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    Quote Originally Posted by superkarl View Post
    I cant find much on plastic bearing cage failures, is it really that common?
    In motorsport, yes.. which is why the likes of Owens who I use, strongly advise their use else they will fail.. Not might, will fail from the heat. 1.8t environment is uber hot.. sat at back of motor, between bulkhead, tight to everything... and no cooling air passing by.. Crank them up, inevitable heat.. and no where to go.

    I believe you can order the GT garrett with the metal cages and potentially ceramic ball races also.... I know when I ordered a T3T4/57trim a few years ago I added roller bearing chra to the spec and it was metal caged bearing race.. even on an old T series turbo.

    Thermo plastic (no matter its ceramic content, be it peek or whatever) is still Thermo_Plastic.. Formed by heat and injection moulding.
    900+deg only mm away from the CHRA, heat conducting from the turbine and shaft.... Its one hell of an environment to work in.. EAK!
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  12. #1731
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    Quote Originally Posted by badger5 View Post
    found this? missing link ?
    Sorry link is here

    http://www.facebook.com/pages/Per4ma...%2Fsearch&_rdr
    Last edited by <tuffty/>; 18th July 2013 at 20:22.
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  13. #1732
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    Quote Originally Posted by badger5 View Post
    My cost price for getting a metal cage bearing fitted, which includes strip down, removal of old bearing and fitting of new, rebalancing, is £420-£450 with Owens.
    Quote Originally Posted by StaceyS3 View Post
    Be interested to see what you get back.... this is quite a tell...
    1044708_334619036670677_193753865_n.jpg

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  14. #1733
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    Snap./. lmao..

    great minds dude
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    New silicone nitride ball bearing packs available | Turbocare

    just found this.... on a forum........ turbo bearings [Archive] - SnoWest Snowmobile Forum no idea of validity but................

    02-26-2010, 11:30 AM
    I pulled this off another board, could be just internet crap.


    ""I work at Garrett Turbos, now called Honeywell Turbo Technologies which there so proud of. When Cliff Garrett Owned Garrett He used to brown bag his lunch everyday and cared for a quality Product. If he knew what Honeywell has done now he would turn over in his grave. Honeywell bought Garrett In 1998 or 1999. After this they opened up a turbo testing lab in shanghai China and quickly moved there turbo overhaul to Mexicali Mexico, quickly after Garrett overhaul went belly-up. So they moved there whole production to Mexicali Mexico, as if that first failure was not a sign.

    Garrett Turbos made a quality product for a fair price. A turbo is a precision instrument. Garrett turbos was part of Garrett Air Research (on 190th st. In Torrance ca.) Where they have a huge facility designing turbine engines, and so on. Most of the senior technicians in our main turbo facility (Lomita Blvd Torrance ca) came from our air research. If you’re building jet engines a turbo is not all that difficult. Well Cliff Garrett dies. At that time ALL production of Garrett Turbos was at Lomita Torrance ca. Also all engineering and research was there as well. After we were bought and production was sent to Mexico to save costs. Our production numbers doubled. And cost was cut in half our failure rate tripled. Well who cares Honeywell is making money and lots of it. Turbos are considered Honeywell’s golden egg. They feel that turbos are going to take over big. Which it already has in the diesel market. We make ford diesel turbos, daf, Chevrolet, some Audi, vw, fiat, Perkins. Millions of turbos. And there now all coming from china and Mexico. Well up until lately the company figured if the product was designed in the US and assembled in Mexico we would be ok. Well to further there profit and **** the customer once again....the LAST of what makes turbo American leaves in January 2011. We will close the doors to the Torrance Lab. In Torrance we did all our racing turbos (wrc stuff, Audi racing etc..) then in the garret garage we did the turbos you people buy for your Subaru’s. Actually I take that back. They take turbos that were made on a production line somewhere else in the world, and change a couple of parts on a bench in Torrance (wheels, housing..etc) and send it to you the customer saying it was made in the us.....no it was not it was just repackaged and altered a little. Well as of Jan 2011 all your turbos will be made in Mexico or china or Czech Republic. This is the last Garrett facility in the United States.

    We have huge law suits pending due to turbo failures. GM is probably going to leave us.... ford has already sued us. Caterpillar has one of the largest recalls in garret history in the process. Our name is becoming ****. The last few VERY smart guys left in the company are being fired to save costs, but see our profit is already good.....they just want more. Please don’t spend 1500$ on a gt35r. Now that it’s costing Honeywell less to build turbos do you think you will see a smaller bill when you order there product? NO!. They are going to charge you even more for even less. There are countless procedures that are being terminated everyday that made our turbos THE BEST. They keep cutting corner after corner. Did you know that we shave metal off our turbine and compressor housings until they are at the EXTREME minimum needed to contain in the event of failure they are shaving every nickel off the cost of a turbo. Did you know that 2000$ gt40 you buy is all mark up. I won’t dare say the actual cost to the company in fear of a lawsuit but lets just say your sales tax is more then the production cost.

    Do not buy these turbos. BorgWarner and mitsu are trying there best to compete with us making a quality product. Honeywell is using its big name to back junky turbos Like Toyota is starting to do. I guarantee in the next 8 months you will see a huge decline in quality. All designing and production is in CHINA AND MEXICO. Honeywell is taking back all there benefits they used to supply us with as employees. That way when they lay us off its as cheap as possible. Instead of saying "Well after we take a hit laying those people off we will make tons" they are just taking back all there benefits so they walk away clean and clear. We used to get a severance package. Which they just took away. One of the head engineers involved in the t3 project. (Designing the first t3) he is still with our company. he was supposed to get 44 weeks of pay if he ever got layed off (30 days and 1 week for every year with the company. 40 years with the company)Due to the new Honeywell rules he gets only 16 weeks pay they stole all that pack after promising it to him for 40 years. My fingers and about to fall off typing all this and I am heated so I don’t care about grammar I’m concerned about you people not supporting a Nazi company. Take your business elsewhere. Somewhere where you will get what your money pays for. Have a nice day and don’t forget if you hear the name HTT Honeywell Turbo Technologies Stay away

    (They still use the garrett stamp on the turbos)""
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  16. #1735
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    Best let Dan know ;P

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  18. #1737
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    I found that above extract today on a gtr owners club thread.

  19. #1738
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    Maybe I should get mine done before I fit it then? My GTX has already done 4,000km on a Golf R but I guess it can't harm?

    Those dudes on Facebook you linked are in Perth over here. Handy.
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  20. #1739
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    Cheers for the links guys theyre an interesting read

    Will have a chat with Dan in a bit about the metal/ceramic bearing option followed by some sort of contact with the companies and will go from there....
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  21. #1740
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    Instead of shipping it back to the supplier, maybe they would be willing to let a reputable company in the UK check the turbo and give them their feedback. Then if it needs a new chra they could send one over. Worth a try
    If they do replace it under warranty, I would still get the bearing changed out on the new turbo. Then you have piece of mind that the internals are all new and up to the job.

  22. #1741
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    My K04 doesn't have these kinds of problems
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  23. #1742
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scullies View Post
    Instead of shipping it back to the supplier, maybe they would be willing to let a reputable company in the UK check the turbo and give them their feedback. Then if it needs a new chra they could send one over. Worth a try
    If they do replace it under warranty, I would still get the bearing changed out on the new turbo. Then you have piece of mind that the internals are all new and up to the job.
    I was hoping ATP would let another company in the UK do this but they have insisted that it has to go back to them, which ever way it turns with them it will be a new CHRA just depends whos wallet its coming out of?

    Am going to be enquiring about the ceramic and metal bearings and will go from there
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  24. #1743
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    Quote Originally Posted by Westy View Post
    My K04 doesn't have these kinds of problems
    Haha funny boy, do sometimes wish had stayed K04

    We all seem to have problems, some with brand new turbos that **** the bed and others that want to burn theyre cars after an egt bung coming out
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  25. #1744
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    Quote Originally Posted by Westy View Post
    My K04 doesn't have these kinds of problems


    Because Big Turbo....

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  26. #1745
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    Quote Originally Posted by StaceyS3 View Post
    Haha funny boy, do sometimes wish had stayed K04

    We all seem to have problems, some with brand new turbos that **** the bed and others that want to burn theyre cars after an egt bung coming out
    just teething problems, it's only because you have it all documented that it seems like it all goes wrong, Trust me all of these big builds have their own selection of issues, Tuffty's and mine included ( ok i'm not strickly BT But...) Keep on at them, maybe if they are going to replace chra, you can pay the extra to get a decent bearing pack in it

  27. #1746
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    Haha ^awesome^

  28. #1747
    RIP S3dave

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    Quote Originally Posted by StaceyS3 View Post
    ...and others that want to burn theyre cars after an egt bung coming out

    LMAO

    touche
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  29. #1748
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    Quote Originally Posted by Byzan Pics View Post
    just teething problems, it's only because you have it all documented that it seems like it all goes wrong, Trust me all of these big builds have their own selection of issues, Tuffty's and mine included ( ok i'm not strickly BT But...) Keep on at them, maybe if they are going to replace chra, you can pay the extra to get a decent bearing pack in it
    Yeah always going to find issues with something thats just been built especially with used parts that are unknown to me....just really wasnt expecting a brand new unit to fail especially when its supposed to be a top of the line turbo

    Really wish I could of got the car to a running state and sorted all the teething issues like the last build before dropping it in bills lap, but wasnt possible without the turbo lines

    Found another link for some bearing bits

    http://www.turbodynamic.net/content/...=service%20kit

    Will hopefully be disscussing options with dan tommorrow, think I may just try and switch the bearings, main thing I need to find out if theres scores in the shaft or any other damage? if it is the case would it be possible to reasemble it to send for an exchange chra?

    Sort of car related....well the man cave actually but as its where bits will be worked on in future thought id chuck it up

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    Also made a little workbench which has now got a vice on there which will be a lot easier than trying to stand on the vice to hold it like I used to in the flat carpark lol

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  30. #1749
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    My personal view on your turbo is this... if the turbine and comp wheel look untouched (there was no binding or scraping when spinning the unit that I saw/heard) and ATP cannot commit to a straight replacement then I would just get the bearing swapped and be done with it... you would have to consider doing the same on any new unit anyway so why not cut out the expense and time of all this and get to the end game of fitting a decent metal caged bearing and be done...

    Not inspected the unit fully myself (think its currently boxed up) but if the wheels haven't touched the housings at all (simply removing the housings will say for sure) then I just think a straight bearing swap and rebalance will get it back up to spec... and at less cost and time than anything else

    Just my tuppence

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  31. #1750
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    Quote Originally Posted by ;1926966
    My personal view on your turbo is this... if the turbine and comp wheel look untouched (there was no binding or scraping when spinning the unit that I saw/heard) and ATP cannot commit to a straight replacement then I would just get the bearing swapped and be done with it... you would have to consider doing the same on any new unit anyway so why not cut out the expense and time of all this and get to the end game of fitting a decent metal caged bearing and be done...

    Not inspected the unit fully myself (think its currently boxed up) but if the wheels haven't touched the housings at all (simply removing the housings will say for sure) then I just think a straight bearing swap and rebalance will get it back up to spec... and at less cost and time than anything else

    Just my tuppence

    <tuffty/>
    Am definately thinking along this riute now and should hopefully be trying something with dan if we can get hold of some decent bearings

    The more and more I think about it and read up its looking less and less likely that ATP will support in any way or form, apart from taking it apart and offering a new exchange core for the standard core exchange price which I will do if its anything more than bearings.....just need to know wether it can be reasembled after without warrenty tags or something of that nature disturbed
    Power & Torque 335bhp 285ftlb
    0-60 4.64 1/4 mile 13.02
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  32. #1751
    <tuffty/>'s Avatar
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    If you want warranty etc then tbh it may be just worth speaking to Owens as they are the UK dealer for Garrett and this is where Bill gets his done... I am sure Dan could prob sort something a little cheaper but Owens mod is race proven at least and available now...

    <tuffty/>
    Silver 2001 AMK S3. Silver alcantara interior... now with added powarrrrrrrr, torques. VAGCOM + KII-USB. >> My build thread...

  33. #1752
    RIP S3dave

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    Comparisons of spool between 1781cc GT30 and 2008cc GTX30 and K26 from before...
    (remember the GTX30 is'nt remotely finished in terms of mapping)

    As requested by Stacey
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  34. #1753
    StaceyS3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by badger5 View Post
    Comparisons of spool between 1781cc GT30 and 2008cc GTX30 and K26 from before...
    (remember the GTX30 is'nt remotely finished in terms of mapping)

    As requested by Stacey
    Cheers Bill

    Am extremely shocked that in its current unfinished state that the bhp and torque pretty much follow my old setup low down which is really comforting to know and its something i can really compare it to

    Admitedly the old setup was 8.5:1 cr and 1825cc compared to 9.5:1(ish) cr and 2008cc but am really pleased that although can see the lag difference between the 2 turbos the performance of the engine makes up for it and is a very simular output at the lower rev range

    Also my other fears of the bigger GTX series being deemed as laggy and fairly unresponsive is not any more as that seems pretty good compared to the gt30's.

    I know not comparing apples to apples but had feared that the gtx paired with a .82 ar housing was going to be pretty sluggish after hearing peoples reviews on vortex who really dont seem that fond of the gtx30?

    As Bill said theres more to come but i wanted to be able to make a comparison to the k26 to get an idea of how it will be like and to possibly aid a decision
    Power & Torque 335bhp 285ftlb
    0-60 4.64 1/4 mile 13.02
    My GTX3071r Build Thread
    http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/a3-s3-f...ld-thread.html

  35. #1754
    StaceyS3's Avatar
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    Cant wait to get it back now and enjoy it

    My dad dropped my AD08's off the other day and looking at them reminded me that I need to sort out my team dynamics alloys as they seem to have got a bit beaten up in the move and all now need a respray

    Am now unsure of the colour as they're currently artic white but am even contemplating anthracite or black, they will be used for summer and track at the mo but plan on eventually using these most of the year round and selling the 19's followed by aquiring some 17's for track once the yokos are toast.....whats your guys thoughts?

    Is anyone able to do a couple of photoshopped pics with white td's on a black s3 as really couldn't find much on google?

    Just a couple of pics of the sticky rubber I can't wait to abuse and the alloys



    Power & Torque 335bhp 285ftlb
    0-60 4.64 1/4 mile 13.02
    My GTX3071r Build Thread
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  36. #1755
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    come fly with me

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    Love it to be anthraicte!
    <Jay A3 build thread>



    241bhp K03s - R Tech

  37. #1756
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    Get the anthracite kit off eBay that I used in my 16's it's cheap and easy to get a good finish

    Item number 261127353148 on the bay and only 13.99 and its enough to do all 4 with some left over :D
    Last edited by basil brush; 30th July 2013 at 10:02.
    superkarl likes this.
    1999 Silver 8L A3 1.8t sport (AGU) currently undergoing rolling modification
    pipercross panel , bosch super 4's , poly bushed front end , yellow dogbone , self refurbed 16" speedlines , ambient lighting.............TBC
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  38. #1757
    RIP S3dave

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    was that anthracite a base + lacquer system?
    **http://www.facebook.com/Badger5Ltd**

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  39. #1758
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    Quote Originally Posted by badger5 View Post
    was that anthracite a base + lacquer system?
    sure was bill , satin base so easy to get right and a clear uv stable lacquer that's very easy to work with providing its warm
    baz
    1999 Silver 8L A3 1.8t sport (AGU) currently undergoing rolling modification
    pipercross panel , bosch super 4's , poly bushed front end , yellow dogbone , self refurbed 16" speedlines , ambient lighting.............TBC
    http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/a3-s3-f...ts-thread.html

  40. #1759
    StaceyS3's Avatar
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    Anthracite it is then

    I also need to fill a gouge in one of the alloy spokes as when tidying the garage I managed to knock the stack over and one fell into the workbench :facepalm:

    Anyone reconmend a filler?
    Power & Torque 335bhp 285ftlb
    0-60 4.64 1/4 mile 13.02
    My GTX3071r Build Thread
    http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/a3-s3-f...ld-thread.html

  41. #1760
    1st Gear

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    Same company does an alloy repair putty I'll get the number up in a minute
    1999 Silver 8L A3 1.8t sport (AGU) currently undergoing rolling modification
    pipercross panel , bosch super 4's , poly bushed front end , yellow dogbone , self refurbed 16" speedlines , ambient lighting.............TBC
    http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/a3-s3-f...ts-thread.html

 

 

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