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Thread: Hybrid Turbo K04

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by sambryant View Post
    Lol welly. I only just noticed that
    You and me both. hybid indeed!

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    Iv been running a stage 3 hybrid on 1 of my s3s for about 2 years nailing the life out of it and never and the. rods. take it all day easy so why rods ?

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    Is it a k04 conversion from a k03 off a 150 thing or something like

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    Quote Originally Posted by S3pallas View Post
    Is it a k04 conversion from a k03 off a 150 thing or something like
    The 150 engines are as strong as the 210/225 engines. They both have forged cranks, they both have the same pistons, and the the same 20mm wrist pins.

    Carry on nailing the life out of it - time will get you eventually. It's not if, but when.

    (Welly breaks out customary image)



    Interesting article here: Tech: Connecting Rod Failure — IE AutoBlog
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    So what's the rods. off here a k04 hybrid

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    Quote Originally Posted by S3pallas View Post
    So what's the rods. off here a k04 hybrid
    That was done at K04 Stage 1. As have a few now.
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    Iv got 2 mates running stock internals for over 7 yeah running 330 bhp so if time will tell am sure 7 years plenty

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    Quote Originally Posted by S3pallas View Post
    Is it a k04 conversion from a k03 off a 150 thing or something like
    A lot will depend very much on the map and what figures you are producing as a result. This topic has been discussed at length and something that I have been considering. I don't believe that there is any set figure on when rods may fail but, as standard OEM component, are very durable and likely to be up to the task as long as users are sensible.

    What figures are you producing and was it a custom map?

    I have read that many users on here, use generic Revo maps which can be aggressive. Obvious increased psi, lb torque, temperatures and resulting bhp will all put added duress on engine parts. When you reach higher levels builds using powerful hybrid/big turbos, more bespoke customisation will be become necessary. It's more about effective system management or prevention, through upgrade of parts.

    My personal experience is that one size does not fit all. On my recent hybrid install, we have been playing with the customisation for about a week to help manage the continued integrity of the standard rods integrity and perhaps this is something that might have occured in your case.

    There are far more experienced people on here to provide their opinion and this is purely based on my experience with my build.

    Essentially, there is no magic formula on this and is not to say that my car, like yours, will not fail this week or the next. But the likelyhood is, if you fly too close to the sun, you are more than likely to get burnt.

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    But I guess anything can happen best be safe than sorry

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    Quote Originally Posted by S3pallas View Post
    Iv got 2 mates running stock internals for over 7 yeah running 330 bhp so if time will tell am sure 7 years plenty
    Mental note for me: Don't bother answering your questions again - waste of my time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by S3pallas View Post
    But I guess anything can happen best be safe than sorry
    Exactly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Welly View Post
    Mental note for me: Don't bother answering your questions again - waste of my time.
    LMAO!

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    Lets not make yet another thread descend into another rods debate please... there are plenty of threads and info covering the whys and wherefores of rods...

    Any such discussion will be removed

    <tuffty/>
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    Quote Originally Posted by <tuffty/> View Post
    Lets not make yet another thread descend into another rods debate please... there are plenty of threads and info covering the whys and wherefores of rods...

    Any such discussion will be removed

    <tuffty/>
    I completely agree, hence my previous reply.
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    Quote Originally Posted by S3pallas View Post
    Iv got 2 mates running stock internals for over 7 yeah running 330 bhp so if time will tell am sure 7 years plenty
    you are simply riding your luck.
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    Quote Originally Posted by S3pallas View Post
    But I guess anything can happen best be safe than sorry
    so true.. so very true
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    Quote Originally Posted by Welly View Post
    Mental note for me: Don't bother answering your questions again - waste of my time.
    ignorance is bliss lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Welly View Post
    Mental note for me: Don't bother answering your questions again - waste of my time.

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    Then never do them.

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    This thread got me thinking about the variety of mods, maps and power being delivered by the 1.8T engine...im wondering has anyone started a thread for the users of the forum to post their current bhp/ torque delivery with supporting dyno readings?

    I would be an opportunity for some to show their hand and might spring some surprises but i wouldn't want it to descend into cock fight.

    Thoughts?

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  22. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prawn View Post
    All I can say is that you REALLY need an XS power/relentless manifold on there with a hybrid, the gains to be had are simply insane.
    You guys speak so poorly of the stock, OEM manifold on your cars now. I don't understand that; and I don't agree. Your "restrictive" manifolds can support well north of 350bhp. I have seen it with my own eyes. The power is there, the EGTs are well within spec. It's the turbo you should focus on, not the manifold.

    Quote Originally Posted by beachbuggy View Post
    All this said {the 2283} is still over kill for the humble k04. Problems with surge and small exhaust housings make it a little to powerful. Yes 344bhp can be achieved but this was a one off, a practical 310-320bhp in my opinion is about right for this turbo
    Well, I am nettled by "compressor surge" as much as anyone, but the turbo housing isn't at fault. The K04-02x castings have the same A/R as those on the 2283-based K04-064. That's right, the -02x may be a bit long in the tooth, but she's still got good bones. So issues of surge are more to do with an inappropriately aggressive boost curve. Keep the manifold pressure at a reasonable level, and aiflows remain laminar -- on a 320+ wheel torque power band. Here is a good side-by-side comparison of "overdoing it" and "reasonable".



    Now I'm not saying "Rev14" here is perfect -- as I said, compressor surge is a real bugaboo for these turbos. But it's a learning process and, so far, I like what I see.

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    Slappy: Surely the points already been proven when swapping from the Stock manifold to the XS unit gained Welly ~30hp with no other changes?

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  24. #103
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    I know Welly's history well. Yes. I watched his progress carefully. But I still net out here: the stocker is a very good manifold. Hehe. And I say this as a monger of my own aftermarket unit. And I spent 18 months developing the thing, motivated purely by what I've seen from you guys over there. But while slogging through R/D on my manifold I (thoroughly, thoroughly, thoroughly) tested the S3 unit. And over the course of that testing, that manifold keeps bearing up. It's a solid unit. So basically mine does it better in only one way: it sounds like a God of Thunder.

    But "gains"? Mfff. Here's your "restrictive" manifold kicking it old school:




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    doug... stock exhaust manifold remains a flow restriction..

    we did'nt dream up the bolt on power gains for same boost/flow when we ran wellys unit up.

    Dynojet figures atw just dont ever correlate to figures we see here.. whats seen as atw figures on dynojets in the us seem more like flywheel figures (at best) on dyno's such as mine.

    lots of wmi, lots of timing, very short dyno runs..... Load it up and its egt's are doomed.. and ex mani pressures climb big time.

    the tubular relentless thing for all its early faults (and it had many, lol) did flow well.

    looking fwd to seeing the few cars which folks are adding their mani's too, so more comparisons can be seen.

    I still stand by the stock k04 mani sux for flow.

    "kicking it old skool" on sustained loads... not flash quick as you like dyno pulls... egt's my friend.. not simple one off pulls, fully loaded... Its not different transatlantic.
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  26. #105
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    Bill

    That car is wired for EGTs. I learned the importance of that years ago -- reading your posts. His temps are fine. On the dyno. On the road. Any gear. Spartiati (the car owner) is a wonk for EGT management. And, try as I have, I can't persuade him to pull his OEM manifold.

    Anyway, I'm not trying to pick a fight. I'm sure better manifolds exist. In fact I am super, mega sure better ones exist. Hehe. But I've had to reassess the old reliable one in these cars. It works well -- and not just on happy, happy DynoJets!

  27. #106
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    I think it'd be interesting if you were able to carry out tests on a car over there Doug, a car that you know running well on a stock manifold, then fit a relentless manifold and dyno again to see the results.

    It's not just Bill that has found the stock manifold highly restrictive either, nick at Rtech has been mapping my car for the last week, and has been absolutely blown away by the flow capability of the manifold.

    He's mapped plenty of cars with the exact same turbo as mine before, but none have made the power levels mine has at the low boost it's running. Mine makes the same power at 14psi, as cars with the stock manifold make at 21psi, and this is the same turbo, same tuner, on the same dyno.

    We're yet to find out what it's capable of top end, as I've not got rods to allow me to turn the boost up, but I'm very confident that Wellys 340bhp results will be replicated
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  28. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by slappy_dunbar View Post
    Bill

    That car is wired for EGTs. I learned the importance of that years ago -- reading your posts. His temps are fine. On the dyno. On the road. Any gear. Spartiati (the car owner) is a wonk for EGT management. And, try as I have, I can't persuade him to pull his OEM manifold.

    Anyway, I'm not trying to pick a fight. I'm sure better manifolds exist. In fact I am super, mega sure better ones exist. Hehe. But I've had to reassess the old reliable one in these cars. It works well -- and not just on happy, happy DynoJets!
    I think when we have the cars in which are doing their upgrades to these hjigher flowing mani's we will see some decent data to judge whats working, relative to before on stock mani's

    I do remain convinced however that the stocker is not helping things, especially hybrids.. and the egt's I have seen here are way higher than what you report. These are egt's measured by factory probes on factory locations in the turbo, with me7 reporting the temps.. Where I know spartiarti's is a golf4 and all the egt is retrofitted.

    As a quick aside.. had a quick play with coilapcks on the lupo and tickled the timing a smidge.. 332bhp now.. from its 2283/k03 hybrid. (on your exhaust mani, K03 large bore one )

    speak soon.. more data to share soon I think.
    keep up the good work.
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  29. #108
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    Having now had experience of both in my vehicle and running a stage 3 hybrid, you can be rest assured that the xs power manifold is far less restrictive than the standard OEM. That is without doubt and question.

    My experience, with the stage 3 hybrid in situ, it has allowed for far greater bhp/lb torque levels from the hybrid at lower temperatures and psi levels.

    It looks far better in terms of manufacture with far more welds than the v1 and everybody involved in the install has been impressed with it. I'm hoping, long term, that it won't crack and be as tough as the OEM one...but that is, as far as i see it, the only unknown element that might make people think twice.

    The performance of the vehicle is unquestionably superior though, and delivers power far more responsively. Pre and post xs power mani is like day is to night...the contrast is that great.

    I'll post the dyno figures tomorrow when we place a revised custom map onto the car.

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  30. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by badger5 View Post
    I do remain convinced however that the stocker is not helping things, especially hybrids.. and the egt's I have seen here are way higher than what you report. These are egt's measured by factory probes on factory locations in the turbo, with me7 reporting the temps.. Where I know spartiarti's is a golf4 and all the egt is retrofitted.
    True. Spartiati has an aftermarket EGT setup. But the FrankenTT has the in-housing factory probe. I chose this late-model variant of TT precisely so I could mirror the S3s you guys run. But now that car has our aftermarket manifold so I can't offer contemporary EGT data.

    Quote Originally Posted by badger5 View Post
    As a quick aside.. had a quick play with coilapcks on the lupo and tickled the timing a smidge.. 332bhp now.. from its 2283/k03 hybrid. (on your exhaust mani, K03 large bore one )
    That's positively mind-boggling. But it definitely helps prove your point: a big, free-flowing manifold is good to have. What kind of timing are you running? Do you feel the 2.0 coil packs enabled you to advance more?

  31. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by slappy_dunbar View Post
    True. Spartiati has an aftermarket EGT setup. But the FrankenTT has the in-housing factory probe. I chose this late-model variant of TT precisely so I could mirror the S3s you guys run. But now that car has our aftermarket manifold so I can't offer contemporary EGT data.



    That's positively mind-boggling. But it definitely helps prove your point: a big, free-flowing manifold is good to have. What kind of timing are you running? Do you feel the 2.0 coil packs enabled you to advance more?
    Its on low 20's now.. with still no timing pull.. wmi is on.. 50/50 mix, sprayed post intercooler.
    tfsi coils which I tested I will post results of shortly..

    Its on stock coils, plugs, gaps for the 332bhp run.
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  32. #111
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    How is the new clutch??,sorry i got confused yesterday,though yours was another s3 in bristol,did'nt see the plate!,hope your car is goin wel for you!,mine will be ready monday,i just need to sort few more bits!

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    Quote Originally Posted by liquids3 View Post
    How is the new clutch??,sorry i got confused yesterday,though yours was another s3 in bristol,did'nt see the plate!,hope your car is goin wel for you!,mine will be ready monday,i just need to sort few more bits!
    No worries mate. I was suited and booted! Glad to hear that yours will be back on show, been meaning to pop in for a while.

    The car is running so well. Since bushes and new clutch is in, it drives like a different car and plants the power like never before. Really happy.

    I have gauges going in this week and debating the liquid one tuffty posted about a couple of years back from
    Race dynamics.

    Ming Blue S3, Stage 3 Hybrid Turbo, Custom Map, Bosch 480 injectors, Custom TIP, Forge FMIC, 3" Downpipe, 200 Cell Sport CAT, Full Stainless, XS Power Mani, 6 Paddle Clutch, Red silicone hoses, LCR Brembo's, Forge 007p, KW Suspension Kit, Green filter, THS Mounts, 11mm & 16mm spacers, H&R Anti-roll bars, RS6 18" alloys, Michelin PS3's, Red Dog Bone Mount, Neuspeed quickshift, Boost Gauge, Aero wipers, LCR splitter, Forge Tie-bars, LED bulbs, Armrest, Custom TT pedals.

  34. #113
    Jimgrim77's Avatar
    5th Gear

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    Nov 2011
    Location
    Clevedon, Near Bristol
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    Quote Originally Posted by liquids3 View Post
    How is the new clutch??,sorry i got confused yesterday,though yours was another s3 in bristol,did'nt see the plate!,hope your car is goin wel for you!,mine will be ready monday,i just need to sort few more bits!
    New clutch is ace mate, the car plants the power now!

    No worries about yesterday, I was suited and booted and don't blame you for not recognising. Funny that you ran your eye over it not knowing it was mine. It's nearly finished now!

    Glad to hear your nearly back on the road.

    Ming Blue S3, Stage 3 Hybrid Turbo, Custom Map, Bosch 480 injectors, Custom TIP, Forge FMIC, 3" Downpipe, 200 Cell Sport CAT, Full Stainless, XS Power Mani, 6 Paddle Clutch, Red silicone hoses, LCR Brembo's, Forge 007p, KW Suspension Kit, Green filter, THS Mounts, 11mm & 16mm spacers, H&R Anti-roll bars, RS6 18" alloys, Michelin PS3's, Red Dog Bone Mount, Neuspeed quickshift, Boost Gauge, Aero wipers, LCR splitter, Forge Tie-bars, LED bulbs, Armrest, Custom TT pedals.

  35. #114
    liquids3's Avatar
    5th Gear

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Bristol
    Posts
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimgrim77 View Post
    New clutch is ace mate, the car plants the power now!

    No worries about yesterday, I was suited and booted and don't blame you for not recognising. Funny that you ran your eye over it not knowing it was mine. It's nearly finished now!

    Glad to hear your nearly back on the road.
    Yea stupid me,i had been working on mine for a good 6 hours,bit stressed!,yea yours is lovely mate love the new wheels as wel!,glad the clutch is good mate!

    Audi S3- 1.8T Quattro
    Liquid Yellow
    Audi R8 Rims

    Its never finished!

 

 
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