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Thread: Clutch and flywheel options

  1. #1
    Westy's Avatar
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    Clutch and flywheel options

    Before you all shoot me down for not searching, I have

    My clutch started slipping last night as it appears it didn't like the extra torque from my last map tweak

    The car is about to hit 130K miles and I have no notification of a clutch change in the service book, although when I lift the gear nob gaiter I can see someone has previously accessed the locking hole to lock the gear linkages in place so I'm sure it has been done before.

    Audi recommend changing the flywheel at 100K miles and I'm sure this hasn't been done as I've had the car since 107K and before that it was owned by a mate who knows nothing of a clutch or flywheel change either.

    Now those of you who know the direction my car is heading at the moment will know that I'm chasing 300bhp and torque is likely to be around the 340+ mark. I'm after a clutch and flywheel combo that will take abuse from this sort of power day in day out.

    Most people seem to recommend the standard clutch but I'm not sure what it's rated too. I dont want to be changing the thing a year down the line and I'm not too fussed whether I get a heavier non standard clutch either.

    I'd like to hear peoples experiences with different clutches and flywheels before I make a decision.

    Thanks,
    Westy
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  3. #2
    <tuffty/>'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Westy View Post
    Before you all shoot me down for not searching, I have
    Clearly haven't... I have clutch info in my build thread... with actual pictures for those that can't read :D

    <tuffty/>
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    Quote Originally Posted by <tuffty/> View Post
    Clearly haven't... I have clutch info in my build thread... with actual pictures for those that can't read :D

    <tuffty/>
    Mate your thread is like a bloody labyrinth! It needs to be broken into 4 parts like the Lord of the rings

    If you dont mind linking me to the relevant post in your thread please
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    it's true, threads like mine, tuftys, wellys turbo threads, the FMIC thread, and infact, your very own thread Westy, are now SO long that searching for a specific detail in the many many pages could take you hours!

    Sorry I can't help dude, but best of luck with it!
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    <tuffty/>'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Westy View Post
    Mate your thread is like a bloody labyrinth! It needs to be broken into 4 parts like the Lord of the rings

    If you dont mind linking me to the relevant post in your thread please
    lol... you are not wrong mate... I might have to edit the first post sometime and bung in an index

    Some info here...

    and...

    continues here...

    <tuffty/>
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    Ok Tuffty, cheers matey.

    I see you went for a dual mass flywheel with a sachs plate.

    what needs to be considered when deciding on single vs dual mass flywheels?

    Most people seem to go with Sachs or LUK clutch plates, any idea what these are rated to or the difference between the 2?
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    LuK make the OEM clutch kit... I didn't fancy the inherent rattle you get with a single mass flywheel and there are issues when they aren't machined correctly where you end up with the bite point being lower or higher than normal...

    I choose the combo of std LuK pressure plate, DMF and Sachs paddle clutch plate for a number of reasons... first its the same clutch a guy on SCN/TT forums has been using for a while in a 500hp odd TT with no real problems, its the same setup as MTM have used for some of their big turbo builds and crucially when you consider teh logic/physics behind this setup you get an OEM feeling clutch pedal (light and decent bite point), no rattle and sooth take up plus the pressure plate doesn't need you to have a leg like Arnie to operate it as the physics are you get more clamping force across the 4 pucks of the paddle plate than you would for a circular organic plate... going for a circular organic (or other type) plate would mean you need a heavier pressure plate to get the same torque capability

    Clutch choice is essentially a minefield so I played it fairly safe... still not sure on longevity and don't kid yourself you can launch the car all over the place either... it will do it but it will reduce the life of the components... not as quickly maybe as a std clutch but it still will... overall longevity of this setup of course under normal conditions will no doubt be less than a std clutch if you were to drive sensibly but it very subjective...

    I tend not to launch the car and avoid hill starts on my normal trips around where I live to prolong the life of the clutch...

    <tuffty/>
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    I had a read on the sachs clutch a while ago, i think it can stand up to 550 N/m.
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    Are we possibly now dropping a clutch in as well as rods
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    Dane's Avatar
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    I had Tuffty's set up, you wont go wrong

    and I'm sure, being the yobbo I am, I was a bit harder on it than tuffty.
    Last edited by Dane; 18th January 2012 at 10:02.

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    Westy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StaceyS3 View Post
    Are we possibly now dropping a clutch in as well as rods
    I am looking to get the clutch/flywheel with the plan to do it the same week as the rods yes
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  13. #12
    Westy's Avatar
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    Cheers for all the info lads.

    I was thinking that as my car will probably end up being a track car that wont be used as a daily that a single FW would be a good idea but I've now been slightly put off by stories of rattling and biting point issues.

    I'll give the "LuK pressure plate, DMF and Sachs paddle clutch plate" setup a go I think.

    Now, its time to hunt for the cheapest deal
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  14. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dane View Post
    I had Tuffty's set up, you wont go wrong

    and I'm sure, being the yobbo I am, I was a bit harder on it than tuffty.
    What clutch setup did you fry at GTI Inters??
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    I have a single mass and no rattles from mine. Its only really the diesels that you get the bad rattle on or proper light single flys. Cant remember whether prawn said he gets a slight noise from his as its lightened but its nothing bad if it does. Where as diesels are horrific! lol

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  16. #15
    Dane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Westy View Post
    What clutch setup did you fry at GTI Inters??
    The 8 month old OEM set up, Tuffty's set up is what I went for after inters

  17. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason.s View Post
    I have a single mass and no rattles from mine. Its only really the diesels that you get the bad rattle on or proper light single flys. Cant remember whether prawn said he gets a slight noise from his as its lightened but its nothing bad if it does. Where as diesels are horrific! lol
    What FW are you using Jason?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dane View Post
    The 8 month old OEM set up, Tuffty's set up is what I went for after inters
    only 8 month old

    What makes Tuffty's setup that much stronger? Is it the paddle clutch?
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  18. #17
    Dane's Avatar
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    Its a sintered paddle as opposed to the organic oem plate so it handles heat better, but it will still wear out eventually.
    Launches will kill clutches no matter what.

  19. #18
    Westy's Avatar
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    Ok, so my next question to people is: where did you buy the parts from?
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  20. #19
    Dane's Avatar
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    Sachs direct through Bill.
    .......... I think

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    A3AH's Avatar
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    i know its not relevant but it makes me wonder why my car needed a clutch and flywheel at 42,000 standard, do they go on age aswell as mileage then or could this guy not drive lol.

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    Im using an Diesel single mass fly from Audi 80/100/early Passats. Obviously not suitable for an S3 though

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  23. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason.s View Post
    Im using an Diesel single mass fly from Audi 80/100/early Passats. Obviously not suitable for an S3 though
    Any idea what single mass flywheels are suitable for the 8L?
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  24. #23
    Westy's Avatar
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    Anyone got any experience of "techniclutch" on eBay?

    AUDI A3 S3 1.8T SOLID MASS FLYWHEEL AND SPORTS CLUTCH KIT & CSC BEARING | eBay
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  25. #24
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    you might not even need to change the dmf

  26. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dane View Post
    you might not even need to change the dmf
    I think it's the original one mate so might as well do it anyway.
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  27. #26
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    STAY THE F**K AWAY FROM TECHNICLUTCH!!!! that is all...lol

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  28. #27
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    LuK clutch and DMF from GSF (£100 and £230 respectively at the time I bought them), Sachs paddle plate is £280ish?? iirc... Call Bill... don't forget the concentric slave while its out... £24 from GSF for peace of mind thats its done.. as its all coming off etc

    SMF clatter varies... had a few Ibizas in and varies from little to horrendous clatter...

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  29. #28
    Westy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by <tuffty/> View Post
    LuK clutch and DMF from GSF (£100 and £230 respectively at the time I bought them), Sachs paddle plate is £280ish?? iirc... Call Bill... don't forget the concentric slave while its out... £24 from GSF for peace of mind thats its done.. as its all coming off etc

    <tuffty/>
    What flywheel is our one on GSF? There's different clearing angles and number of teeth?
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  30. #29
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    Ok GSF seem to have put their prices up a bit!

    Clutch kit £164.40
    DMF £301.20
    Concentric slave £34.86

    Total of £500.46 before even ordering the paddle clutch plate
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  31. #30
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  32. #31
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    Bit more than £349.20 (GSF)

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  33. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason.s View Post
    Bit more than £349.20 (GSF)
    Yeah but the lovely price you did me was for a kit that will probably need replacing in a year mate.

    The original spec of the 225ps S3 was 221bhp and 206lbft of torque. I'm already running an extra 100lbft and that will go up once the rods are in.

    I think I need a clutch kit that will take a bit more abuse and the Awesome one seems to tick all my boxes
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  34. #33
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    My single mass chatters but it varies only really tends to do it when you put the engine under load on tick over generally when ac is on

    It hasn't really done it much at all since bill mapped it? Not sure if he raised the tick over value ever so slightly?
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  35. #34
    <tuffty/>'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Westy View Post
    What flywheel is our one on GSF? There's different clearing angles and number of teeth?
    Not sure as I gave them my chassis number and they came up with the goods...

    Quote Originally Posted by Westy View Post
    Ok GSF seem to have put their prices up a bit!

    Clutch kit £164.40
    DMF £301.20
    Concentric slave £34.86

    Total of £500.46 before even ordering the paddle clutch plate
    Hummm... tbh I do get good discount from my local GSF as they know me quite well... I suspect if you went tot he counter you could haggle that down... the prices I quoted were + vat iirc as they were the only ones I remember from when I bought them

    The Awesome clutch looks ok but just remember that no clutch is bullet proof and doesn't mean you can launch the crap out of it and expect it to last... (Dane ;P)

    Be interesting to see how you get on with it if you go for it... not enough info about different clutches on here really as for the most part std ones do ok for stage 1/2 remaps and there is not enough data on here from long term BT or other big power cars to get an idea of whats good and what isn't...

    <tuffty/>
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  36. #35
    Westy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by <tuffty/> View Post
    Not sure as I gave them my chassis number and they came up with the goods...



    Hummm... tbh I do get good discount from my local GSF as they know me quite well... I suspect if you went tot he counter you could haggle that down... the prices I quoted were + vat iirc as they were the only ones I remember from when I bought them

    The Awesome clutch looks ok but just remember that no clutch is bullet proof and doesn't mean you can launch the crap out of it and expect it to last... (Dane ;P)

    Be interesting to see how you get on with it if you go for it... not enough info about different clutches on here really as for the most part std ones do ok for stage 1/2 remaps and there is not enough data on here from long term BT or other big power cars to get an idea of whats good and what isn't...

    <tuffty/>
    Oh I agree with you totally about there being a lack of clutch info on this site, hence this thread. Everyone tends to stick to what the person before has done as it's easier to do that then to take a risk.

    I want something to meet my needs, which are a clutch that will take a beating on a track, not launched, but driven hard. I do 6 miles a day in light traffic so I can live with a heavy pedal.

    So far the Awesome clutch is top of the list. I'm just doing some research on it to see if it's gonna be ok.
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  37. #36
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    Quote from Awesome GTI on SCN.net

    Quote Originally Posted by Awesome GTI
    We've got one of these on a car running 430lb/ft of torque with no issues.
    Time wise, It could be done within 5-6 hours if the proper precautions are taken.

    From our experience so far, It is no different in terms of chatter or noise than a standard clutch kit!
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  38. #37
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    Good sign^ Get it done!

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  39. #38
    Maz
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    I'm only running stage 1 power but still decided to get a LUK dual mass and Sachs clutch kit fitted at APS about three years ago, cost me an arm an a leg but it's rated upto 400bhp. You get a nice heavy feel on the clutch without any extra chattering / vibration...

    ...I dont abuse it but launches well when needed!


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  40. #39
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    I had a standard setup fitted at Midland VW. If i try and launch at 5k it doesnt like it but for all other driving its been fine touch wood.
    Ive been Badger 5'd

    Can we break the magic 300?????? In a word Yes 314 BHP 249 lbft at Badger 5

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    steves is way quicker than any stock turbo'd s3 i have driven
    I only date skinny Women! They keep my power to weight higher...

  41. #40
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    Don't think many clutches like launching mines a southbend stage 2 daily with a smf iirc its rated to 400lb and heres the result of 4000 miles and a good few launches







    I have now accepted the fact that it not able to cope with launches in the dry but in the wet its fun coz you can light up all four

    I do wish i bought a paddle clutch but at the time the misses used to drive the car as much if not more than me so this was a happy medium
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