P1297 / 17705 - something different?

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Craig1.8t

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Hi all I've made a fresh post and going to list everything I have tried and done.
EDIT: I have searched the web for ideas and have found nothing other than what I've already tried.

I have vagcom and VAS main dealer. VAS says p1297 17705 pressure drop between turbo and throttle valve - STATIC. Notice how mine says static, yet the majority of other people with this fault says intermittent. How can it be "static" at idle with no boost and 20 inch vacuum.

Before i go on, the car always runs flat until boost gets to 10 psi (car is mapped) then goes like the clappers, then goes in to limp mode. Sometimes it will jerk as if you are jabbing the throttle on and off. Sometimes but rarely get backfires while accelerating..

This fault is mainly trial and error. And here is my exhaustive effort to fix this fault:

New genuine maf (x2)
Air intake temp sensor genuine
Coil packs genuine
Spark plugs genuine
N75 genuine
Pressure relief valve genuine
Dump valve genuine (now running forge diverter)
De-cat
Rear lambda/O2 delete
Smoke tested with no leaks (at least into atmosphere)
Minimal play in turbo
Checked timing, intake cam very slightly advanced
Vacuum pipes checked & vacuum holds
Checked pcv valve works as should do
2nd hand genuine fuel pump (reads 3bar with vacuum pipe removed from FPR)
New fuel filter genuine
Replaced fpr several times making sure o-rings are not damaged
cleaned and realigned throttle body
Injectors read 12.7 ohms
Injectors appear to have identical spray pattern
Cleaned earths under battery and on coil pack loom
New boost pipe genuine
Engine oil flush with SPX refilled with 5w-30 long life 3 genuine oil and genuine filter
Replaced both solenoid valves on intake manifold (n249 and what ever the other one is)
Replaced ECT
New y shape breather hose
New pipercross air filter
Tried a 180bhp ecu, fault and symptoms remain the same.

VAGCOM logs look ok, nothing out of the ordinary. Will do more if requested.
No rich/lean fault codes

Someone please help before I burn the car in anger lol..
thanks
 
pressure drop on throttle valve usually means it requires clean and reset
what does boost read on vagcom whilst driving ?
are the wires to n75 ok as these break at terminal
 
I will check wiring when I get a bit of time.

Tuffty, I'm not sure because when I changed the fuel pump it cured all the top end of the problems (was holding back sometimes) so I'm not sur. saying that the car was my friends before I bought it and it was him who had it mapped. There was problems before the map but they could have been the pump related problems.
 
Craig1.8t said:
I will check wiring when I get a bit of time.

Tuffty, I'm not sure because when I changed the fuel pump it cured all the top end of the problems (was holding back sometimes) so I'm not sur. saying that the car was my friends before I bought it and it was him who had it mapped. There was problems before the map but they could have been the pump related problems.
Click to expand...

You are at that point when ideally you need to get some logging done to see whats going on... if you have an AGU then you could do with some way to check the AFR (wideband gauge) but if you have an AUM then you can log AFR through block 31..

Symptoms suggest the ECU isn't happy about something and loging is realistically the only way you are gonna get an idea of where to start looking

<tuffty/>
 
Sorry it's an AUM I should have mentioned. I will do some logs tonight after work what's your instructions? Any other channels to log while I'm at it?
 
Blocks 003 (airflow), 031 (fuel request vs actual), 115 (boost request vs actual) initially..

Warm the engine to 90 deg before doing the runs... start from 2k rpm in third and accelerate foot to the floor until you get as legally/safely close to the redline as you can (or if the ecu will let you of course)

Open the csv file in Excel, freeze the panes on the line below the headings, scroll to where the run starts making sure its all in screen... do a snipping tool crop of the data on screen, upload to your favourite picture hosting site (e.g. Photobucket) and post the result here :)

Simples...

<tuffty/>
 
It needs a thermostat to get 90 degrees (still did this fault before thermostat started to stick open)

Is it important to have 90 doin these tests? I have the part just trying to get time to fit it.
 
Craig1.8t said:
It needs a thermostat to get 90 degrees (still did this fault before thermostat started to stick open)

Is it important to have 90 doin these tests? I have the part just trying to get time to fit it.
Click to expand...

Yes... ECU will be in cold start mode if not and fuelling tests etc will be meaningless...

<tuffty/>
 
But it won't be the cause of my problem? Because it did it when it use to sit on 90.. Anyway I will fit it and do some tests, I'll pm you when I'm ready thanks mate
 
Craig1.8t said:
But it won't be the cause of my problem? Because it did it when it use to sit on 90.. Anyway I will fit it and do some tests, I'll pm you when I'm ready thanks mate
Click to expand...

I wouldn't have thought its the cause but its certainly not going to be helping your cause... doo the logging and we can see whats what but you need to eliminate the stat as an issue to get a clearer picture of whats going on...

<tuffty/>
 
Ok thank you, finally someone willing to help who actually knows something :)
 
Is the car mapped?

If so its a common problem, with a buggy piece of code in the ECU software.

AFAIK you (well the tuner) can disable the faulty routine or use a later version of the software code.

Info here:
Audi S3 1.8T Coldstart Problemand here:
Hitting Limp-Mode and cannot understand WHY

If you know who mapped it, take it back to them. If you dont, find a new tuner whos willing to fix it.
 
aragorn said:
Is the car mapped?

If so its a common problem, with a buggy piece of code in the ECU software.

AFAIK you (well the tuner) can disable the faulty routine or use a later version of the software code.

Info here:
Audi S3 1.8T Coldstart Problemand here:
Hitting Limp-Mode and cannot understand WHY

If you know who mapped it, take it back to them. If you dont, find a new tuner whos willing to fix it.
Click to expand...

Had this issue with the Custom Code stage 1 remap I had before I went BT... forgot all about that :)

CC sent over a new file and never had it again... although if you ask them they would deny it was their code :)

<tuffty/>
 
The 17705 software bug on mine only happened when the car was cold and the temperature was 5C or below. It would never happen when warm.

If I went out to the car on a cold morning and drove it I wouldn't be able to make more than 5psi. If I then turned the car off and then on again about 10-15 minutes later full boost would be restored.

R-Tech applied the 17705 patch and all has been well ever since.
 
The car is mapped but I tried a different ECU from a 180BHP engine, and the fault was still there...

Just been given a bunch of parts free :) got injector rail with FPR and I think I have discovered a problem! The injectors in my car right now read 12.7 ohms and according to Autodata they should read 12 (I presumed this was fine with it bein in the 12's) but the injectors i have been given read 12.0 so I think I may have sourced the running problem don't know til I fit them. the code how ever could just be misleading.
 
audi upgrades
Just changed the injectors and the hall sender. At first the fault code would not erase and would not come out of limp mode left the car for ten mins then the code erased and limp mode was gone. Car still runs the same. Will do some logs
 
Tuffty, I still hasn't got round to fitting thermostat that's why I haven't been in touch with some logs.

Today I went to the car started up from cold and it was spluttering bad, wouldn't rev straight away etc.. Was better when warm but throughout the day been very jerky, is there anything you can think of except what I've tried that would cause this?
 
If its running rich then its gonna be a little iffy but you still need to fix all the bits you know is wrong before you can hope to find anything else... these engines rely on so many different sensors etc that even something as simple as a thermostat can throw it all over the place..

<tuffty/>
 
http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/5240/18taumlogs.jpg 3rd gear WOT
18taumlogs.jpg
 
Last edited:
Craig1.8t said:
The car is mapped but I tried a different ECU from a 180BHP engine, and the fault was still there...

Just been given a bunch of parts free :) got injector rail with FPR and I think I have discovered a problem! The injectors in my car right now read 12.7 ohms and according to Autodata they should read 12 (I presumed this was fine with it bein in the 12's) but the injectors i have been given read 12.0 so I think I may have sourced the running problem don't know til I fit them. the code how ever could just be misleading.
Click to expand...

Most 150/180 hp ecu code have the low threshold fvpdkldus (Untere Schwelle für Leck vor Drosselklappe Erkennung im Leerlauf bei niedriger t) map which can easy cause cold start issuse and the 17705 fault even when there is no hardware issues. If your 100% there is no hardware fault then just by changing this map will fix all your issues.

Even is stock code the fvpdkldus map can trigger the 17705 code, but its more so once remapped and low down enigne VE request changes.

Nick
 
Nick, I have MPPS and WinOLS do you know how I can write out the 17705 using this software? Or is it possible I could e cheeky and send you the file that is in now that would be a .bin file?

Thanks
 
Nick, I have MPPS and WinOLS do you know how I can write out the 17705 using this software? Or is it possible I could e cheeky and send you the file that is in now that would be a .bin file?

Thanks
 
Send it to my email and I will patch it now for you.. I will make the change and give you the addesses.

Nick
 
Last edited:
Just reading the file now will send it you within 15 minutes thank you
 
audi upgrades
Got the email mate thanks will let you know tomorrow how it goes. So hen you wrote out the code are you stopping it measuring boost in the way it use to? Or just eliminating the code?
 
Temp related threshold corrections a 5x1 map you will see 4 8bit bytes sets now at 00
Lower threshold for leak detection in the throttle from idle at low temp.

If you have major issues with boost/maf deviations then you will still gtt 17705 code. I have seen some maps with the P code dct tables all set to zero to stop all codes.
 
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