Remapped? Buy rods!!!

S3 Paul said:
I think to be fair , yes there was plenty of big turbo kits around but people were still developing the hybrid set up.
Click to expand...

tbh I can see your point but... at that time there may have been a suspicion that under certain conditions rods could be an issue bearing in mind the cars were younger with less mileage when all this stuff was developed... but now that our cars are getting into their twilight years fatigue etc is starting to be a factor... I was just having this very discussion with Prawn... our cars a few years back were still fetching premium prices and were being sold on dealer forecourts... when I was looking for mine over three years ago 2002/2003 plated cars were silly money and not much about on independent traders forecourts... my 51 plate (which I managed to get at a good price at the time) was up for nearly 9K... it wasn't even remapped... most of the later cars I saw were clean unmolested examples albeit out of my price range of the time..

Even at 9k the S3 was unlikely to attract the sort of person that would be into heavy modding etc, most of the remapped ones I saw were pre facelift...

Point I am trying (and probably failing lol) to make is more recently these cars have become cheaper and people are buying them as a cheap way to get a more powerful car either by remapping or by major mods like myself and others have done... we are now starting to see the weaknesses that the engines have... notice its APY's and AGU's that have mostly thrown rods... I don't immediately recall a BAM or AMK doing one yet (but then my memory is crap and I have been on these forums more or less since I bought my car lol)

If someone came to me and said I want a Stage 2 Revo for my AMK S3 should I do the rods.... how do I answer?... I can't turn around and say yes... do them as your rods will fail at some point... same token I can't not mention that rods are becoming an issue either... should you do rods if all you have is stage 1/2 at this point of your cars life? humm... that is only a decision you can make... the cost of fitting them is realistically more than 25% of the value of the car (based on a high mileage early S3) unless you can do it yourself... if you don't plan to keep the car long then you may ask why bother... won't be my problem... however if you plan to keep the car a while or have bigger plans then maybe... its worth spending a bit to get the peace of mind... resale value can be enhanced a bit as your engine will be potentially more reliable than others than haven't done a rod swap...

If they came to me and said I am going hybrid or GT30 then the answer is easier... that level of work realistically needs rods for so many reasons... main one being why are you trying to add 100hp or 200hp more knowing that at this point in the engines life rod failure could be just around the corner... there is enough evidence to support it and it would be stupid as someone who has done this level of work not to suggest otherwise...

Maybe 3 or 4 years ago when this level of work was rarer and the engines were younger it was less of a risk and people were happy that the engine would survive their big turbo kits and rods could be offered as a 'peace of mind' upgrade but today things are different... there is more than enough evidence to support fitting rods if you plan to do something more than stage1/2... rods are a no brainer for me at that level...

Sorry for the rambling on but I see these rod threads and they just fill me with such dread... there will always be advocates for and against rods.. people that say so and so has been running them for years on 3million bhp without a problem, people who can't see the point in spending the money on something that is so subjective it may never happen and others that want to spend the money on their car to make it the best it can be knowing they will potentially loose money but don't care...

These threads inevitably end in a bun fight (like the last one for those that remember) and nobody ends up fully understanding whats going on..

Fact is... the rods in these engines are bending regardless of who's running what turbo and what tuner told whoever whatever... if you plan to run anything beyond stage 1/2 then factor rods in as part of the work... simply stupid not too... for those with high mileage engines running stage 1/2 then you have the information here... make your own minds up if you want peace of mind and/or can see the value of getting them done... just be aware that there is no way to predict if your rods are on borrowed time or if you can do 300k trouble free miles...

<tuffty/>
 
Sound advice.
I bought my car back about 6 years back and payed 11k for it .
In the 6 years I've spent the same again.
I've not made silly power but the engine was built to take safely whatever I may decide .
It will never be a 600bhp monster but I wanted to be sure I was well inside the limits .
All my money has been spent trying to make the car better regardless of the resale.
As with anything in life, the choice is yours... Better safe than sorry in my eyes
 
I bent a rod in my bam but it was very mildly bent ;-)

And i know what you mean about the value of these cars bought mine 3 years ago this month and it was one of the cheapest facelift ones I d find and still cost £7000 then they just seemed to plumit in value with the recession :-(

And I think Paul has hit the nail on the head, I knew I was taking a risk but also had bad advice and was assured I didn't need them from a certain tuner....
I had planned on doing them but only when funds permitted
 
for those with high mileage engines running stage 1/2 then you have the information here... make your own minds up if you want peace of mind and/or can see the value of getting them done... just be aware that there is no way to predict if your rods are on borrowed time or if you can do 300k trouble free miles...

<tuffty/>
Click to expand...

This is why I can't wait to see how Nicks goes!
 
It does make you wonder just how many engines are running with slightly kinked rods in them at the moment :sadlike:

I wouldn't be surprised if one of mine is showing wear when they come out in a couple of months. Just about to hit 130K miles.
 
Last edited:
Would a compression test show any problems? or measuring the height of each piston at TDC?
 
Good write up tuffty
I would have defo of done my rods before going up another nos jet(100 bhp jet) if my engine wasn't going in the bin in a few months time

I think ppl want lots of power on a small budget
As you say these car really aren't worth much at all so I guess some ppl are just a lil more carefree than others depending on how much money you've chucked at your car
I've owned mine 5 years and I wouldn't wanna see the engine destroyed just like that
But if you paid 3G for an s3 months ago ???

For me if was heading for over 350 I'd defo do them without thinking twice about it???
 
lol, yeah i suppose so. i wasnt really sure though as im no mechanic :) chuffed when it turned out to be right, although he wasnt
 
same as I had on an ibiza which came in... IHI VF34, stock engine, which the "tuner" who supplied/fitted the turbo mapped to 2bar of boost..

No sh1t sherlock it had a little tick tick (way quieter than that video) which I feared was rods.. Dropped the sump and found the oil squirter sat there. doh!

285lbft is what it was making and just a hair over 300bhp.
 
Interesting thread! I'm no mechanic so excuse which may seem an obvious question but once Rods fail what kind of damage can they do to the engine? (apart from the Rods themselves!)
 
well i think the ticking noise you can hear in that video i posted is the bent rod clipping the cylinder bore, so obviously they can damage the cylinder bore. And if they snap then they might punch a hole through the block i guess
 
Worst case they write off the whole engine. If the rod actually snaps, it'll typically punch a hole thru the engine casing, and flying debris can damage the cylinder head too. At that point its quite simply time for a new engine.
 
fran-s3 said:
Interesting thread! I'm no mechanic so excuse which may seem an obvious question but once Rods fail what kind of damage can they do to the engine? (apart from the Rods themselves!)
Click to expand...

If you're lucky like the guy who's engine is in the original post you can get away with a bent rod that does no damage to the block at all. Worse case scenario is a gaping hole in the engine and a new one will be needed.
 
fran-s3 said:
Interesting thread! I'm no mechanic so excuse which may seem an obvious question but once Rods fail what kind of damage can they do to the engine? (apart from the Rods themselves!)
Click to expand...

Can vary... minimal is just a bent rod moving up to broken oil squirter advancing to (Welly's for example) a rod bent enough that it take a chunk out of the side of the bore right up to punching a hole in the block and essentially wasting the engine...

Up to knocking off an oil squirter is typically recoverable... beyond that is a new bottom end or engine depending...

<tuffty/>
 
Ouch! Pot luck then if it goes completely or just kinks for a bit. Cheers guys very interesting...
 
Mine I was very lucky it had bent in a different direction to what usually see, it made the piston hit and break a valve where the rod had ever so slightly tilted towards the cam belt, it was so little compared to others ive seen that it wasn't noticeable until I dismantled the pistons and rods because it was right at the top by the small end

If it hadnt of broke a valve then what I pressume is what caused it to get hot, melting the tip of the spark plug I wouldn't have known anything was wrong it was just the constant misfire that was the only symptom
 
If the rod snaps and puts a hole in the block it can set the car on fire because of the engine oil going on to the hot exhaust. Forged rods can be done for around £400 if you diy them
 
c9308bb6.jpg
 
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