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Thread: Very very confused RE: Concert -> Aftermarket swap!

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    Unhappy Very very confused RE: Concert -> Aftermarket swap!

    Right.. So I thought I'd swap over to my new head unit today, after getting the facia adaptor and new CD player through, and also to wire up the sub and amp that I bought earlier on in the week.

    I've gone into Halfords and borrowed a set of keys to get the Bose Concert unit out, only to find that the speaker wires are in a weird plug that won't connect into the ISO lead that came with the new head unit.

    I'm guessing I need some form of wiring harness adaptor as well for this but am getting myself confused now as when I search on here I end up with all sorts of different solutions for different stock CD players.

    Do I need a PC9-404 harness adaptor? Is there anything else I need? There's an aerial adaptor in the head unit that appears to plug in fine.

    Will I have problems with 'popping' once I wire it in due to the sub/amp that I THINK that i've got? Is this going to have an affect on the wiring up of the sub-amp? Also - Where's the best place to get the power through into the car from the engine bay?

    Need to know ASAP really as I've wired it back up and it's now telling me 'SAFE' and I don't know my radio code!

    Lots of questions :$
    2000 Plate Audi S3 1.8T Santorin Blue - 275BHP on Custom Parsons Performance remap, Forge 007p DV, Red DogBush, Milltek non-res, Lowered 35mm Apex springs, Badger5 TIP/cone filter/heat shield, Powerflex'd, Large FMIC, Relentless Downpipe, Parsons Decat and lots of love.
    On gearbox number 4.
    Further modification to come..

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  3. #2
    "Stick a V8 in it!"

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    Is your existing system bose or not?

    If not, the headunit directly drives the front speakers and the rear speakers are driven by a small amplifier in the boot. This requires a PC9-404, to get the pre-out signal from your headunit and send it to the amp.

    If it is bose, then the head unit doesnt drive any of the speakers, and all the outputs are sent to a small amplifier in the boot. This requires a different lead, and i dont know the number for this off hand.

    2000 A4 1.8T Sport Quattro Avant, Berry Pearl
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    If you have no brown speaker ISO harness at the HU then you do have Bose.
    You therefore need pc9-410 providing your new HU has front & rear pre-outs (RCA's)
    "How to tear apart the ties that bind, perhaps fcuk off might be too kind"
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    Lee172's Avatar
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    Say if you had an aftermarket HU and you want to use the bose amp/speakers, would you still use pc9-410?

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    That's exactly why you need to use it. If you are bypassing the Bose amp & fitting aftermarket speakers you don't need any adapter at all.
    "How to tear apart the ties that bind, perhaps fcuk off might be too kind"
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    Hmm still slightly confused - I think I've read too many topics with different systems and got myself in a tizzy!

    This is the CD player I have:



    And this is what the wiring out the back looks like:



    I think the speakers are fully amplified - Does this mean that I need to get the wiring harness that plugs in to the back of the stereo via phono leads rather than converting to an ISO plug?

    I want to run a sub and amp through the stereo but I think i've only got one set of RCA sockets on the back of the new stereo. Does this mean I can't do it, or is there a way around it?

    ~AVeryConfusedMan
    Danny C likes this.
    2000 Plate Audi S3 1.8T Santorin Blue - 275BHP on Custom Parsons Performance remap, Forge 007p DV, Red DogBush, Milltek non-res, Lowered 35mm Apex springs, Badger5 TIP/cone filter/heat shield, Powerflex'd, Large FMIC, Relentless Downpipe, Parsons Decat and lots of love.
    On gearbox number 4.
    Further modification to come..

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    Yes you have the fully amplified Bose system.
    Depends what you are planning:
    The multcoloured connector at the top on the Audi HU contains the front & rear pre-out feeds to the 4ch Bose amp (the yellow section), the green section is the feed to the DIS and the blue section the CD changer.
    If you are fitting a new HU and want to plug it into the Bose setup then you need the PC9-410 adapter.
    If you are just adding a sub and amp, then you still need the adapter (otherwise the cabin speakers won't work). You can pick up the feeds for the sub from the sub connector in the rear cubbyhole in the boot.
    If you are replacing the Bose cabin amp with an aftermarket one then you don't need an adapter, but you will need a HU with front & rear pre-outs (RCA's).
    If you are just adding an amp for the new sub and want to run the speakers directly from the new HU then you don't need the adapter but you will need to replace all the cabin speakers as they are 1.5ohm impedance and will fry the HU's internal amp if directly connected to it. You will also need to run new speaker cable, either directly to the speakers or back to the Bose amp and pick up the connections there.
    You will also need a fascia adapter and antenna amp adapter.
    You will also need to swap over the perm live and ignition live as Audi wire them back to front on the black ISO connector.
    "How to tear apart the ties that bind, perhaps fcuk off might be too kind"
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    Ahhh this is interesting, and sounds frustratingly more complicated than I had initially planned.

    I basically want to install an aftermarket HU and a subwoofer and amplifier.

    I have the following hardware so far:

    Fascia Adaptor
    Antenna adaptor so that it fits into new HU
    12" Sub-box and amplifier - With Remote Turn on lead, phono leads, power lead and earth lead.
    Sony aftermarket HU with 1 set of phono-lead sockets in the back

    I am now thinking from your post above that the new head unit won't be able to handle the current speakers if I am wiring in the aftermarket sub and amp.

    Do I need to do away with the Bose sub and amp in order to run the aftermarket, or can I leave it and just run them at the same time?

    Do I therefore need to replace all the speakers as well, and lay new wiring if I am doing what I am intending on doing?

    Sounds like I am definitely going to need the PC9-410 but if I am using that won't it prevent me from being able to wire in the aftermarket sub-amp combo due to it taking up the only phono-lead sockets in the back of the HU?
    2000 Plate Audi S3 1.8T Santorin Blue - 275BHP on Custom Parsons Performance remap, Forge 007p DV, Red DogBush, Milltek non-res, Lowered 35mm Apex springs, Badger5 TIP/cone filter/heat shield, Powerflex'd, Large FMIC, Relentless Downpipe, Parsons Decat and lots of love.
    On gearbox number 4.
    Further modification to come..

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    s3dave's Avatar
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    Andy made me a nice little loom for this ...pm him...

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    very easy to do same set up nearlly as mine ive got an aftermarket hu alpine double din and a fully amplified bose system ive left the bose sub in aswell i got the pc9410 connected that to the stereo that got front and rear speakers working aswell as the sub,connected rcas to the pc9410 they go to my vibe sub in the boot,then i got some 6+9s and run them on an amp ,picked the feed up of the bose amp in the boot voila hope it helps

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    Cool! I'll buy a PC9-410 today then, cheers!
    2000 Plate Audi S3 1.8T Santorin Blue - 275BHP on Custom Parsons Performance remap, Forge 007p DV, Red DogBush, Milltek non-res, Lowered 35mm Apex springs, Badger5 TIP/cone filter/heat shield, Powerflex'd, Large FMIC, Relentless Downpipe, Parsons Decat and lots of love.
    On gearbox number 4.
    Further modification to come..

  13. #12
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    That's not going to solve the problem with a single set of pre-outs. Probably better to buy a decent HU with a full set of pre-outs
    "How to tear apart the ties that bind, perhaps fcuk off might be too kind"
    Alex Turner

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    "Stick a V8 in it!"

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    you could just use a Y splitter on the pre-out, but you'll likely lose any front/rear fade control?

    2000 A4 1.8T Sport Quattro Avant, Berry Pearl
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    Yeah I'm guessing I could buy two of these:

    PRE OUT / RCA / LINE OUT SPLITTERS / DIVIDERS - GOLD | eBay

    And that would mean both sets of speakers work.

    Could I be even cheekier and buy four of them and then plug my amp-lead into the back too? :P
    2000 Plate Audi S3 1.8T Santorin Blue - 275BHP on Custom Parsons Performance remap, Forge 007p DV, Red DogBush, Milltek non-res, Lowered 35mm Apex springs, Badger5 TIP/cone filter/heat shield, Powerflex'd, Large FMIC, Relentless Downpipe, Parsons Decat and lots of love.
    On gearbox number 4.
    Further modification to come..

  16. #15
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    whats up with the old headunit??

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    It's poorly mate - It has the known-issue of going straight up to full volume when you try and adjust it, and getting stuck there until you turn it off and back on again.

    Sometimes it'll go down to 0 volume and won't come back on at all until it's turned off and back on again.

    Oh, and at the moment it needs a radio code from where I got it out, unplugged it, and thought **** - I don't have the right harness!
    2000 Plate Audi S3 1.8T Santorin Blue - 275BHP on Custom Parsons Performance remap, Forge 007p DV, Red DogBush, Milltek non-res, Lowered 35mm Apex springs, Badger5 TIP/cone filter/heat shield, Powerflex'd, Large FMIC, Relentless Downpipe, Parsons Decat and lots of love.
    On gearbox number 4.
    Further modification to come..

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    That and the fact that it's only 4x25W so the system as a whole sounds pony :P
    2000 Plate Audi S3 1.8T Santorin Blue - 275BHP on Custom Parsons Performance remap, Forge 007p DV, Red DogBush, Milltek non-res, Lowered 35mm Apex springs, Badger5 TIP/cone filter/heat shield, Powerflex'd, Large FMIC, Relentless Downpipe, Parsons Decat and lots of love.
    On gearbox number 4.
    Further modification to come..

  19. #18
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    i know of a website to get unlock codes if u want it worked on mine?? i know that prob mine does the exact same!!

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    Lee172's Avatar
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    S3matthewd what facia plate did you use for the double din?

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    Adding a new HU and linking it to the Bose amp will still only give you 4 x 25w
    Your other option is to use the speaker level input adapter, which will retain your front/rear fader, but it is a poor solution as it uses a very cheap hi-lo converter and is prone to interference issues.
    "How to tear apart the ties that bind, perhaps fcuk off might be too kind"
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    Ed that would be really helpful if you could PM me the link please fella.

    Andy I think off the back of that I'll fit the sub/amp and front/rear speakers through those Y-splitters for now.. And then get and fit new rear speakers into the other 2 channels of the existing amp that I have for powering the sub, but at my convenience rather than urgently. It's 6.5" coaxials that I need for the back I take it.

    When I've done that I'll only need to have two Y-splitters rather than four.
    2000 Plate Audi S3 1.8T Santorin Blue - 275BHP on Custom Parsons Performance remap, Forge 007p DV, Red DogBush, Milltek non-res, Lowered 35mm Apex springs, Badger5 TIP/cone filter/heat shield, Powerflex'd, Large FMIC, Relentless Downpipe, Parsons Decat and lots of love.
    On gearbox number 4.
    Further modification to come..

  23. #22
    "Stick a V8 in it!"

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    TBH if your going to do anything, use the amp to drive the front speakers and leave the rears disconnected.

    Why would you want to configure it so the worst sound quality is in the front?

    2000 A4 1.8T Sport Quattro Avant, Berry Pearl
    2000 A4 1.8T Sport Quattro Saloon, Black-ish
    1997 S4 - PPC £999 Challenge Track Car Build
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  24. #23
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    The external amp would be running the rear speakers so that they can run at the new power of 4x45 rather than the 4x25 on the bose amp. I'd leave the bose amp running the fronts at 4x25. That would mean the better sound quality is on the rears, surely?
    2000 Plate Audi S3 1.8T Santorin Blue - 275BHP on Custom Parsons Performance remap, Forge 007p DV, Red DogBush, Milltek non-res, Lowered 35mm Apex springs, Badger5 TIP/cone filter/heat shield, Powerflex'd, Large FMIC, Relentless Downpipe, Parsons Decat and lots of love.
    On gearbox number 4.
    Further modification to come..

  25. #24
    "Stick a V8 in it!"

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    You dont generally sit in the back, unless you've got a particularly odd configuration of S3... :P

    So why on earth would you want the rear speakers to be better than the fronts? You sit in the front, and presumably your doing all this because you want better sounds for yourself, rather than for your jacket on the back seat!

    The rear speakers are the least important of the whole setup espeically when you've got a subwoofer for bass fill, and the fronts are most important, because those are what your listening to.

    On my car i threw the rear speakers away, fitted a 2channel amp driving the fronts, and will shortly be finishing it off with a sub.

    2000 A4 1.8T Sport Quattro Avant, Berry Pearl
    2000 A4 1.8T Sport Quattro Saloon, Black-ish
    1997 S4 - PPC £999 Challenge Track Car Build
    TD5 Land Rover Defender build


  26. #25
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    I thought that as the rear speakers are bigger than the fronts they'd be louder, and more prominent, so worth amplifying (and easier as nearer to the boot), whereas the fronts will be fine to just carry on running from the Bose amp.
    2000 Plate Audi S3 1.8T Santorin Blue - 275BHP on Custom Parsons Performance remap, Forge 007p DV, Red DogBush, Milltek non-res, Lowered 35mm Apex springs, Badger5 TIP/cone filter/heat shield, Powerflex'd, Large FMIC, Relentless Downpipe, Parsons Decat and lots of love.
    On gearbox number 4.
    Further modification to come..

  27. #26
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    These are the speakers I was looking at for the rear:

    ZERO ZX6 6.5" 165mm 2WAY 150W CAR DOOR DECK SPEAKERS | eBay
    2000 Plate Audi S3 1.8T Santorin Blue - 275BHP on Custom Parsons Performance remap, Forge 007p DV, Red DogBush, Milltek non-res, Lowered 35mm Apex springs, Badger5 TIP/cone filter/heat shield, Powerflex'd, Large FMIC, Relentless Downpipe, Parsons Decat and lots of love.
    On gearbox number 4.
    Further modification to come..

  28. #27
    "Stick a V8 in it!"

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    In a standard car the rears are useful for some bass fill, but you have a subwoofer so that completely negates the point of them for anything other than providing music for rear passengers.

    The Bose speakers are 2Ohm, and most aftermarket amps will happily drive a 2ohm load. Why not use those spare channels on your amp to drive the standard front speakers? Then either leave the bose amp running the rears or junk the rears and bose amp altogether

    2000 A4 1.8T Sport Quattro Avant, Berry Pearl
    2000 A4 1.8T Sport Quattro Saloon, Black-ish
    1997 S4 - PPC £999 Challenge Track Car Build
    TD5 Land Rover Defender build


  29. #28
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    Probably these for the front:

    eBay - The UK's Online Marketplace

    Just about suitable mounting depth and correct size I think?
    2000 Plate Audi S3 1.8T Santorin Blue - 275BHP on Custom Parsons Performance remap, Forge 007p DV, Red DogBush, Milltek non-res, Lowered 35mm Apex springs, Badger5 TIP/cone filter/heat shield, Powerflex'd, Large FMIC, Relentless Downpipe, Parsons Decat and lots of love.
    On gearbox number 4.
    Further modification to come..

  30. #29
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    I haven't taken a close look at the speaker wiring in the front of the car yet. Was trying to avoid having to get new wire through a plug in the door if I was plumbing in new front speakers and wiring, but I'm guessing that it has to be done.
    2000 Plate Audi S3 1.8T Santorin Blue - 275BHP on Custom Parsons Performance remap, Forge 007p DV, Red DogBush, Milltek non-res, Lowered 35mm Apex springs, Badger5 TIP/cone filter/heat shield, Powerflex'd, Large FMIC, Relentless Downpipe, Parsons Decat and lots of love.
    On gearbox number 4.
    Further modification to come..

  31. #30
    "Stick a V8 in it!"

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    All of the speaker wires will be at the bose amp in the boot. You wont need to run new wires thru to the doors. Just disconnect from the bose amp and connect to your 4channel.

    FWIW the stock bose speakers will almost certainly piss all over those ebay ones you've linked to once given some decent power.

    2000 A4 1.8T Sport Quattro Avant, Berry Pearl
    2000 A4 1.8T Sport Quattro Saloon, Black-ish
    1997 S4 - PPC £999 Challenge Track Car Build
    TD5 Land Rover Defender build


  32. #31
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    You need 2 way components for the fronts, not the coaxials you linked to.
    Driving standard speakers off the Bose amp will reduce the power even more. The Bose amp is expecting a 1.5 ohm load, and aftermarket speakers are pretty much all 4 ohm so you will have less than half the power going to them that you have now. As said already if you are replacing the speakers then you can just drive them all directly off the new HU, giving you 4 x 45w all round. Then use the single pre-out just for the sub amp. No adapters are then needed. All you need is 4 x 4m lengths of speaker cable running from the new HU back to the Bose amp, then link to the speakers from the Bose loom, or rewire the rears as you'll have the panels off anyway.
    The Bose rears are tiny little 4" speakers sourced from a prewar valve radio, but can be replaced with 6.5" coaxials.
    The Bose fronts are 4" as well but are the much meatier units derived from the Bose 802 PA cabs, and also used in the sub.
    The front tweeters are the same Nokia crap from the non Bose setup (Bose don't make tweeters)
    You will need adapter rings for all the speakers
    Personally I would leave everything as is, get a working Audi HU and just upgrade the sub. The whole setup will sound much better with a proper sub as you won't be pumping much bass through the cabin speakers.
    "How to tear apart the ties that bind, perhaps fcuk off might be too kind"
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  33. #32
    "Stick a V8 in it!"

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    I'm sure the bose speakers i pulled out the S4 i'm breaking were 2ohm, which most aftermarket amps should be able to drive. I'm sure of this because i was going to replace my front speakers with the bose fronts, but got a good offer on the full set so ended up selling them. If they really are 1.5 then you might struggle to find an amp that will power them, though there are amps out there that are stable down to 1ohm.

    Personally, i would never recommend keeping the Concert. Its an absolute pile of cack and a nice modern head unit with ipod/USB/SDCard compatibility will without doubt be much better.

    When i did the install in my Avant i was in a similar position to you, I didnt have bose, but was planning to install a sub and aftermarket HU (i already had the HU, sub and amp from an old car) and didnt want the head unit running the fronts and the cack factory amp running the rears. I decided that the only way forward was to do things properly, so i baught a 4 channel JBL GTO4000 and used that to run all four door speakers, added my sub in a fibreglass enclosure moulded to the side of the boot, along with the 300w amp i used to drive it in the old car.

    And quite frankly it sounds fantastic. I personally couldnt believe how good the standard paper nokia speakers could sound once given a bit of power from a proper amplifier, a clean signal from a decent HU and the sub doing the bass fill means i could clip the low end away from the door speakers so they're not receiving the low frequency signals they struggle to reproduce which further increases the clarity. I had originally planned to upgrade the speakers at some point, but with the setup i have now i dont see that happening anymore.

    This is the setup i aim to replicate in my saloon, in there so far i've got a 2 channel JBL running the front door speakers and a nice pioneer head unit. I ditched the rears as they were shelf mounted, and running shelf speakers with a sub in the boot is an exercise in futility. I hope to sort out a fibreglass enclosure for the sub shortly which should sort out the bass fill and round the system out nicely.

    2000 A4 1.8T Sport Quattro Avant, Berry Pearl
    2000 A4 1.8T Sport Quattro Saloon, Black-ish
    1997 S4 - PPC £999 Challenge Track Car Build
    TD5 Land Rover Defender build


  34. #33
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    Lots of new information to consider here. I'll have a sit-down and think about what I want to do when I am not at work

    Thanks guys!
    2000 Plate Audi S3 1.8T Santorin Blue - 275BHP on Custom Parsons Performance remap, Forge 007p DV, Red DogBush, Milltek non-res, Lowered 35mm Apex springs, Badger5 TIP/cone filter/heat shield, Powerflex'd, Large FMIC, Relentless Downpipe, Parsons Decat and lots of love.
    On gearbox number 4.
    Further modification to come..

  35. #34
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    Right, I've decided!

    For now I'm going to use the four Y-splitters and PC9-410 just so that I can get an aftermarket head unit, sub & amp in there.

    I'll continue running the stock speakers through the Bose sub&amp and just deal with the fact that I can't balance the front & rear volume.

    Next year, when it's not Christmas anymore, I'll invest in a proper 4-channel amp and re-wire the speakers into it, from where they enter the boot and before they go into the Bose amp. I will try and keep all of the existing wiring in tact so if I ever go to sell the car I can return it to standard for the new owner.

    Here's a diagram of what I am intending on doing at the moment, compared to what it is as standard.. From my understanding after the advice I have been given.

    I hope I am right! Excuse the poor quality, I was A) In a rush B) Am terrible at art. C) At work :P

    2000 Plate Audi S3 1.8T Santorin Blue - 275BHP on Custom Parsons Performance remap, Forge 007p DV, Red DogBush, Milltek non-res, Lowered 35mm Apex springs, Badger5 TIP/cone filter/heat shield, Powerflex'd, Large FMIC, Relentless Downpipe, Parsons Decat and lots of love.
    On gearbox number 4.
    Further modification to come..

  36. #35
    "Stick a V8 in it!"

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    Yeh thats about the simplest way to get it working for now, and is a useful stepping stone to Stage2

    2000 A4 1.8T Sport Quattro Avant, Berry Pearl
    2000 A4 1.8T Sport Quattro Saloon, Black-ish
    1997 S4 - PPC £999 Challenge Track Car Build
    TD5 Land Rover Defender build


  37. #36
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    Result!

    Now I wonder how long it'll take the PC9-410 and four Y-splitters to turn up with all this Christmas post going on..

    I ordered them yesterday lol
    2000 Plate Audi S3 1.8T Santorin Blue - 275BHP on Custom Parsons Performance remap, Forge 007p DV, Red DogBush, Milltek non-res, Lowered 35mm Apex springs, Badger5 TIP/cone filter/heat shield, Powerflex'd, Large FMIC, Relentless Downpipe, Parsons Decat and lots of love.
    On gearbox number 4.
    Further modification to come..

  38. #37
    Wind Deflector Trend-setter

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    Right.. Well I tried using the four Y splitters and managed to get the new head unit in by about 6 millimetres, with a good 6 or 7 inches of head unit hanging out. I turned it on to see if it worked and it made a horrid POP noise every time I pressed a button, whether it was tuning in the radio or changing tracks on the CD player.

    I then thought '**** this' and took out two of the Y splitters so that all that was connected to the system was the PC9-410 and 2 Y Splitters going into the back of the CD Player, along with the aerial and it's adapter. I turned it on again and once again it was making the horrible POP noise every time I push a button. That coupled with the Dacia adapter I've bought being absolutely GASH I am horrified, exhausted, angry and desperate. I am about to fit the old Concert head unit and put the car back together but was wondering before I do if I've done anything blatantly wrong. Can't upload pics ATM as I'm in my car sat outside a motor factors in case I needed more bits.

    ~ManOnShortTimeFrames.
    2000 Plate Audi S3 1.8T Santorin Blue - 275BHP on Custom Parsons Performance remap, Forge 007p DV, Red DogBush, Milltek non-res, Lowered 35mm Apex springs, Badger5 TIP/cone filter/heat shield, Powerflex'd, Large FMIC, Relentless Downpipe, Parsons Decat and lots of love.
    On gearbox number 4.
    Further modification to come..

  39. #38
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    As posted all over this site, and referred to in your original post above, popping is totally normal with some head units driving the Bose amp, so you haven't done anything wrong. You will unfortunatley have to use the garbage speaker input adapter (PC9-408), which will no doubt give you a whole bunch of different problems (noise & interference), but at least it gets rid of the popping and you will have front/rear fader control.
    "How to tear apart the ties that bind, perhaps fcuk off might be too kind"
    Alex Turner

  40. #39
    Wind Deflector Trend-setter

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    I didn't expect an ear drum shattering pop, that's for sure,

    I've removed all of the wiring I put in, and reverted it back to standard with the dodgy volume Concert CD player. I'm just going to get rid of all the stuff I bought and consider it >£100 and 7 hours wasted.

    Then buy another Concert unit (probably with dodgy volume control) from an eBay scumbag, cry some more for a while and then deal with it for a year or so until I get pissed off and bored with the whole car and sell it for **** all and piss off back to Jap cars that are more reliable and much less of a **** to work on.

    /Rant.

    Thanks for the help Andy and others.
    2000 Plate Audi S3 1.8T Santorin Blue - 275BHP on Custom Parsons Performance remap, Forge 007p DV, Red DogBush, Milltek non-res, Lowered 35mm Apex springs, Badger5 TIP/cone filter/heat shield, Powerflex'd, Large FMIC, Relentless Downpipe, Parsons Decat and lots of love.
    On gearbox number 4.
    Further modification to come..

  41. #40
    Wind Deflector Trend-setter

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    I'm back to pick my toys up. Sorry lol :P
    2000 Plate Audi S3 1.8T Santorin Blue - 275BHP on Custom Parsons Performance remap, Forge 007p DV, Red DogBush, Milltek non-res, Lowered 35mm Apex springs, Badger5 TIP/cone filter/heat shield, Powerflex'd, Large FMIC, Relentless Downpipe, Parsons Decat and lots of love.
    On gearbox number 4.
    Further modification to come..

 

 
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