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  1. #1
    got an S3 8L: living the dream

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    fitting my billy b8s this weekend...right choice?

    as the title says i am fitting my b8s this weekend and i already have the eibach pro kit springs fitted.

    Now it is generally believed on ASN that this combination is really good. (or so i understand)

    The eibach springs give a lowering of i think 20mm and 25mm. I have just been reading the Bilstein website and they say that the B8s work best in a 30-40 lowered vehicle and the the B6 shocks (the longer ones) are ok to a 30mm drop.

    This would suggest the eibach springs would be better paired with the B6 shocks not the B8.

    Can anyone comment or have experience of both B6 and B8 shocks?

    thanks
    2002 S3 8L AMK

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  3. #2
    JS1500's Avatar
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    IMO the B8s are superb and you'll most likely think so too.
    2001 Audi RS4 2.7 Bi-Turbo - Nogaro Blue

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  4. #3
    got an S3 8L: living the dream

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    just the answer (and reassurance) i was after.......THANKS! :D
    2002 S3 8L AMK

  5. #4
    sportquattro's Avatar
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    Fitted mine a few weeks ago and love them to bits, awesome improvement
    Last edited by sportquattro; 11th October 2011 at 23:01.
    1999 Audi S3 Superchips remap, Forge 007p, Phatnoise, Black Diamond Discs & DS2500 pads, N249 Deleted, Badger 5 TIP, Poly dogbone bush, Bilstein B8's and Eibach Springs.

    1986 Audi Coupe Quattro 2.2 restoration project

  6. #5
    Ginge's Avatar
    It's never fast enough !

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    Same as above, had mine on just over a month and the difference is incredible combined with h&r springs. The confidence I have through the bends has increased no end
    99' S3 APY currently just 007p, Badger 5 TIP, Customised Miltek non-res cat-back, Jetex cone, H&R Springs and Bilstein B8 Dampers ... 3" Downpipe, AH Fabrications FMIC and R-Tech Re-map on the way

  7. #6
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  8. #7
    jojo's Avatar
    S3 Drift King!

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    You won't regret it, take it from me, I've had 2 S3's with B8s on, I've also driven one with coilovers, it bounced all over the place, but it did handle like it was on rails!

    http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/a3-s3-f...g-springs.html



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  9. #8
    IGI
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    Yep best investment for the S3 had mine on for over a year now ....running eibach springs too...get the r32 arbs and you'll be sorted
    Handling is spot on without being harsh or bouncy

  10. #9
    fingermouse's Avatar
    thats me

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    B8`s & H&R`s here, feels like it should have out of the box imo
    red to red black to black blue to bits

  11. #10
    Mr.G's Avatar
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    Tried and tested setup, proven to be one of, if not the best, setups on the 8L S3. I went a stage further and had neuspeed ARBs 22mm front 19mm rear, with poly bushes and rear tie arms which enabled me to run Glens custom geometry figures. I can honestly say that I am still impressed with what the car can do, even after a year!

    My issue now is that the tie arms have worked loose, the welds near the wheel side of the arm have broken off and my MOT man says it's dangerous to drive. Going to weld them up tonight and contact the supplier.

    Hassle i could do without to be honest.

    G

  12. #11
    [Dave B]'s Avatar
    Rrrrrrrr-tech

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    Where'd you get your tie arms from?
    > S3 225 (03) - OEM+
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  13. #12
    MUSH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.G View Post
    Tried and tested setup, proven to be one of, if not the best, setups on the 8L S3. I went a stage further and had neuspeed ARBs 22mm front 19mm rear, with poly bushes and rear tie arms which enabled me to run Glens custom geometry figures. I can honestly say that I am still impressed with what the car can do, even after a year!

    My issue now is that the tie arms have worked loose, the welds near the wheel side of the arm have broken off and my MOT man says it's dangerous to drive. Going to weld them up tonight and contact the supplier.

    Hassle i could do without to be honest.

    G
    Where are these custom geometry specs...?

    And whos tie bars have you got?
    Audi S3 1.9 GT30....




    ....that is all

  14. #13
    got an S3 8L: living the dream

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    are adjustable tie bars really necessary? i read that the eibach pro kit didnt lower it sufficiently for adjustable tie bars to be needed to correct the camber. i have been running stock dampers and stock shocks with stock tie bars for the past year!
    2002 S3 8L AMK

  15. #14
    sportquattro's Avatar
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    With the Eibach Bilstein B8 kit mine needs the adjustable tie arms for the rear which I'll be ordering from that jolly nice S3Dave chap on here very shortly. Im curious as to how the S3's with the OEM gmbh suspension fitted fare with standard tie arms or did audi do a different tie arm for them that we dont know about? Any A-S.N members know the answer?
    1999 Audi S3 Superchips remap, Forge 007p, Phatnoise, Black Diamond Discs & DS2500 pads, N249 Deleted, Badger 5 TIP, Poly dogbone bush, Bilstein B8's and Eibach Springs.

    1986 Audi Coupe Quattro 2.2 restoration project

  16. #15
    got an S3 8L: living the dream

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    When you say "needs", do you mean the components won't fit together without an adjusted tie bar? Or just that it will give a rubbish geometry?
    2002 S3 8L AMK

  17. #16
    Alex C's Avatar
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    the geometry needs it. It'll all still fit without them. I needed the tie bars with the HnR springs which are only a 25mm drop
    Last edited by Alex C; 12th October 2011 at 20:52.
    Alex S3 AMK
    Bilstein B8s, H&R Springs, Neuspeed ARBs, Genuine 18" BBS LMs & LCR Brembos

  18. #17
    got an S3 8L: living the dream

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    bug*er.......so am i better off waiting to fit the b8s until i have the tie bars?.......can anyone recommend a set? Thanks
    2002 S3 8L AMK

  19. #18
    got an S3 8L: living the dream

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    and does that mean that fitting the b8s lower the car further than just fitting the eibach springs?.....cos i have been running eibach springs on standard shocks for a year now without adjustable tie bars
    2002 S3 8L AMK

  20. #19
    Alex C's Avatar
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    you can get away with no tie bars for a while i think. I think its hit a miss what sort of camber you end up with after you lower it. If it was me and i definitely couldn't get both the tie bars and shocks at the same time i would get the shocks just to keep me happy for a little while until i got the tie bars.

    I would get tie bars from S3Dave who is a member on here, you'll see him about;

    This is his thread showing you how to fit the tie bars. PM him for details; Rear Tie Arm Replacement-too adjustable camber arms "How To"

    These are the tie bars that i have on mine and when i got them fitted the mechanic was more interested in the tie bars than the billy b8s, HnRs or the roll bars! They are really well made.

    The shocks don't affect the ride height at all
    Alex S3 AMK
    Bilstein B8s, H&R Springs, Neuspeed ARBs, Genuine 18" BBS LMs & LCR Brembos

  21. #20
    got an S3 8L: living the dream

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    ok cool.....this may explain why my rear tyres were wearing more than my fronts over the last year and slightly unevenly.......still got 8k miles out of them before they needed replacing.

    is the handling better with adjustable tie arms (correct camber) or does the -ve camber actually help for grip in the corners (grip more normal to road surface than in shear).
    2002 S3 8L AMK

  22. #21
    Ian W's Avatar
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    I had the B8 / HR combo on my old S3, stupidly sold them when I was selling the car

    Hoping to get them again next year.

  23. #22
    Alex C's Avatar
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    negative camber helps in the corners, but i think it is preferential to have more negative camber on the front than the rear. So you want to be able to adjust the rear. Also if the cambers way off then the car doesnt handle great in a straight line. It'll also give you uneven tyre wear, you'll wear the insides out quicker
    Alex S3 AMK
    Bilstein B8s, H&R Springs, Neuspeed ARBs, Genuine 18" BBS LMs & LCR Brembos

  24. #23
    s3dave's Avatar
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    The only after-market tie arm that ive heard of failing is KWs (quite a few) and the standard one when the rose joint seizes...so it will be interesting to see what manufacturer MR .Gs was...

  25. #24
    s3dave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sportquattro View Post
    With the Eibach Bilstein B8 kit mine needs the adjustable tie arms for the rear which I'll be ordering from that jolly nice S3Dave chap on here very shortly. Im curious as to how the S3's with the OEM gmbh suspension fitted fare with standard tie arms or did audi do a different tie arm for them that we dont know about? Any A-S.N members know the answer?
    The GMBH kit was only 10mm drop IIRC....so probably within limits?

  26. #25
    superkarl's Avatar
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    i have 2.4 degree camber on the back of mine with standard shocks and springs. so i bought daves tie bars to adjust it as 2.4 degrees is just silly on a road car. perfect for the track, as in a corner more of the tire will be in contact, but on our bumpy roads you'l find the back end stepping left to right over bumps, not to mention tire wear on the inside.

    each car is different however, and everyone has different ideas as to whats acceptible, so fit your shocks and springs and see how it looks

    this is mine with what i see to be too much neg camber:


    and from the wear on the tires, its only the very inner row of tread thats in contact.

  27. #26
    got an S3 8L: living the dream

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    looks familiar and now it is being mentioned i think i have also seen my tires wearing unevenly a little last year.........gonna start saving the pennies for Dave's shiny gadget! :D
    2002 S3 8L AMK

  28. #27
    Mr.G's Avatar
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    Hello all!

    I will refrain from stating who supplies/manufactures them. It's hardly ethical of me to slate a product and invoke bad feeling when it's completely unnecessary. Besides the company have been nothing but great with anything that I've had queries on.

    What I will say though is that the Mechanic who looked at the car (failed it's MOT because of these) was shocked at the poor quality of the item. Stainless steel arms and brackets but the bolts where not of stainless steel quality so corroded and rusted, allowing the bracket to pull away from the arm. I was told that I was not allowed to take it away from the garage (test centre) in its current state as it was very dangerous.

    I had the bracket welded to the arm so that I may drive it to the supplier. I'm hoping they will oblige kindly (as it's been a headache and worry)to resolve the issue and to change them, as it's an inconvenience and I have a fair way to drive that's all, which is another worry.

    The custom geometry on the car is as per Glens setup, Ess_three, tried, tested and according to glen proven best setup on his S3, despite multiple components being used, i.e Eibach, coilovers. The B8 and H&R setup speak for themselves, you can tell a good setup instantly and it was like this for me when I jumped in the car after it was all done. I love the way it drives.

    I can forward the Geo setup/figures for anyone who wants it. Just PM me, trust me it's worth it for those who have adjustable tie arms. I debated for about 2 months before handing over around 5.5K (had other things done too) for the work to be carried out.

    Thanks

    G

    P.s Pictures to follow of the cars stance when properly setup

  29. #28
    got an S3 8L: living the dream

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    I think I will be getting a adjustable tie bar off Dave (if he is willing), but if i were wanting a cheaper route than adjustable tie arms, are shims or eccentric bushes any good?:

    SuperPro Uprated Suspension Bushes, Audi S3 8L, 1.8 Turbo APY, AMK, BAM engine codes (1997 - 2003) Rear track control arm upper or lower inner bush kit with camber correction (2 kits required per car!) just have visions of the eccentric insert rotating and changing the camber as you go round a corner!

    are shims available for the s3?
    2002 S3 8L AMK

  30. #29
    Alex C's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by s3dave View Post
    The only after-market tie arm that ive heard of failing is KWs (quite a few) and the standard one when the rose joint seizes...so it will be interesting to see what manufacturer MR .Gs was...
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.G View Post
    I will refrain from stating who supplies/manufactures them. It's hardly ethical of me to slate a product and invoke bad feeling when it's completely unnecessary. Besides the company have been nothing but great with anything that I've had queries on.

    What I will say though is that the Mechanic who looked at the car (failed it's MOT because of these) was shocked at the poor quality of the item. Stainless steel arms and brackets but the bolts where not of stainless steel quality so corroded and rusted, allowing the bracket to pull away from the arm. I was told that I was not allowed to take it away from the garage (test centre) in its current state as it was very dangerous.
    It’s not hard to dig around for the answer to find who it was.

    IMO given that the state the item was "very dangerous" it would probably be a good idea to share what product it is you are talking about so others with the same product are aware of the issue you talk of?
    Alex S3 AMK
    Bilstein B8s, H&R Springs, Neuspeed ARBs, Genuine 18" BBS LMs & LCR Brembos

  31. #30
    Alex C's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazza55 View Post
    I think I will be getting a adjustable tie bar off Dave (if he is willing), but if i were wanting a cheaper route than adjustable tie arms, are shims or eccentric bushes any good?:

    SuperPro Uprated Suspension Bushes, Audi S3 8L, 1.8 Turbo APY, AMK, BAM engine codes (1997 - 2003) Rear track control arm upper or lower inner bush kit with camber correction (2 kits required per car!) just have visions of the eccentric insert rotating and changing the camber as you go round a corner!

    are shims available for the s3?
    they're not adjustable though
    Alex S3 AMK
    Bilstein B8s, H&R Springs, Neuspeed ARBs, Genuine 18" BBS LMs & LCR Brembos

  32. #31
    Mr.G's Avatar
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    Excuse the dirty sl4g, I live on a building site (new home), so when it's wet, car = dirty!



    As you can see slight camber on the rear wheels, not loads but enough for a nice bit of grip.



    4 X New tyres (very very good I must say, so glad I got them, had the normal asymmetrics before fitting these).





    Some others that I though't i'd share.





    After I performed a GTechniq Detail using full product range (inc C1)











    G

  33. #32
    Mr.G's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex C View Post
    It’s not hard to dig around for the answer to find who it was.

    IMO given that the state the item was "very dangerous" it would probably be a good idea to share what product it is you are talking about so others with the same product are aware of the issue you talk of?
    Thanks for pointing that out lol...as if I didn't already know. I specifically said I wasn't about to publicly name and shame a company without letting them investigate and at least reply to my e-mail first. Fair is fair...is it not?

    We all know what product we are taking about as I've already said
    My issue now is that the tie arms have worked loose, the welds near the wheel side of the arm have broken off and my MOT man says it's dangerous to drive. Going to weld them up tonight and contact the supplier.

    Hassle i could do without to be honest.
    If others have purchased tie arms for the S3 then I personally would be checking them for signs of wear, faults. You'd know if you had a failure. I'll be keeping an eye on mine after this scare, even when new ones are fitted, i'll be doing my checks.

    G

  34. #33
    Westy's Avatar
    Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    Hi G, long time. Have you been in contact with the supplier? I know where you got them from and I'm sure that company would like to know. They may also offer you another set or some form of compensation, maybe.
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  35. #34
    Alex C's Avatar
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    thats fair enough, but personally i would want to know
    Alex S3 AMK
    Bilstein B8s, H&R Springs, Neuspeed ARBs, Genuine 18" BBS LMs & LCR Brembos

  36. #35
    Mr.G's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Westy View Post
    Hi G, long time. Have you been in contact with the supplier? I know where you got them from and I'm sure that company would like to know. They may also offer you another set or some form of compensation, maybe.
    Hiya Wes!

    Yea long time mate. Have been in contact and am awaiting a call! Hopefully it'll be good news.

    G

  37. #36
    DPM
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    One of the best setups available for the S3 but always best and sometimes essential to fit tie bars when lowering them.

    Damian @ DPM Performance
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  38. #37
    mk1chopper's Avatar
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    The bush's are an option but for the price that dave sell's the tie bars for I'd just get them instead and have it setup correctly.

  39. #38
    Mr.G's Avatar
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    Update:

    After speaking with Awesome GTI about the faulty tie arms I arranged for them to be replaced. As they were out of warranty period there was little Awesome could do in terms of replacements. However, what Awesome offered was to discount a new pair for me and offer to fit them free of charge. They also carried out my custom geometry setup for free as a good will gesture. I was happy with this and could understand the position they were in. Although it did worry me that such an essential component on the car was in such a poor shape just over 1 year on, not Awesome's fault as to me it is a manufacturing defect in the supplied part.

    So car is now back with me in tip top, I have had poly bushes fitted on the rear now which means the whole car has them throughout. It does feel a whole load better than it did, which I didn't think was possible given the time and money i've invested in getting it to a good standard, it just goes to show that bushes make a huge difference to how a car feels and performs.

    I want to give a shout out to John, Al and Hassan of Awesome as they looked after me and the car for the fourth visit.

    G

  40. #39
    Westy's Avatar
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    But is someone going to be reviewing the product? You could end up in the same situation in another years time.
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  41. #40
    colicabcadam
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    sorry, but 1 year warrenty on an important mechanical part, are you having a laugh?

    it's clearly not safe and clearly not fit for purpose, you should not have to pay a penny to have the issue fixed, it's life threatening, not just to the occupants of the car, but to other road users too

    if i were you i'd have a ccj on the suppliers arse straight away

    you believe they've done you a favour - they have not, they've charged you to correct and replace a poorly constructed item that they sold to you in the first place !!!

 

 
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