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  1. #1
    Nyteryda

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    Any recommendations on where to get big turbo kit fitted ?

    Hello, have been piecing together a big turbo kit over the last few months and now thinking about trying to find a reputable, professional and more importantly experienced place to get it all fitted.. i live in surrey for reference but i suppose transporting the car wouldnt be to much of a problem (has slight smoking from exhaust issue so would prefer not to drive it). I guess it may also be beneficial to get the work done at the same place that is mapping it ? to be honest the mapping is the great unknown for me at the moment as I have no real knowledge in that area

    in case anyone is interested here are the relevant 'engine' parts i have already fitted :

    remap (unknown)
    standard k04 turbo
    simota induction kit
    forge tip
    forge hard charge pipe
    forge intercooler pipes
    ross machine inlet manifold
    440cc injectors
    front mount intercooler
    n75j valve
    forge 007p diverter valve
    full exhaust


    And the parts I have that need installing

    Garrett gt2871r (460bhp capable version)
    turbo line kit
    atp wastegate actuator and bracket
    Cast T25 flange exhaust manifold
    wossner 82.5mm low compression piston kit taking displacement to 1.9l
    forged rods
    manual boost controller
    4bar fpr
    ecs stage 3 clutch kit
    fidanza lightweight flywheel
    acl race rod and main bearings
    heavy duty big end bearings
    cambelt kit
    water pump
    oil pump
    v band downpipe adapter
    catch tank

    Also, any ideas on what sort of power figures i could be looking at ? I would really like to see at least 350-400bhp to make all the hassle seem worth it !

    cheers

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  3. #2
    <tuffty/>'s Avatar
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    Shameless plug but Bill at Badger 5 has a lot of experience in this kind of thing... should be said though 460bhp from a GT2871r? 360bhp yeah, not 460bhp...

    GT3076r is the sorta turbo you need for 460bhp... and T3 flange rather than T25 for that kinda HP too...

    Mat20vt had a similar setup...
    A3 Quattro build thread

    370bhp IIRC...

    <tuffty/>
    Silver 2001 AMK S3. Silver alcantara interior... now with added powarrrrrrrr, torques. VAGCOM + KII-USB. >> My build thread...

  4. #3
    Nyteryda

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    yea i understand that 460 isnt realistic, its just thats what the garrett site says it can do with its spec .. to be honest i am kinda hoping for closer to 400bhp though with the larger displacement (think mat20vt had standard bore ?)

  5. #4
    Broken Byzan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyteryda View Post
    yea i understand that 460 isnt realistic, its just thats what the garrett site says it can do with its spec .. to be honest i am kinda hoping for closer to 400bhp though with the larger displacement (think mat20vt had standard bore ?)
    Yours has been rebored hs it?

    EDIT, so you would need the block machined too, gotcha
    Can't see mention of it in the spec at the top

    GT2871r will be realistically be screaming its knackers off to brake the 400 BHP limit due to the restrictions imposed on the smaller format flanged mani and the hotside.
    Last edited by Broken Byzan; 15th September 2011 at 20:06.

  6. #5
    16Klappe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyteryda View Post
    yea i understand that 460 isnt realistic, its just thats what the garrett site says it can do with its spec .. to be honest i am kinda hoping for closer to 400bhp though with the larger displacement (think mat20vt had standard bore ?)
    That is the max the turbo would take, you would never run it like that for long.

    As Tuffty says basically.

    Think about using a 2.0TFSI 92.8mm crank and 82.5mm pistons to make 1984cc. Stroking = Win + extra power at lower boost.

    Also you will want 550+ CC injectors to be running 380WHP to roughly 430WHP, I'd recommend the Genesis range with plug and play connectors, £97 on JBS IIRC.
    Last edited by 16Klappe; 15th September 2011 at 20:11.
    I quite often say I'm going to do things.

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  7. #6
    <tuffty/>'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyteryda View Post
    yea i understand that 460 isnt realistic, its just thats what the garrett site says it can do with its spec .. to be honest i am kinda hoping for closer to 400bhp though with the larger displacement (think mat20vt had standard bore ?)
    GT2871r just hasn't got the capacity tbh... 460bhp is prob more to do with higher displacement engines and not on a lowly 1.8....

    GT3071r if you want 400bhp...

    Quote Originally Posted by 16Klappe View Post
    That is the max the turbo would take, you would never run it like that for long.

    As Tuffty says basically.

    Think about using a 2.0TFSI 92.8mm crank and 82.5mm pistons to make 1984cc. Stroking = Win + extra power at lower boost.

    Also you will want 550+ CC injectors to be running 380WHP to roughly 430WHP, I'd recommend the Genesis range with plug and play connectors, £97 on JBS IIRC.
    Go 630cc minimum for 400bhp to give you overhead... tbh even stroking it won't knock the power up much..

    Had a 1.9ltr Ibiza in with every conceivable add on (ported small port though) and that made 447bhp but was running lots of boost and was pretty much maxed out..

    The GT3071r Mk2 Golf we did recently was a 1.8 but was on large port, large port AGU inlet mani (not SEM or anything special like that) and that made a little more power... prob would have made more with a SEM...

    These were both on tubular race manifolds with T3 flanges... in contrast the T25 just won't flow enough, I know this first hand as its the setup I currently have... I am changing my hotside soon to a higher flowing one as the GT28 hotside just isn't big enough...

    On the spec you list you will be struggling to get close to 400bp and 'if' you did it would be running flat out...

    I have done a lot of work on this kinda thing over the past couple of years and have documented what works and what doesn't...

    I suspect if you haven't got the largest ebay FMIC they do then you will need to change that too...

    Read my thread for a little more info and have a look at Badger 5's section on SCN as the Golf and Ibiza will be there...

    <tuffty/>
    Silver 2001 AMK S3. Silver alcantara interior... now with added powarrrrrrrr, torques. VAGCOM + KII-USB. >> My build thread...

  8. #7
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    Have you a budget for fitting all of this stuff?

  9. #8
    16Klappe's Avatar
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    Out of interest Tuffty, would you say injectors are best run at 85% duty cycle? Was your 1.9 1847/ 82.5mm or 1870/ 83mm?

    Sent from my Jew Machine using Tapatalk
    Last edited by 16Klappe; 15th September 2011 at 20:37.
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  10. #9
    <tuffty/>'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 16Klappe View Post
    Out of interest Tuffty, would you say injectors are best run at 85% duty cycle?

    Sent from my Jew Machine using Tapatalk
    duty cycle as far as I am aware doesn't make a difference in this context but tbh I don't know enough about it to comment..

    If you want to work it all out of course try this

    Stealth 316 - Injector Duty Cycle Calculation

    Larger injectors can make idle lumpier and part throttle a little iffy but... in my limited experience spray pattern makes a big difference for running (and ultimately power)... my 630cc Deka's idle sweet as a nut...

    <tuffty/>
    Silver 2001 AMK S3. Silver alcantara interior... now with added powarrrrrrrr, torques. VAGCOM + KII-USB. >> My build thread...

  11. #10
    Broken Byzan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 16Klappe View Post
    Out of interest Tuffty, would you say injectors are best run at 85% duty cycle? Was your 1.9 1847/ 82.5mm or 1870/ 83mm?<br>
    <br>
    Sent from my Jew Machine using Tapatalk
    <br><br>The less DC they run within reason the better. 550 is Hybrid territory injectors. I would expect to need 630cc's as a minimum and an upgraded pump to ensure they can be supplied with the required fuel demand.

  12. #11
    16Klappe's Avatar
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    Ahh, cheers for the link Tuffty. The last time I had to think of injectors was on my 205 gti and I cocked that right up!

    I am planning my hybrid KO3s and was considering wether it is actually worth buying a set of 550cc Genesis injectors. Backdraft are doing them at £250 a set -VAT at the moment which is tempting.

    Luckily for me I only need the turbo, injectors and mapping so I cant afford not to buy new really!

    Last but not least before I stop spamming this thread, how would you rate CR? Ive heard mixed reports as to the reason their prices are a little low.

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  13. #12
    finesse's Avatar
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    Fontains
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    Ibiza Cupra TDI

    Gone:

    Audi C5 RS 6 - Stage 2
    Audi 8L S3 - Revo'd

  14. #13
    <tuffty/>'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 16Klappe View Post
    ... how would you rate CR? Ive heard mixed reports as to the reason their prices are a little low....
    humm... well... they have pulled their finger out a bit regarding some of the issues Bill was having with the hybrids so the answer is to check the turbo over properly before committing to fitting it just to be sure... they do seem to want to put it all right

    <tuffty/>
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  15. #14
    Nyteryda

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    gaddammitt .. im really starting to second guess the turbo choice i made, i dont want to be in that situation of upgrading again ... i'm focusing on power to weight ratios and i want 300bhp/tonne which at the moment would require 405bhp approx

    i managed to shed around 30kgs by changing the seriously heavy recaros for lightweights, approx 15kgs from full sound system removal, approx 15kgs from spare wheel etc (installed runflats) which brings the car down to around 1.35 tonnes without a driver.. i have had it weighed before at a weighbridge so I know it weighs roughly 1425kgs without a driver .. (1500 exactly with driver)

    further plans are to install an alloy front upper strut brace to replace the standard steel lump (dying to know what it weighs).. lightweight battery.. removal of headlight washer system (flushing off the annoying flaps anyway) and anything else i can think of that wont affect my enjoyment of the car .. toying with ditching the air-con system as i am happy to live without it and not bothered about resale value (yet ! hehe)

    i know it might all sound petty but it does add up and does make the car perform better .. i have almost removed an average males weight from the car already without compromising too much and sold all the bits to buy more mods !

    i'll probably be happy with my turbo choice anyway to be honest (as long as i can slay m3's !!).. its just the longer the process takes the more time there is for doubt to creep in and as you may be able to tell the doubt has crept quite a way already ! I think half the trouble is I have the 400 figure stuck in my head

    just need to get someone to fit it all and get it over and done with !

  16. #15
    Nyteryda

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    Quote Originally Posted by Byzan View Post
    Have you a budget for fitting all of this stuff?
    i sure have .. the longer it takes me to get round to having it fitted the more worried i get about spending it on something else

  17. #16
    Nyteryda

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    Quote Originally Posted by finesse View Post
    Fontains
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    All around the South East

    yes i have seen some of these but do they offer fitting of customer supplied parts i wonder.. in fact i have just got a quote back for some of the work

    To remove and reinstall complete Audi s3 engine: 7.5 hours @ £47 p/h = £ 352.50 + vat

    To strip, rebuild using your components (inclusive of transportation to machine shop for block) : 8 hours =£ 376.00 + vat

    Machine shop charges will be around the £110 mark

    I would have to know what oil lines downpipe etc you have for your turbo before I could estimate how long it will take to install. If it is a bolt on complete kit it shouldn’t take more than a few hours. Obviously any parts you don’t have will be extra to these prices and they are subject to vat.

  18. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyteryda View Post
    gaddammitt .. im really starting to second guess the turbo choice i made, i dont want to be in that situation of upgrading again ... i'm focusing on power to weight ratios and i want 300bhp/tonne which at the moment would require 405bhp approx

    i managed to shed around 30kgs by changing the seriously heavy recaros for lightweights, approx 15kgs from full sound system removal, approx 15kgs from spare wheel etc (installed runflats) which brings the car down to around 1.35 tonnes without a driver.. i have had it weighed before at a weighbridge so I know it weighs roughly 1425kgs without a driver .. (1500 exactly with driver)

    further plans are to install an alloy front upper strut brace to replace the standard steel lump (dying to know what it weighs).. lightweight battery.. removal of headlight washer system (flushing off the annoying flaps anyway) and anything else i can think of that wont affect my enjoyment of the car .. toying with ditching the air-con system as i am happy to live without it and not bothered about resale value (yet ! hehe)

    i know it might all sound petty but it does add up and does make the car perform better .. i have almost removed an average males weight from the car already without compromising too much and sold all the bits to buy more mods !

    i'll probably be happy with my turbo choice anyway to be honest (as long as i can slay m3's !!).. its just the longer the process takes the more time there is for doubt to creep in and as you may be able to tell the doubt has crept quite a way already ! I think half the trouble is I have the 400 figure stuck in my head

    just need to get someone to fit it all and get it over and done with !
    I know the feeling... still chasing 400bhp myself... I know the turbo cartridge is capable as its the same cartridge thats in the Ibiza and Golf making mid 400's its just the hardware around it thats been letting me down...

    Bill has had an Leon in for mapping that had a GT30 on a T25 flange cast mani, internal gate, 2ltr and WMI etc... lots of spec but struggled to get over 400bhp and when it did was flat out...

    T3 GT3071r on a decent mani, large port head (no real need for porting) valves/springs (as you will need it to rev to nearly 8k to get the best from it) will make 400bhp all day long... the Golf is making mid 400's at 24psi...

    As I mentioned earlier I am now going to junk my hotside and internal gate for a higher flowing T25 (as I want to retain my underslung mani) and external gate which I am hoping will get me over the 400 mark... I've changed just about everything else lol...

    <tuffty/>
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  19. #18
    Broken Byzan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyteryda View Post
    yes i have seen some of these but do they offer fitting of customer supplied parts i wonder.. in fact i have just got a quote back for some of the work

    To remove and reinstall complete Audi s3 engine: 7.5 hours @ £47 p/h = £ 352.50 + vat

    To strip, rebuild using your components (inclusive of transportation to machine shop for block) : 8 hours =£ 376.00 + vat

    Machine shop charges will be around the £110 mark

    I would have to know what oil lines downpipe etc you have for your turbo before I could estimate how long it will take to install. If it is a bolt on complete kit it shouldn’t take more than a few hours. Obviously any parts you don’t have will be extra to these prices and they are subject to vat.
    That's quite a clear pricing structure. Its the little things like fabricating oil and water lines as stated that can take time, same as fabbing the downpipe for the exhaust to make it miss the prop, subframe and still mate to the exhaust system. These odds and sods make the difference. I have seen many jobs that "just" need fitting, but once the turbo is on, nothing else will work , or foul other components.

    What about mapping too, that's a custom map you will need at £xxx pounds too, Assuming the engine electronics are all up to spec, lambdas are not borderline, or mafs reading low etc

  20. #19
    Nyteryda

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    Quote Originally Posted by Byzan View Post
    That's quite a clear pricing structure. Its the little things like fabricating oil and water lines as stated that can take time, same as fabbing the downpipe for the exhaust to make it miss the prop, subframe and still mate to the exhaust system. These odds and sods make the difference. I have seen many jobs that "just" need fitting, but once the turbo is on, nothing else will work , or foul other components.

    What about mapping too, that's a custom map you will need at £xxx pounds too, Assuming the engine electronics are all up to spec, lambdas are not borderline, or mafs reading low etc
    my comments regarding mapping are in the first post !!! i am aware of the potential cost of this, however, i have no technical knowledge in the area. Obviously as the prices above for some of the work are quotes they may be subject to change, and obviously any extra parts or fabrication time will add to the bill.. already replaced both lambdas and maf in last few months

  21. #20
    Nyteryda

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    the guy who quoted the above prices said the car would be transported to jabbasport for mapping but no real indication of cost

  22. #21
    mk1chopper's Avatar
    Missing the S3

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    Have you contacted Jabba about doing all of the work?

 

 

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