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Thread: Cracked Rear Anti-roll Bar...

  1. #1
    Ryan_W's Avatar
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    Cracked Rear Anti-roll Bar...

    Evening folks.

    Had my coil packs changed today and with the free health check, Audi told me that I had a crack in my rear anti-roll bar coupling.

    I understand that upgrading to a thicker bar will improve the handling of the car, but what one shall I go for?

    Also, is it worth getting the bushes changed for some Powerflex items or something similar?

    Cheers,

    Ryan
    '02 Audi S3 - 270bhp / 283lb ft - SOLD
    '08 BMW 135i - 306bhp / 295lb ft
    '12 VW Golf GTD 170 - 168bhp / 258lb ft


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  3. #2
    S3Steve's Avatar
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    Ive recently changed to R32 ones mate which is quite a common upgrade for our cars mate, work well imho.

    Have a read of the sticky on suspension mods mate, there is some good info in there

    S3 Suspension and Set-up Guide
    Last edited by S3Steve; 24th May 2011 at 20:00.
    2007 A3 TDI 170 S Line
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  4. #3
    Ryan_W's Avatar
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    Thanks mate.

    Audi quoted me £136 for a new bar, don't think that was fitted.

    I'll probably go for the Neuspeed 25mm rear bar from Awesome when my pay cheque comes in.

    Shall I just replace with new OEM bushes or upgrade to poly?
    '02 Audi S3 - 270bhp / 283lb ft - SOLD
    '08 BMW 135i - 306bhp / 295lb ft
    '12 VW Golf GTD 170 - 168bhp / 258lb ft


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    Prawn's Avatar
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    if you're changing the bar for a larger OEM one, then the OEM bushes arn't going to fit are they matey?

    Pretty much any aftermarket ARB you can buy will come with suitable poly bushes anyway, so I'd just choose a bar you want to go for it!

    Do neuspeed do a 25mm rear for the 4wd chassis?

    on the FWD chassis, 28mm rear is considered large, on the 4wd chassis I thought anything over 19mm rear was considered huge?

    The neuspeed rear S3 arb I sold to Ginge a few months back was 19mm, same as the R32 bar.

    if you want to really improve handling, you need to change the balance of the bars from to rear, so the rear bar will need to be a bigger step up than the front, R32 bars don't really do this, so whilst reducing roll, they won't change the understeering nature of the barge.

    Getting a proportinally larger rear bar will change the balance though, and make it drive properly!
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Prawns TFSI Turbo'd 1.8T Track Car

    But I know nothing so ignore me.

  6. #5
    JS1500's Avatar
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    In short, get an R32 rear ARB and bushes.
    2001 Audi RS4 2.7 Bi-Turbo - Nogaro Blue

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    2003 Audi S3 - Dolphin Grey; SOLD!

  7. #6
    S3Steve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan_W View Post
    Thanks mate.

    Audi quoted me £136 for a new bar, don't think that was fitted.

    I'll probably go for the Neuspeed 25mm rear bar from Awesome when my pay cheque comes in.

    Shall I just replace with new OEM bushes or upgrade to poly?
    The Neuspeed 25mm arb is for 2wd chassis mate, id save yourself some money and go to vw and get the r32 bars rear one is £90+vat and the front is 89+vat. If your only gonna do the rear one mate going from the standard 14mm rear to 19mm will have quite an effect on handling. By changing to both r32 bars your still altering the balance as its a 5mm increase on the rear and only 3mmm increase on the front (reduces understeer). If you only want to do the rear there is another option the golf v6 4 motion uses a 16mm rear arb which a few of the tt boys use as an upgrade while keeping the standard 20mm front, this will still make the car less understeery. As for fitting mate the rear is an easy diy job only requiring dropping the backbox and heat shield then simple bolt off bolt on job. The front is a bit more of a pain involving dropping the subframe.
    Last edited by S3Steve; 25th May 2011 at 21:06.
    2007 A3 TDI 170 S Line
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  8. #7
    Ryan_W's Avatar
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    25mm front and 22mm rear ok to go for gents?
    '02 Audi S3 - 270bhp / 283lb ft - SOLD
    '08 BMW 135i - 306bhp / 295lb ft
    '12 VW Golf GTD 170 - 168bhp / 258lb ft


  9. #8
    got an S3 8L: living the dream

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    I believe the eibach front and rear kit to do this "balance change".........22mm at the front and 25mm at the rear......is this what you mean Prawn? I am sure i recall you commenting on it recently as a nice set that you have on your daily?

    I am getting this kit in a month or so........cant wait!

    NB: Audi told me i had a "cracked rear arb" last year when i got it serviced. I have since jacked it up myself and had a darn good look with a few other people in the know and we can find nothing wrong with it......beware of the stealerships!...they wanted £450 to replace and fit just a rear arb!

    Quote Originally Posted by Prawn View Post
    if you're changing the bar for a larger OEM one, then the OEM bushes arn't going to fit are they matey?

    Pretty much any aftermarket ARB you can buy will come with suitable poly bushes anyway, so I'd just choose a bar you want to go for it!

    Do neuspeed do a 25mm rear for the 4wd chassis?

    on the FWD chassis, 28mm rear is considered large, on the 4wd chassis I thought anything over 19mm rear was considered huge?

    The neuspeed rear S3 arb I sold to Ginge a few months back was 19mm, same as the R32 bar.

    if you want to really improve handling, you need to change the balance of the bars from to rear, so the rear bar will need to be a bigger step up than the front, R32 bars don't really do this, so whilst reducing roll, they won't change the understeering nature of the barge.

    Getting a proportinally larger rear bar will change the balance though, and make it drive properly!
    2002 S3 8L AMK

  10. #9
    Prawn's Avatar
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    the 22F 25R setup is perfect for a FWD daily, but this has a rear beam setup, not proper IRS like the S3, so the sizing required is totally different.#

    On an S3 it seems that 22F 19R is the way to go.

    Either way, what you're really wanting to do, is increase the rear in proportion to the front. so if you up the front size, you need to up the rear MORE to improve the balance of the car.

    Remember, a bigger front bar will only induce understeer!
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Prawns TFSI Turbo'd 1.8T Track Car

    But I know nothing so ignore me.

  11. #10
    got an S3 8L: living the dream

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    Excellent - finally a 1 liner clearly stating a recommendation for front and rear .....i have read so loose opinion in other threads....thanks for the summary! Much appreciated.

    so based on your 22F 19R recommendations, would you agree with/confirm these selections, Prawn? I have read Neuspeed is the way to go based on durability.

    Neuspeed Rear Anti-Roll Bar 19mm R32+V64mo Mk4/TT 4WD/S3: Awesome - Neuspeed Rear Anti-Roll Bar 19mm R32+V64mo Mk4/TT 4WD/S3

    &

    Neuspeed Front Anti-Roll Bar 22mm R32/TT/LCR/VRS/S3: Awesome - Neuspeed Front Anti-Roll Bar 22mm R32/TT/LCR/VRS/S3


    Quote Originally Posted by Prawn View Post
    the 22F 25R setup is perfect for a FWD daily, but this has a rear beam setup, not proper IRS like the S3, so the sizing required is totally different.#

    On an S3 it seems that 22F 19R is the way to go.

    Either way, what you're really wanting to do, is increase the rear in proportion to the front. so if you up the front size, you need to up the rear MORE to improve the balance of the car.

    Remember, a bigger front bar will only induce understeer!
    2002 S3 8L AMK

  12. #11
    Prawn's Avatar
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    Yes, that is the setup that Glen used years ago during all his vast testing, and came back reporting that it bought about the best change in handling.

    I've driven a car with that exact setup (JoJos) and the handling was superb. Far better than the standard S3 arrangement, and much less unsteery than a car simply fitted with R32 F and R bars.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Prawns TFSI Turbo'd 1.8T Track Car

    But I know nothing so ignore me.

  13. #12
    Ryan_W's Avatar
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    Cheers lads...

    So should I go for the R32 F+R set-up or go the Neuspeed route for a little extra redoes?

    You talk of 22mm front and 19mm rear, but Neuspeed also do a 22mm rear. Would this not be better suited, matching the thickness of the front 22mm bar? I'm just thinking of the understeer issue and how best to resolve it.

    Cheers,

    Ryan
    '02 Audi S3 - 270bhp / 283lb ft - SOLD
    '08 BMW 135i - 306bhp / 295lb ft
    '12 VW Golf GTD 170 - 168bhp / 258lb ft


  14. #13
    bazil's Avatar
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    Just a side note, my audi main dealer told me 6 years and 60,000 miles ago that my rear ARB was cracked, funy how it's passed every MOT and inspection ever since, I've still never replaced it.

    Times must be hard and they need your money lol.
    chazza55 likes this.

  15. #14
    Prawn's Avatar
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    To give slightly different advice to the usual, I'd suggest going as big on the rear as you dare Ryan!

    Definitely DO NOT fit the R32 F and R bars, this will make it flatter, but do nothing for the understeer!

    For the average bloke I'd not recommend a huge rear bar, as it really does change the balance of the car quite a lot

    However, if you're a very keen driver, as I'm guessing you are if you've been to the ring a load of times and your missus drives a 135.

    Go for a bigger rear bar it's more fun!
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Prawns TFSI Turbo'd 1.8T Track Car

    But I know nothing so ignore me.

  16. #15
    Ryan_W's Avatar
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    Indeed I am a very keen driver and have ESP off pretty much all the time....

    So would you say 22mm front and 22mm rear then?

    22mm is the biggest rear bar I can find sold separately from the front.

    Eibach do a kit comprising of 26mm front & 24mm rear, but I think that's going to be overkill on the front?

    Cheers pal,

    Ryan
    Last edited by Ryan_W; 3rd June 2011 at 08:35.
    '02 Audi S3 - 270bhp / 283lb ft - SOLD
    '08 BMW 135i - 306bhp / 295lb ft
    '12 VW Golf GTD 170 - 168bhp / 258lb ft


  17. #16
    Prawn's Avatar
    My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    I've got a 26 on the front of my daily currently, as it was cheap and I needed something, and to be honest, I think it's too big.

    the problem is, I've not had much experience of larger rear bars on S3's, other than to say JoJos with 22f and 19r felt good, much more balanecd than a normal S3, but I think it could benefit from a larger rear bar again, so i reckon 22f+R would be pretty awesome.

    the eibach 26/24 kit is still a much bigger proportional increase, with just 2mm different.

    To look at it another way, if they're adjustable, you can always set the front to hard and the rear to soft if you find it's TOO oversteery.

    I think Ginge is currently running a 19mm rear neuspeed he got from me, and a standard 19mm front bar. might be worth asking him how his feels
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Prawns TFSI Turbo'd 1.8T Track Car

    But I know nothing so ignore me.

  18. #17
    [Dave B]'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prawn View Post
    I think Ginge is currently running a 19mm rear neuspeed he got from me, and a standard 19mm front bar. might be worth asking him how his feels
    If Ginge is running 19mm front and 19mm rear I'd be really interested to hear his views on it!
    > S3 225 (03) - OEM+
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  19. #18
    danger S3's Avatar
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    i was thinking of just putting the 16mm one from a 4motion golf on the rear of mine as i don't take it on tracks and have the standard suspension setup which i wouldnt wanna break by putting too big a bar on and it unloading into the suspension and bang

    i take it the 16mm 4motion one is just a straight swap?
    all u need is the arb, mounts, brackets and the connecting links?

  20. #19
    Alex C's Avatar
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    i went with neuspeed 22F 19R, its so much better than standard, i drive with ESP off all the time what ever the weather and its much more enjoyable and i would say safer because you find you make it round the corner in better shape than standard. I think i can feel a hint of the rear around the corners if i push it, but it never comes out (maybe im not keen enough ) so if your a keen driver then try 22 F&R. And report back...
    Alex S3 AMK
    Bilstein B8s, H&R Springs, Neuspeed ARBs, Genuine 18" BBS LMs & LCR Brembos

  21. #20
    Alex C's Avatar
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    And the neuspeeds come with bushes suppplied...

    (note S3Daves tie arm and Billys B8 ), appologies for the carpet!



    Alex S3 AMK
    Bilstein B8s, H&R Springs, Neuspeed ARBs, Genuine 18" BBS LMs & LCR Brembos

  22. #21
    Sam_'s Avatar
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    Does driving with ESP off make that much of a difference? I'll have to give it a go tomorrow.
    Handling mods++. GTX30 soon-ish. Hiding parts from the mrs since 2011. Build thread

  23. #22
    superkarl's Avatar
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    How does it not annoy you lol.

  24. #23
    Prawn's Avatar
    My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    It annoys the hell out of me, I just can't stand having the light on!
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Prawns TFSI Turbo'd 1.8T Track Car

    But I know nothing so ignore me.

  25. #24
    Alex C's Avatar
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    if you go into a corner over eager with esp on it cuts the power mid corner, and scared the crap out of me when it happened last time
    Alex S3 AMK
    Bilstein B8s, H&R Springs, Neuspeed ARBs, Genuine 18" BBS LMs & LCR Brembos

  26. #25
    Sam_'s Avatar
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    Does it do it with the n249 though? I've bypassed that. Sorry to thread derail...
    Handling mods++. GTX30 soon-ish. Hiding parts from the mrs since 2011. Build thread

  27. #26
    Alex C's Avatar
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    yes, but i dont think thats the only method...?
    Alex S3 AMK
    Bilstein B8s, H&R Springs, Neuspeed ARBs, Genuine 18" BBS LMs & LCR Brembos

  28. #27
    Prawn's Avatar
    My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    no, it does it in all sorts of ways! the N249 is just one of the ways!

    it can also pull out boost via the N75, it can release the throttle, and it can brake individual wheels too which feels VERY odd!
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Prawns TFSI Turbo'd 1.8T Track Car

    But I know nothing so ignore me.

 

 

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