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Thread: My latest S3 mods H&R Springs with Koni FSD Dampers & Jabbasport remap etc...

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    Agric04's Avatar
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    My latest S3 mods H&R Springs with Koni FSD Dampers & Jabbasport remap etc...

    I've got the S3 booked into Jabbasport on the 4th May to get the remaining bushes swapped out for Superpro polybushes, new rear arb, braided brake lines, a generic Jabbasport remap and H&R springs (25mm drop) and Koni FSD dampers.

    Also getting the timing belt, water pump & tensioners changed, brake fluid upgraded and rear diff and transmission oil changed.

    They changed the haldex oil, fuel filter, spark plugs and oil pump last Saturday. Changed the oil pump as a precaution as I didn't want to risk an oil pump failure as there seems to be quite a few people that have suffered from this. Glad I did as there was quite a bit of non metallic rubber stuff in the bottom of the sump which was getting stuck in the oil pick up, not excessive but it should be perfect now. Was amazed how clean the sump was when it was off, no burnt oil really at all....hopefully a good sign!

    They changed the front bushes, top mount and front arb in Feb.....this car is a money pit but it is fun!!

    Is anyone out there running H&R springs with Koni FSD dampers? What's the ride like? I'm after an oem look ride height wise and to keep it comfortable but improve on the oem handling! Do people think this will acheive what I'm after?
    Last edited by Agric04; 19th April 2011 at 22:46.
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    finesse's Avatar
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    I have FSD even with oem springs the handling is very good

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    Cool, I'm looking forward to the improvement, the handling is rubbish at the moment. The backend at times doesn't feel connected, hoping the bushes and fsd's will tighten it all back up.
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    H&R's will lower the car more than Eibachs which, when they were on mine, gave me an all but standard ride height.

    In my opinion having the car that little 25-30mm lower makes the world of difference, lower centre of gravity etc etc.

    If you want standard ride height over handling go Eibachs, If you want better handling go H&R/Apex.

    Just my experiences other people's may have differed.

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    Agric04's Avatar
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    Sounds like a small drop in height will be worth it.
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    The FSD Dampers are not what they advertise.

    Koni claim that they can "End the compromise between comfort and handling" by using "Frequency Selective Damping". Their marketing jumbo states that their dampers will provide less damping (softer) at high wheel frequencies, whilst providing more damping (harder/stiffer) at lower frequencies. They state that this results in a comfortable ride when you want it, but sporty suspension when you need it... Rubbish.

    The wheel sees high frequency inputs 95% of the time when driving down a road because of the coarseness of the aggregate and all the little stones etc. that you drive over. This results in a the damper barely ever utilising the second setting.

    We've tested these dampers at work (where I design dampers for a living) and whilst they may provide nice curves on a sin-wave input damper dyno, when you look at their reaction to real road data replay, it's nothing like what they claim.

    Just FYI.
    '52 A3 1.8T AUM

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    That's interesting tomlin. Jody at midland VW swears by koni fsd dampers. He rates them very highly even over the bilstens.
    2000 AMK S3, Revo'd, forge 007p, B8's, H&R's, tarox g88's, ferrodo ds2500's, and in the fastest colour



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    It depends what you are after. If you want lower, stiff and "sporty" feeling, then I'm sure almost all aftermarket dampers will be pretty similar in those terms. I would doubt if any tuning companies have done any testing other than putting them on a car and going for a drive, and while this is arguably a reasonable test for comfort rating, they are not equipped to comment reliably on actual performance. If you are after controlling contact patch loads for optimising track performance, you should be taking more care in your damper selection.

    To each his own I guess, but I wouldn't bother 'upgrading' from the standard Sport/S units unless I had some serious money to spend on dampers (think over 1k per corner). I think most people wouldn't pay good money for a remap if you didn't have any idea what the power gain from it would be, so it confuses me that people would pay even more for suspension 'upgrades' without any data showing the performance improvement. I suppose you can feel the kick up the backside and quite easily time the straight line acceleration difference, but what kind of metric are you measuring your suspension with?
    '52 A3 1.8T AUM

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    Quote Originally Posted by S3 Rav View Post
    That's interesting tomlin. Jody at midland VW swears by koni fsd dampers. He rates them very highly even over the bilstens.
    And most member swear by the Bilsteins on this forum, I have 2 S3's both equipped with bilsteins, and one of them has 156k miles on it, which gives me confidence for the long term, though I have never tried the Koni FSD's myself.



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    Sounds like only way I'll know if I'll be happy with my choice is after there fitted and I've driven the car. Jabbasport and awesome gti both recommended the set up as a good choice so I hope their right! I've never run anything but oem on any of my previous cars so this will be an expensive learning experience if I don't like it!
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    Quote Originally Posted by A3Tomlin View Post
    It depends what you are after. If you want lower, stiff and "sporty" feeling, then I'm sure almost all aftermarket dampers will be pretty similar in those terms. I would doubt if any tuning companies have done any testing other than putting them on a car and going for a drive, and while this is arguably a reasonable test for comfort rating, they are not equipped to comment reliably on actual performance. If you are after controlling contact patch loads for optimising track performance, you should be taking more care in your damper selection.

    To each his own I guess, but I wouldn't bother 'upgrading' from the standard Sport/S units unless I had some serious money to spend on dampers (think over 1k per corner). I think most people wouldn't pay good money for a remap if you didn't have any idea what the power gain from it would be, so it confuses me that people would pay even more for suspension 'upgrades' without any data showing the performance improvement. I suppose you can feel the kick up the backside and quite easily time the straight line acceleration difference, but what kind of metric are you measuring your suspension with?
    Whats your recomendation then bud? I would be interested to hear your thoughts on Bilstien b8's.

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    I haven't personally tested the Bilstein B8's but we've tested many Bilstein dampers before. As I said above really, you won't find an increase in performance from these cheap mass-produced dampers imo. Put simply, race teams don't use this stuff. If they even use Koni/Bilstein/Sachs dampers at all, they will be getting bespoke internals manufactured to much better tolerances at a prototype-style production level. If they want to be F1/IndyCar world champions, they'd be using our dampers

    I would recommend saving the money and spending it elsewhere but if you *have to* upgrade, I'd buy the cheapy eBay ones as they won't feel any different to the Konis/Bilsteins.

    (I should state that these views are my own)
    '52 A3 1.8T AUM

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    no worries dude I asked for your thoughts and i got them

    Is there no merit in changing the dampers when going for lowering springs as they are supposedly designed to be used with this type of spring and are more effective when compared to the 9 year old standard dampers?

    cheers!

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    "Lowering springs" are just shorter free-length springs than the standard ones. If you fit them with the standard dampers, it simply means they are a little further through their stroke (maximum displacement) than they would normally be at static ride height. If the "upgrade" dampers are any different architecturally to the oem ones, it will be that they have a reduced stroke because the car will already be sitting lower (this will only have the effect of limiting droop travel). Basically, road car dampers have a force-velocity, not a force-displacement relationship (due to low pressure, twin-tube construction) and so it shouldn't matter what springs/ride height you are running.

    You make an excellent point though, that your dampers are 9 years old already and therefore almost certainly knackered compared to a brand new set of oems (dampers get softer as they age). So in all likelihood, the perceived "stiffer & better" result that people get when fitting the "upgraded" dampers would probably be the same had they fitted a brand new set of oems.
    '52 A3 1.8T AUM

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    This is great info. What about their durability, surely that's an improvement over standard?

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    Have also been persuaded by Jabba to upgrade the rear arb to an R32 one. I'll still have a standard one on the front, anyone got this set up on theirs, does it make ,much of a difference. I think Jabba told me it should make the car more neutral!
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    Not sure what thickness the R32 rear arb is but I have just uprated my rear arb to a 19mm neuspeed one without doing the front. The car feels more planted and the rear is alot stiffer when cornering, you will need to be careful when on the limit as the day after I put mine on I was 'testing' the cornering abilities and kerbed my rear passenger side wheel on a roundabout; while the car was sideways.... It is so much fun now I know it's going to happen
    99' S3 APY currently just 007p, Badger 5 TIP, Customised Miltek non-res cat-back, Jetex cone, H&R Springs and Bilstein B8 Dampers ... 3" Downpipe, AH Fabrications FMIC and R-Tech Re-map on the way

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    Agric04's Avatar
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    Thanks ginge sounds like it will be a lot more fun.

    Can't wait to get all this kit on the car, it feels awful right now, like it's going to roll round a corner. Both the front and the rear of the car feel like jelly!!!
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    Not much longer to wait now, dropping the car off at Jabba tomorrow evening, can't wait to get it back on Saturday and feel the difference.
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    Hope it all goes well for you bud
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    Quote Originally Posted by A3Tomlin View Post
    So in all likelihood, the perceived "stiffer & better" result that people get when fitting the "upgraded" dampers would probably be the same had they fitted a brand new set of oems.
    Very true. I've fitted shorter springs with brand new OEM dampers to several cars in the past and noticed a huge improvement. I'll probably end up doing the same when I eventually change the suspension on mine.

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    Hope you're happy with the car when you get it back after all the work is done, Bud. I've got a spinal injury, so comfort of ride is of paramount importance to me. I had Koni FSD's fitted with aftermarket springs (30mm drop) on my last car (Astra VXR) and I couldn't fault the set up, both in terms of performance and comfort. I look forward to hearing what you think of them, as I'm currently considering doing exactly the same thing to my S3, H&R's + Koni FSD's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by S3 Rav View Post
    That's interesting tomlin. Jody at midland VW swears by koni fsd dampers. He rates them very highly even over the bilstens.
    My S3 has FSD's and H&R's with 25mm drop which was recommended to me by Vince at Stealth Racing,also have R32 ARB's and the adjustable rear ties.
    I have done a few trackdays also drive country roads everyday and find the ride and handling a lot better than standard,I am sure you will be grinning with the results.

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    I'm s3'less it's now with jabbasport.

    It doesn't seem a fair swap! I've given them my 210bhp s3 and they've given me an old 1 litre vw polo!! I'd forgot just how slow and loud a small engined car is on the motorway trying to keep at 70mph whilst it's revving at 4k! Will really appreciate the S3 when I get it back. Only a couple of days to cope with the lack of power.... it will be worth it. On a plus side £15 took the polo's tank from red to half full which seems a bargain!

    As a benchmark test I regressed today and had my first ever drag race!!!! I've turned into a boy racer!! An IT guy at work has a 2010 Renault Megane Cup I think it's 260bhp, anyway I challenged him to a 0-60 duel during lunch and you'll be glad to know I kicked his French cars ass! His 2wd launch was no match for the Quattro grip, however once he got going he quickly caught up and would have kicked my ass if we'd kept going! Need a top gear track! Will be interesting to see if the remap keeps him in the rear view mirror!!
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    Yey finally got the S3 back today and my initial impressions are awesome, the remap has totally transformed the car, just as I was expecting it to. Don't know how anyone can live without a remap.

    Initial impressions of the new suspension and spring setup is I kind of wish I'd gone for new oem as it is a little bumpy compared to what it was but then I've only driven it briefly so it may not be fair of me to say yet! A better test will be over the next few days with over 14hrs cruising planned driving up to Dundee and back.

    Anyway sleep time now. 5hrs to go before I need to get up and make the two and half hour drive to Awesome GTI to get cruise control fitted on my way to Dundee. I'm really looking forward to the drive up now. Fingers crossed I don't get any speeding tickets with the new power!
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    Enjoy the drive and get some pics up when you get back
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    S3 without a remap is like a girl who doesn't give BJ's
    S3Lol likes this.

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    ^^^LMAO

    ....and a hybrid S3 is like a girl who'll do anal and then give a BJ lol...
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    BT S3 is like a girl who does anal and BJs and brings her mate.....
    Last edited by s3dave; 13th May 2011 at 10:46.

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    Lol AMEN to that!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agric04 View Post
    ...drive to Awesome GTI to get cruise control fitted on my way to Dundee. I'm really looking forward to the drive up now. Fingers crossed I don't get any speeding tickets with the new power!
    With CC fitted in Manchester you shouldn't get any tickets from that point onwards, theoretically!
    Watch out for one of the extra sneaky cameras just South of Dundee though, I think it's set a little lower than the rest. Got myself 3 points from that one for doing 80 at 3am with no other cars around - I should've got a medal for doing only 80 if you ask me.

    Give the new suspension time to settle, and remember it'll be at its best around the twisty stuff not motorways.
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    Quote Originally Posted by s3dave View Post
    BT S3 is like a girl who does anal and BJs and brings her mate....but falls asleep due to lag.
    Fixed
    S3Lol likes this.

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    Well cruise control fitted and loving it.

    Couldn't help myself, being at awesome gti is like a being a kid in a sweetshop, also got them to fit a red dogbone poly bush and I am impressed with how it sharpens up the gear change and makes everything feel tighter.
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    Location
    Stamford
    Posts
    332
    What did they charge for the H&R springs mate? I'm after a set ASAP!

    Cheers,

    Ryan
    '02 Audi S3 - 270bhp / 283lb ft - SOLD
    '08 BMW 135i - 306bhp / 295lb ft
    '12 VW Golf GTD 170 - 168bhp / 258lb ft


  38. #37
    Agric04's Avatar
    1st Gear

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Grantham, Lincolnshire
    Posts
    198
    You might be able to buy mine! After a 7 hour drive upto Scotland I think I've made the wrong decision for my type of driving. Considering putting standard springs back on!

    Awesome gti were cheapest at about £186 plus delivery.

    If you want to check out the feeling of the ride before buying a set let me know and we can arrange a meet in Stamford one evening.
    Current:
    2013 Audi A5 Coupe Black Edition 2.0 tdi 177 manual with t
    echnology pack, interior lighting, cruise control, heated seats.
    Past:
    2006 Mk5 VW Golf GT 2.0 tdi 170
    2001 8L Audi S3 1.8T
    1998 8L Audi A3 1.8T
    1996 Mk3 VW Golf Gti 2.0 8v
    1994 Mk3 VW Golf Gti 2.0 8v
    1986 Mk2 VW Golf driver 1.6
    1987 Vauxhaull Nova 1.0

  39. #38
    s3dave's Avatar
    TFSI Hybrid

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    west yorks
    Posts
    10,121
    Give them a chance ...lol you will soon admire them when chucking it round corners.....

  40. #39
    Agric04's Avatar
    1st Gear

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Grantham, Lincolnshire
    Posts
    198
    There is no denying that the car will be a lot more fun through the bends but I'm not a particularly hard driver through the bends, I'm more into creating a quick and comfortable hot hatch.

    It is only the first day of driving it since the work was done so my initial impressions may change! I do have another 7hr drive ahead of me to get home on Monday afterall.

    My fav mods so far are the remap, dogbone bush and cruise control.

    Out of interest is anyone out there running Koni fsd's with standard spings? If so what's the ride like compared to standard?
    Current:
    2013 Audi A5 Coupe Black Edition 2.0 tdi 177 manual with t
    echnology pack, interior lighting, cruise control, heated seats.
    Past:
    2006 Mk5 VW Golf GT 2.0 tdi 170
    2001 8L Audi S3 1.8T
    1998 8L Audi A3 1.8T
    1996 Mk3 VW Golf Gti 2.0 8v
    1994 Mk3 VW Golf Gti 2.0 8v
    1986 Mk2 VW Golf driver 1.6
    1987 Vauxhaull Nova 1.0

  41. #40
    s3dave's Avatar
    TFSI Hybrid

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    west yorks
    Posts
    10,121
    You will soon forget what it used to be like and love it more.....think of it as pert tits instead of saggy aussie lovers

 

 
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