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  1. #1
    S3 Nattie's Avatar
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    Performance times

    Ok, so I was thinking about trying to do some performance time to get a idea of what my car could do and to be able to repeat the tests when I put a performance mod on my car to see if it made any different to my times. Its all good seeing mods add X amount of power/torque on the dyno but how does that correlate to on the road times.

    Im using vag com to work out the speed, times and distances covered. Its not as accurate as a Vbox but I havent got a spare couple of hundred quid at the moment to buy one so vag com will have to do for know:-). Im still thinking about how I can get it even more accurate so I will update when I do, if I can.

    Oh, and just to point out my cars not running its best and got a EGT fault while logging today which I would assume would have an effect on my performance and fuelling.

    I done 2 runs but will upload the best times.

    Graph



    Times

    30-60 mph = 3.38 seconds Distance = 51.4m
    60-100 mph = 8.84 seconds Distance = 158.85m
    30-100 mph = 12.77 seconds Distance = 399.57m

    I know the times will be different on different days due to temps, wind speed and directions etc. But doing 3 runs and getting and average should give a general idea of the time gained or lost.
    These times are not 100% accurate but its as accurate as I can get at the moment. Next time I get some track time Il repeat the test. If anyone has these times, upload them.

    If anyone has any suggestions on how to make the timing more accurate please speak out :-)
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  3. #2
    Westy's Avatar
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    Nattie how did you calculate the times on VCDS? What measuring blocks etc?
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  4. #3
    S3 Nattie's Avatar
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    In the engine module I logged block 005 for the vehicle speed in km/h and converted it to mph and m/s to get the distances. To get the times I used the time stamp but used the different between them to get the time from zero onwards. I logged block 002 and 115 or g/s and boost just see what happening there too. This if what the spreadsheet looks like.



    Im still thinking about it now, think I can get it more accurate because Im going from when the line crosses the graph now which im not very happy with at the moment.
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    s3dave's Avatar
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    Interesting..temps will play a big part as will wind direction...

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    S3 Nattie's Avatar
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    Ye I do agree there are some variables which would effect the results but there no different to dyno results, tire pressures could also effect the times too but only so much you can try and keep constant. When I log I usually log 3 times and take the average. Also my MAF is slowly deteriorating too as my g/s is slowly getting lower every time I log, maybe due to the EGT fault I got today.

    Im planning on getting a FMIC and 3" TIP before my stage 2 remap and will be interesting to see how the times and distances change. Be good if members with different levels of tuning would do theses test and compare them with others.
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    S3 Nattie's Avatar
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    Anyone up for getting some times with different levels of tuning.
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  8. #7
    Westy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by S3 Nattie View Post
    Anyone up for getting some times with different levels of tuning.
    Yes dude I'll have a go at it one night this week.

    How do you want me to do the runs?
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  9. #8
    S3 Nattie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Westle View Post
    Yes dude I'll have a go at it one night this week.

    How do you want me to do the runs?
    How I did mine was to begin logging before I sent off so didnt have to worry about pressing anything while im driving.

    I logged blocks - 05.02.115 for vehicle speed. Maf values, boost values. I also did one run of 3rd gear 2000rpm to redline to see my maf and boost values my way home.

    When your ready to do the test, hold a steady 30mph and then WOT to 100mph. You can either do it all in one test or you could start at 30mph and just run to 60mph then start at 60 and run to 100mph. I found it easier to just run from 30-100mph as this takes into account your gear changes and can get through more tests quicker.

    I did a few runs to see what was faster, starting off in 2nd or 3rd. Because you have alot more torque than me you may get better times starting off in 3rd.

    Once you have done the tests you can send me your file if you want and il sort the times and distances out for you if thats easier for you. Say if anything is confusing.
    Last edited by S3 Nattie; 18th April 2011 at 13:21.
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  10. #9
    Westy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by S3 Nattie View Post
    How I did mine was to begin logging before I sent off so didnt have to worry about pressing anything while im driving.

    I logged blocks - 05.02.115 for vehicle speed. Maf values, boost values. I also did one run of 3rd gear 2000rpm to redline to see my maf and boost values my way home.

    When your ready to do the test, hold a steady 30mph and then WOT to 100mph. You can either do it all in one test or you could start at 30mph and just run to 60mph then start at 60 and run to 100mph. I found it easier to just run from 30-100mph as this takes into account your gear changes and can get through more tests quicker.

    I did a few runs to see what was faster, starting off in 2nd or 3rd. Because you have alot more torque than me you may get better times starting off in 3rd.

    Once you have done the tests you can send me your file if you want and il sort the times and distances out for you if thats easier for you. Say if anything is confusing.
    All sounds fairly straight forward. I'll get them done and stick you over the file.
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    S3 Nattie's Avatar
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    OK buddy send me the file when your done. Looking forward to seeing your results.

    If anyone else does some runs feel free to PM me your file and il upload your results.
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    Quote Originally Posted by S3 Nattie View Post
    OK buddy send me the file when your done. Looking forward to seeing your results.

    If anyone else does some runs feel free to PM me your file and il upload your results.
    Also my turbo is original and done 123k miles. On Bills rollers it failed to make power becuase the turbo is tired. I'm getting it refurbed next week so some before/after results would be good
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  13. #12
    S3 Nattie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Westle View Post
    Also my turbo is original and done 123k miles. On Bills rollers it failed to make power becuase the turbo is tired. I'm getting it refurbed next week so some before/after results would be good
    I was just thinking that myself. Be good to see how your performance times change with a fresh turbo compared to your now tired one. Your getting a 3" TIP soon and your map adjusted ini. Be interesting to see how all that changes your times
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    "Stick a V8 in it!"

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    What you describe is more or less what the S4 folks call "FATS time" or A4 folks call a "CAPS time". There are various calculators kicking around that you can put in a small number of RPM points and it produces a figure.

    Both involve a run from ~4k to ~6k in 3rd gear.

    Bear in mind that you can use the time to compare between cars, but you need to ensure their gearing is the same.

    Have a look here:
    ModifiedA4 - CAPS FAQ

    Googling FATS will probably get you some more info too.

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    S3 Nattie's Avatar
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    Thanks for that aragorn. Ive never heard of FATS or CAPS but just had a quick nose. So it measure your cars performance by how quickly you can accelerate from 4200rpm - 6500rpm in 3rd gear. In a S3 your likely to be off boost by 6500rpm, depending on your level of tuning.

    Its a good test but it only measure your cars performance in that gear and engine speed ini. The 30-100mph test takes into account your low and high end performance as your accelerating from low to high speed. I would say it also gives you a good idea of yours cars acceleration performance through the gears, for me 2nd, 3rd and a bit of 4th gear.

    The reason why I chose to do 30-100mph is because that the speeds I tend to use my car and I can use all the power available through 2nd, 3rd and a bit of 4th. The 30-60mph and 60-100mph shows how quickly your engine picks up and over taking/drive ability I would say. I would like to do 30-130mph tests but the track I was using didnt have a long enough straight. I may try one of them test you uploaded though so thanks for that.
    Last edited by S3 Nattie; 18th April 2011 at 15:37.
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    "Stick a V8 in it!"

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    yeh, but as with any test its jsut a snapshot of performance.

    If you do 30-130 your introducing gear changes etc, whereas 3.8k to 6.5k in 3rd gives a reasonably similar view, with a bit chopped off either end, but removes the problem of shifting.

    Thats the range of RPM's that your most likely to find yourself accellerating in, you dont really need to capture the range 2 or 3 times as you go thru the gears to get a picture of the cars performance, one snapshot in one gear gives you plenty to go on. You could do the same range in second to give you a 30-60 figure, but the times start to get very short as power increases, so its easier to compare the longer times that a 3rd gear run produces.

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    S3 Nattie's Avatar
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    I do see what you mean. The times and distance wont be that much different bewteen the different levels of tuning, and I would say 30-100mph is a more realistic test.

    Doing 30-100mph will give you a good idea of your cars straight line performance against other cars also, bit like quarter mile times. Be able to see how far in front a stage 1,2 or 3 car would be in front of a standard car or how much quicker it can do the above speeds in how shorter distance.

    Im going to use this test to see how my mods effect my times and how my car compares to other cars. I used to have a sheet of loads of cars 30-100mph times but cant find it. My goal was to get my cars times as close to a E46 M3 as possible.
    Last edited by S3 Nattie; 18th April 2011 at 19:58.
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    Westy's Avatar
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    Ok Nath I've just done a 30-100 log from 2nd gear as it was more fun

    PM me your email address and I'll send over the file.
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    S3 Nattie's Avatar
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    Awesome stuff westle. Il PM you now.
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    westle wheres the phone call dude, i'm up for a bit of this. i'll do mine tomorrow night.
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    S3 Nattie's Avatar
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    Good good. More the better, send it over once you done your runs.

    From looking at your sig you have a fair amount of mods for a stage 1, be interesting to see your times.
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    Westy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by S3 Baby View Post
    westle wheres the phone call dude, i'm up for a bit of this. i'll do mine tomorrow night.
    Sorry bud, I popped out to Tesco so grabbed the laptop and blasted it down the A414
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    S3 Nattie's Avatar
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    Ok so Westle done the 30-100mph test and sent me the file over. Westle car is stage 1 but if you havent seen in one of his threads his turbo is a bit tired and hes planning on getting it refurbed soon. His g/s were the same as mine and im on a OEM map but this is probably because of his tired turbo. Anyway here is his results.

    Graph



    Times

    30-60 mph = 4.07 seconds Distance = 55.6m
    60-100 mph = 8.62 seconds Distance = 154.13m
    30-100 mph = 12.69 seconds Distance = 397.07m

    Westle car is slightly slower than mine from 30-60mph but this would be down to his gear change I would say. If you look at the curve on the graph you can see westle gear change is a bit slow from 2nd - 3rd as the curve goes flat where as mine isnt. From 60-100mph it is slightly quicker than mine and the overall 30-100mph is done quicker and in a slightly shorter distance.

    Thanks for doing the test. You need to get your turbo refurbed and rerun the test.
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  24. #23
    Westy's Avatar
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    Cheers nattie, interesting results. I'll get me gear changes going a bit quicker next time too. At what revs are you changing gear as this might help to keep the tests similar. I was changing at around 6k ish I think
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    S3 Nattie's Avatar
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    I would say you changed gear at the right time as thats when your g/s peaks around 6K, I think your just a bit slower getting back on the loud pedal. To be honest I wouldnt except the 30-60mph times to be that much different on any level of tuning unless your limiter was raised, its quite short a gear 2nd.

    After 2nd your quicker though and I would say thats due to your slightly higher torque and you do the overall test just over a car length shorter distance. Im looking forward to seeing your times with your health turbo on.
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    Westy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by S3 Nattie View Post
    I would say you changed gear at the right time as thats when your g/s peaks around 6K, I think your just a bit slower getting back on the loud pedal. To be honest I wouldnt except the 30-60mph times to be that much different on any level of tuning unless your limiter was raised, its quite short a gear 2nd.

    After 2nd your quicker though and I would say thats due to your slightly higher torque and you do the overall test just over a car length shorter distance. Im looking forward to seeing your times with your health turbo on.
    I've got a short shifter which obviously isn't helping me out much lol. I'll get my reactions sorted out for the next test.
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    S3 Nattie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Westle View Post
    I've got a short shifter which obviously isn't helping me out much lol. I'll get my reactions sorted out for the next test.
    Lol from just looking at your graph your 3rd-4th is quick as the curve of the line doesnt change.
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  28. #27
    "Stick a V8 in it!"

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    You know what, i think i agree with you, 30-100 is a better test.

    Mainly because it allows comparison between models. Audi seem to love changing around the gearing on every different engine combo fitted to their cars, even such that a 1.8T FWD and 1.8T Quattro can have totally different gearing.

    Comparing 30-100 or even a subset of that such as 60-100 allows you to compare different cars be it different engine types on one model, or completely different models.

    What would be interesting though is how accurate the vehicle speed reading actually is... The Speedo in the A4 seems to overread by a fair amount, but wether thats error in the signal, or programmed into the dash i'm not sure.

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    Ye I see what you mean with Audi/VAG and gearboxes. I have 2 mates one with a remapped VW bug 5 speed and a Audi A3 1.8T 6 speed also with the same remap, both running a KO3S I think. When you look at there logs they are both near enough the same, around 200bhp so in terms of their engine performance you could say they are very close but on the road its clear the VW is quite a bit quicker mainly because of the gearbox. It can do that extra 5 mph in ever gear so always ends up in front in a straight 30-100mph test.

    Im using the vehicle speed which vag com displays which is slightly more accurate than the dash from just looking at them both. Weather the dash runs off the same data as vag com does im unsure.

    I found the site of 30-100mph times for other performance cars.

    Performance Statistics: 30-100 mph

    You can use this to also compare your 30-60mph or 60-100mph times.

    Custom Statistics

    10.30 is my goal - E46 M3 If anyone finds a site with updated cars please post it

    This is a more up to date list of 60-100 mph times

    60-100 Times :: TorqueStats.com
    Last edited by S3 Nattie; 19th April 2011 at 17:33.
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    Just an Idea Nath. When doing your runs you can change the climate control to show you your speed in KPH which is the same reading you'll get from VCDS but it's a bit easier to keep an eye on then the laptop.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Westle View Post
    Just an Idea Nath. When doing your runs you can change the climate control to show you your speed in KPH which is the same reading you'll get from VCDS but it's a bit easier to keep an eye on then the laptop.
    That is a good idea. So you know when to go WOT from looking at the CC. So when the CC is at 48 km/h you can being the test and end at 161km/h. That would be easier to look at than a laptop if your on your own.

    What number is the vehicle speed on the CC, I cant remember.
    Last edited by S3 Nattie; 19th April 2011 at 17:40.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Westle View Post
    Cheers Westle
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    I've asked s3baby to do the same on his drive over to me. We should have some log files for you by 7pmish
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    Quote Originally Posted by Westle View Post
    I've asked s3baby to do the same on his drive over to me. We should have some log files for you by 7pmish
    Good good are you expecting s3baby times to be slightly faster than yours.
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  36. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by S3 Nattie View Post
    Good good are you expecting s3baby times to be slightly faster than yours.
    Yeah slightly. Mainly because I told him my gear change was slow so he'll be going for it but also because he has a FMIC and 3" TIP. He's on his way over now so will have results soon.
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  37. #36
    S3 Nattie's Avatar
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    Ok, just done S3 Baby results. His logs are pretty good I would say for a stage 1 with his mods. His quickest 30-100 mph run which was done all in one run wasnt the quickest his car can go. He did a quicker 60-100mph in one run but had a slower 30-60mph.

    Il upload the graphs to my photobucket account now and let you know his results.
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    According to S3 Baby logs his cars running about 260bhp for a stage 1 S3 which is good.

    He done 4 runs and 2 runs were quite similar to Westle times but 2 had good smooth gear changes and seems to all come together which gave a overall fair bit quicker time and distance.

    Graph



    Times

    30-60 mph - 3.61 Distance - 48.4m
    60-100 mph - 7.71 Distance - 137.48m
    30-100 mph - 11.32 Distance - 345.20m

    His 30-60mph times were all near enough 3.6 seconds on all of his runs. It is when he gets into 3rd his car would leave a standard S3. His time is just over a second faster than my OEM mapped S3 from 60-100 mph and does the distance in just over 21m shorter than mine.

    So in a straight line run S3 Baby stage 1 would do the 30-100mph run 1.45 seconds faster and in 54.37m shorter. Good to see a good difference over a standard and stage 1 S3 on the road times. When I get my stage 2 map on it will be interesting to see the difference between stage 1 and 2 on the road times.

    Cheer S3 Baby for doing the test.
    Last edited by S3 Nattie; 19th April 2011 at 21:19.
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    Cheers Nathan for taking the time to work it all out i'm pleased with the results.

    It will be interesting to see the difference between stage 1 & 2 maps.

    hopefully a few more people do the test.
    Revo Stage 2 with all the Gear
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  40. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by S3 Baby View Post
    Cheers Nathan for taking the time to work it all out i'm pleased with the results.

    It will be interesting to see the difference between stage 1 & 2 maps.

    hopefully a few more people do the test.
    No worries, I sent the file back to westle for you to have a look. You will see the difference with your graphs and times. Just wondering did you install your 3" TIP after you had your dyno run at Bills because I thought you ran about 235bhp on bills dyno but your g/s now gives you a peak of 260bhp.

    I want to see how close westle will get to your times once his turbo gets sorted.
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    Correct i walked away from bill's with the 3" TIP in my hand I now wish i fitted it there and jumped back on the rollers.

    I noticed my G/s jumped from 199 to about 215ish just from fitting the tip well happy with it.

    Cheers for the files i will grab them off of westle tomorrow.
    Revo Stage 2 with all the Gear
    BHP = 274 / Torque = 293




 

 
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