Doing a Remap yourself?.

[rlc1985]

Anyone got any good information on this?. And is it possible using an obd2 lead, a laptop and that Bosch ESI Programme?. I've read up abit of info and read that you have to save your original file off your ecu if anything go's wrong, like a back up i suppose. And you need an updated map, that might not suit your car aswel as if you took it to a proper place to get it done.

Wondered if anyone has tryed this and how they have got on?. Thanks Rob

 

[s3_kev]

id leave it to the pro's unless you seriously no what your doing. most tuners just upload generic maps anyway probably because they dont no how to write a map or because its there bussines if it goes wrong. those points im gessing on but thats how i see it from the outside.
its not worth doing yourself as its not to expensive for a remap consideing the benefits you gain from it, be far more costly if you were to mess it up and have to get what goes wrong put right then still pay out on a mapp there after

 

[aragorn]

The simple answer is if you have to ask, no.

Its a bit like asking "can i build a house myself".

IE yes, you can build a house yourself, but unless you know what your doing its likely to collapse in a pile of rubble with you inside, or even if it doesnt collapse, end up costing you more in the long run by the time you've rectified all the mistakes.

Getting the software and cables is just the easy part, actually mapping the engine requires knowledge and know-how that you cant just make up yourself or guess at, nor can you learn via an internet forum.

 

[rlc1985]

Thank's for the feedback chaps. I didn't think it would be to complicated, glad i haven't messed with anything yet before getting some advice on it. It would be nice to hear if anyone has had any success with it though especially if most tuner's are using generic maps.

The way i thought it would work is like updating a file on your pc. Your car's ecu is factory set, and that you would be able to gain access to the ecu via the port and transfer a map onto there similar to an update to make it perform better. But i suppose it comes with to many risks.

 

[aragorn]

depending on the age of the car it is more or less as youve described.

The problem is modifying the map itself.

No tuner will give out their map files, as thats how they make their money, an building a map yourself isnt a trivial task..

 

[rlc1985]

So when it actually comes to modifying the map, is it a matter of changing value's yourself via your laptop then reloading the map back onto your car. Surely there is someone on here who can get hold of maps

 

[Broken Byzan]

Why is someone going to give you a map, when they can make money selling it to you.

It's not quite as simple as you make it sound. You need to log values, change figures, in more than one map as some ECUs run multiple maps.

 

[badger5]

"bosch esi programme"

say what?

 

[s3_kev]

especially if most tuner's are using generic maps.

The way i thought it would work is like updating a file on your pc. Your car's ecu is factory set, and that you would be able to gain access to the ecu via the port and transfer a map onto there similar to an update to make it perform better. But i suppose it comes with to many risks.

this is all thats done tbh the tuner will have a uprated map which they load into the ecu in replacment of the factory map, however they can tweak the map a little to suit the vehicle in question.
to create a whole new map from scratch i belive can take days and lots of know how. but yes you could basically upload your own software to the ecu if you could get a pre written map, still best done by the pro's and i cant see you saving anything anyway

 

[cecilthesausage]

I can see someone blowing up there engine Can anyone else just doesnt want to listen

 

[hades-]

go for it
post results when you finshed

 

[Westy]

Put it this way. I had a map from a company who are a fairly big mapping company and so called "Pros" and they couldn't even get the fuelling right, so whatever you do dont put on a map that someone gives to you!!! I was running really lean and subsequently had to buy another map to sort the problem.

From my experience I would stick to one of the big named maps that have the reputation behind them and I'd also get the car rolling roaded at the same time. Each car is different and fueling will be different.

 

[TDIQ]

Surely if you can read your original map from your ECU then you can also read a tuner's map off someones ECU that's been remapped.

Once you have that I presume you could map your car with it, provided it's not custom code and the same car and engine. Probably wouldn't be without its problems though.

 

[Westy]

Unfortunately its not as easy as that. A decent kit to safely flash ECUs is a few thousand quid plus a lot of the mapping companies encrypt their maps so they cant be easily read and copied.

 

[Dane]

There are 'maps' for lots of things too and the name of what the map is for is usually in German for our cars IIRC.

Decent remap = £250-£300
Having to rebuild the engine because of a melted piston or two = £loadsa money

 

[Westy]

This was the difference between my 2 maps. Both big companies though one bigger than the other. The blue line is my old map and the red line my new map.

Check out the difference in the fueling!!! The blue line shows the map running extremely lean and the Exhaust Gas Temp safety feature cutting in and dumping fuel into the system to cool it. If I'd pushed my car hard on a daily basis I might have done a piston.

The new map (red line) shows spot on fueling and improved performance because of it. Also no EGT cut in

 

[rlc1985]

Some decent feedback here, open's my eyes to it abit more. Sounds like people are saying go for it at your own risk, but its not really worth it as the possible damage to your car, which i understand. You have got arguments for an against on here aswell though. I don't think im going to take the risk, but it's interesting to think that two standard audi a3's the same year, same engine size, same ecu model or whatever out the factory couldnt run well off the same map if one was remapped, and the map was coppied from that audi and put on the other audi for example, that had not been remapped.

 

[Westy]

Some decent feedback here, open's my eyes to it abit more. Sounds like people are saying go for it at your own risk, but its not really worth it as the possible damage to your car, which i understand. You have got arguments for an against on here aswell though. I don't think im going to take the risk, but it's interesting to think that two standard audi a3's the same year, same engine size, same ecu model or whatever out the factory couldnt run well off the same map if one was remapped, and the map was coppied from that audi and put on the other audi for example, that had not been remapped.

My point is that a decent map like the one in the red line on my graph above cost me £400 where as the cheaper map cost me £200 and was still done by a proper mapping company with all the tools for mapping and they still cocked up the fueling.

The decent maps are all encrypted so that the data cant just be copied and shared between cars. I nearly learnt the hard way and I'm just saying its worth getting it done properly in the proper environment by a proffessional.

We haven't even touched on what would happen if the map fails half way through flashing either!! Could end up with a cabbaged ECU

 

[aragorn]

It could, and this is almost exactly what the tuners will do for a generic remap.

For a given engine (or perhaps more correctly a given ECU), they will have a standard map on the shelf that they simply flash on.

Reading a remap from an already tuned ECU and flashing it onto another unit would probably work just fine, although some companies employ some tricks to stop that happening. End of the day though the data needs at some point to turn into "normal" code that the ECU can read, so any protections can probably be worked around.

There was a thing i read recently on one of the ford websites where someone had done exactly that, and were selling the extracted map off super cheaply (think it was a Focus RS or ST?). The mapping company got rather ****** off about it though, as you can probably imagine.

 

[DaveA3]

by the time u buy all the bits u could have gone to rtech for £200 and got a superb map and service

 

[TDIQ]

Westle Name and shame the company? Could be a one off obviously but interesting to know who it was.

There are sites where people map their own cars and I think the most difficult part is probably obtaining the map. Flashing it wouldn't be particularly difficult I don't think but making sure it was the correct map and the car was running correctly would be crucial.

 

[rlc1985]

Westle i understand your point, its crazy that you could spend £200 to get it done proper and still have problems after though, and just like anything if you spend a little bit more your likely to get a better job done.

Aragorn that's interesting, you can understand why the tuner's get pis$ed off with people copying the maps, but just like anything computerised i suppose its hackable. People on here are saying that tuner's won't just give there maps out because thats how they make there money. But you have people hacking expensive computer programs and uploading them onto torrent sites without wanting any payment. If i had mine remapped and could pass it onto friends, i would. And when it comes to messing with the value's and making my own map, i wouldnt touch it, i don't know enough, but if like whats been pointed out half of the maps are generic sitting on a shelf for that model, they should be able to be copyied from one car to the next as Aragorn pointed out.