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Thread: S3 PE1820 big turbo build

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    Welly's Avatar
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    S3 PE1820 big turbo build

    Morning people.

    After much soul searching over the last few days, I have decided that I will be removing my hybrid to make way for something larger....

    I am costing up the project and trying to see what I can afford to do, whilst keeping in a very tight budget.

    It's looking like (potentially and subject to change) I will be using an IHI Hybrid turbo, top mounted. Planning to keep the water meth and engine configuration as is currently, and basically bolt on a bigger blower and up the injector size to suit.

    I have my doubts as to how easy a top mount will fit in the S3, as it looks like it will be quite tight....

    Watch this space...
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    MMM can't wait, ps you have a pm

    Good luck dooodson

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    Jesus man you do get bored. Are you not happy with the hybrid performance?
    I suppose the sale of your hybrid would help massively toward the new blower.
    What's your reasons for it and blower choice?

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    Quote Originally Posted by superkarl View Post
    Jesus man you do get bored. Are you not happy with the hybrid performance?
    I suppose the sale of your hybrid would help massively toward the new blower.
    What's your reasons for it and blower choice?
    Not bored of the performance, bored of the fact I now have nothing to do in honesty. I like having a project on to manage, because that's just me.

    For those who have met, they will know that I am a very hyper active person, and sitting down doing nothing simply isn't my thing.

    I will be doing this alongside work, work outside of work, and a new business I've started! lol.

    Blower choice comes down to what happens to be available basically. Plus it's a tried and tested setup.

    I have gone with the hybrid IHI solely to try and kill off the lag. The K04 hybrid has next to no lag at all, and whilst I like big power, big power is usually associated with big lag.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Welly View Post
    It's looking like (potentially and subject to change) I will be using an IHI Hybrid turbo, top mounted. Planning to keep the water meth and engine configuration as is currently, and basically bolt on a bigger blower and up the injector size to suit.
    Whats water meth all about?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dane View Post
    MMM can't wait, ps you have a pm

    Good luck dooodson
    HAHA, when I was reading it I was thinking of droping you a PM to this post. lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by Welly View Post
    I have gone with the hybrid IHI solely to try and kill off the lag. The K04 hybrid has next to no lag at all, and whilst I like big power, big power is usually associated with big lag.
    Super charger not an option?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Axios View Post
    Super charger not an option?
    Doesn't interest me mate to be honest - additional hassle.
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    NOTE:

    For any interested, the hybrid and all associated parts are provisionally SOLD.
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    New engine? I am sure a hybrid S3 engine with all the mods is worth a few quid?

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    As in - v6 S4 shoved it?

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    No, not interested in changing the engine. I have put time and money into the lump I have already.

    I'll have the head looked at, stem seal and cam seals done on the head, and that's about it engine wise.
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    "Stick a V8 in it!"

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    I wouldnt touch an IHI mate.

    Either stick with a tried and true GT28/GT30/GT35 or take a look at the new EFR turbos from borg warner, as they look REALLY tasty.

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    You just need punishment in your life welly....lol

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    Welly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aragorn View Post
    I wouldnt touch an IHI mate.

    Either stick with a tried and true GT28/GT30/GT35 or take a look at the new EFR turbos from borg warner, as they look REALLY tasty.
    What's wrong with the IHIs?

    I don't like going down the beaten track personally, and like to do something a little different... :D
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    Quote Originally Posted by Welly View Post
    I don't like going down the beaten track personally, and like to do something a little different... :D
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    "Stick a V8 in it!"

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    IMO they're chocolate turbos.

    The beaten track is there because its cost effective and works well.

    Going off the beaten track for some IHI hybrid chocolate turbo seems like a good way to piss more money away tbh.

    If you want to do something different, go down the EFR route. They're completely modern design, so you get the benefits of a rapid spool and excellent flow characteristics for its size when compared with the other options which are all by and large 10-15years old. Twin scroll housing would be even better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aragorn View Post
    IMO they're chocolate turbos.

    The beaten track is there because its cost effective and works well.

    Going off the beaten track for some IHI hybrid chocolate turbo seems like a good way to piss more money away tbh.

    If you want to do something different, go down the EFR route. They're completely modern design, so you get the benefits of a rapid spool and excellent flow characteristics for its size when compared with the other options which are all by and large 10-15years old. Twin scroll housing would be even better.
    You funding wellys venture then with the talk of EFR turbos etc?
    Its a case of something which is available (used) which is reasonably priced, and has proven to work to >350bhp previously

    I am not an IHI fan personally due to their fragility when pushed, and in their usual jabba_esque underslung mounting running them very hot. This is an equal length tubular top mount install (formely on badger wagen a few years ago)

    If the IHI dies, there's plenty of choice being top mount to fit a host of TD series units.
    I have run VF34's, PE1820, FP Green, FP Red IHI style/fitment units......... and its no coincidence I run a GT35 now and luv it... BUT, quick spool is high on wellys must have list, which alters the choices somewhat. After the hybrids performance, its going to be one hard act to follow I think.
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  20. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by badger5 View Post
    After the hybrids performance, its going to be one hard act to follow I think.
    This sounds very much like Bill trying to put me off.... :-/, and also makes me think.
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    "Stick a V8 in it!"

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    Probably because hes sitting looking at the shelf full of dead IHI's :P

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  22. #21
    "Stick a V8 in it!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by badger5 View Post
    You funding wellys venture then with the talk of EFR turbos etc?
    Its a case of something which is available (used) which is reasonably priced, and has proven to work to >350bhp previously

    I am not an IHI fan personally due to their fragility when pushed, and in their usual jabba_esque underslung mounting running them very hot. This is an equal length tubular top mount install (formely on badger wagen a few years ago)

    If the IHI dies, there's plenty of choice being top mount to fit a host of TD series units.
    I have run VF34's, PE1820, FP Green, FP Red IHI style/fitment units......... and its no coincidence I run a GT35 now and luv it... BUT, quick spool is high on wellys must have list, which alters the choices somewhat. After the hybrids performance, its going to be one hard act to follow I think.
    No, but theres something to be said for spending the money and doing the job properly the first time, than messing around trying to do the job cheaply and ending up doing it many times over. Had welly fitted a GT30 at the beginning, rather than messing around with the hybrid(s) and all the various iterations thereafter, he'd probably be quids in now, with a reliable 400hp motor.

    The maps and plots i've seen of IHI's dont put them all that much better than a GT30 like Tufftys in terms of spool, and the fact that either turbo has a high boost threshold is only really an issue if you cant drive.

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  23. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by aragorn View Post
    Had welly fitted a GT30 at the beginning, rather than messing around with the hybrid(s) and all the various iterations thereafter, he'd probably be quids in now, with a reliable 400hp motor.
    Whilst I don't disagree, I think that some useful information has come to light as a result of my efforts with the hybrid, and to be honest, the money is a factor that doesn't really concern me. Not that I am rolling in it by any means.

    I'd say that extracting 340 bhp from a hybrid K04 is a worthy achievement, despite having to go round the houses to get there. There has been some really useful data gathered for people who can now make their own minds up by looking at a well documented build.

    I'd also like to point out that the aim of the hybrid was never for it to be done 'cheaply', and I am amazed how you have surmised this. I didn't fit a GT30 because I didn't WANT a GT30, not for it to be done on the cheap.

    Again, I don't like going down the beaten path - maybe it's a personal failing - but I like to be different.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Welly View Post
    ....but I like to be different.
    ...and we luv yah all the more for it bud....

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    Quote Originally Posted by tufftybloke View Post
    ...and we luv yah all the more for it bud....

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  26. #25
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    I know exactly where your coming from on being different, tbh its a trait that most of us have to some extent, which is why we're driving around in modified cars in the first place.

    However i've simply come to realise that with some things, theres just no point doing it differently for the sole reason of having done it differently. There needs to be a good reason that makes your "different" approach better than the "normal" one. Doing something new, and pushing the "envelope" is a different story ofcourse, someones always got to be pushing boundaries and discovering what works and what doesnt, which is what you did with the current engine.

    But what your proposing going forward from this point isnt new, and it isnt pushing the envelope. Its implementing a solution thats not really that much better than your existing setup in terms of power, and one thats KNOWN to be unreliable when pushed hard. People stay away from it for good reason, these IHI turbos dont like big boost, and unfortunately to get the numbers your looking for from a little 1.8 thats exactly what you require.

    Sure, you can be different for the hell of it and fit some random used turbo from an impreza (be it an IHI or something else), but its not going to give you the best end result.

    Now had you said you were planning on using a Twin Scroll TD05 turbo from a Evo7-9 with a 10.5 hotside, then that would be a nice solution to your problem, with a turbo that should be capable of over 380hp in a twin scroll package that should spool very nicely indeed.

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    You've done well with the K04 Hybrid, powerful and reliable....

    I look forward to the IHI addition on your build thread
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  28. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by aragorn View Post
    I know exactly where your coming from on being different, tbh its a trait that most of us have to some extent, which is why we're driving around in modified cars in the first place.

    However i've simply come to realise that with some things, theres just no point doing it differently for the sole reason of having done it differently. There needs to be a good reason that makes your "different" approach better than the "normal" one. Doing something new, and pushing the "envelope" is a different story ofcourse, someones always got to be pushing boundaries and discovering what works and what doesnt, which is what you did with the current engine.

    But what your proposing going forward from this point isnt new, and it isnt pushing the envelope. Its implementing a solution thats not really that much better than your existing setup in terms of power, and one thats KNOWN to be unreliable when pushed hard. People stay away from it for good reason, these IHI turbos dont like big boost, and unfortunately to get the numbers your looking for from a little 1.8 thats exactly what you require.
    I disagree with this - boost boost isn't what's required to make big numbers at all.

    The K04 hybrid makes 340 bhp from 22 PSI boost. It's not about the boost, it's about the airflow through the setup. The engine is a large port with water meth, allowing for considerable timing advance to be added.

    This isn't your average IHI, it's a PE1820. I'm not sure of the specifics of wheel sizes, however it will well outflow the current K04 hybrid turbo that is on the S3, and hopefully will do so with minimal lag due to a nice cosy hot side.

    The reason that I don't want to hammer off down the Garrett route is simply that I want to retain OEM valves and cam gear. I don't want to rev the engine to 8K+ to be able to actually get the power that is there.

    I'm not just doing it for the crack, I put a lot of thought into my projects, and have been giving this considerable thought for some time. I have made this decision based on what I aim to achieve.

    If you want to be Jonny Raincloud then that's fine, and I am 100% sure you will get your opportunity to say I told you so. However, since you currently have nothing constructive to say on the subject, aside from don't do this, do something else, then please kindly zip it.
    Last edited by Welly; 29th March 2011 at 14:56.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandip View Post
    You've done well with the K04 Hybrid, powerful and reliable....

    I look forward to the IHI addition on your build thread
    Thanks dude, it will be fun to tackle a different project, with a top mount fitment as opposed to underslung.
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    Thought i'd have a quick scan on google, is it going to be something like this??

    Fourtitude.com - who's running equal length fabricated exhaust mani's here?


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  31. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by aragorn View Post
    No, but theres something to be said for spending the money and doing the job properly the first time, than messing around trying to do the job cheaply and ending up doing it many times over. Had welly fitted a GT30 at the beginning, rather than messing around with the hybrid(s) and all the various iterations thereafter, he'd probably be quids in now, with a reliable 400hp motor.

    The maps and plots i've seen of IHI's dont put them all that much better than a GT30 like Tufftys in terms of spool, and the fact that either turbo has a high boost threshold is only really an issue if you cant drive.
    unless you have personal experience of a PE1820, and I would pretty much guarantee you wont have you are just speculating re spool..

    Read what wellys requirements are as to as little lag as possible, and GT30 just wont tick that box..
    Now, there's reality to kick in on power vs spool.. and a compromise & balance is the decision maker, as well as the all important budget to do it of course.

    I do indeed have dead IHI exhaust housings on my shelf.. and wellys seen them many times. The PE has a new P20 housing.. and no surprise why it needed one.. lol - chocolate analogy indeed is pretty apt. Keep sensible boosts and egt's however on a better flowing manifold and it should work well. As I said TD series will be bolt on for relatively less for an 18g type unit if the need arises down the line..

    The PE1820 spooled more like a VF34/GT28rs but with better top end.

    GT35 or go home :D
    Last edited by badger5; 29th March 2011 at 14:58.
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    Quote Originally Posted by aragorn View Post
    Now had you said you were planning on using a Twin Scroll TD05 turbo from a Evo7-9 with a 10.5 hotside, then that would be a nice solution to your problem, with a turbo that should be capable of over 380hp in a twin scroll package that should spool very nicely indeed.
    but there is'nt a package for that which is reliable and available tho...... Or is there? (jbs used to list one, but never seen it take off)
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  33. #32
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    Welly..

    U need to POP over let me take u out in my S4

    S3's aren't the way forward trust me......
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  34. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandip View Post
    Thought i'd have a quick scan on google, is it going to be something like this??

    Fourtitude.com - who's running equal length fabricated exhaust mani's here?



    lol - looks familiar - my pictures appear everywhere..
    close.. but thats not the PE1820 sat on top but the FP Green
    it will look pretty similar, with some obvious DP twists and turns to have to accomodate to clear 4wd stuff


    and in ceramic coated flavour

    Last edited by badger5; 29th March 2011 at 15:01.
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  35. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by S3BAM View Post
    Welly..

    U need to POP over let me take u out in my S4

    S3's aren't the way forward trust me......
    lol, I might just take you up on that when I have 5 dude. I love my little S3, it's little and it's good fun and that's what counts.
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  36. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by S3BAM View Post
    Welly..

    U need to POP over let me take u out in my S4

    S3's aren't the way forward trust me......
    lardy barges

    I would wager wellys as is car would walk away from yours
    its pretty rapid
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  37. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by S3BAM View Post
    Welly..

    U need to POP over let me take u out in my S4

    S3's aren't the way forward trust me......
    I think he likes his cars to go round corners aswell as spooling up quickly.



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  38. #37
    S3BAM's Avatar
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    True.. Mine is great(Just need to sell it now..!!!)

    But my S4(Yes mine is slightly differant) is in a totally differant world performance wise
    Noggy Blue 02 plate Bam S3 281Bhp SOLD....

    530+Bhp S4/RS4 now on the drive....

  39. #38
    "Stick a V8 in it!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by badger5 View Post
    but there is'nt a package for that which is reliable and available tho...... Or is there? (jbs used to list one, but never seen it take off)
    Presumably it would just require the manifold to be tweaked/reflanged given its already a tubular affair?

    I've looked at a few of these options previously, but never really got anywhere with them as the manifold options were non-existant for longitudinal. I'm particularly wary of tubular manifolds, although having said that there does appear to be tubular turbo manifolds out there that DO stay in one piece.

    2000 A4 1.8T Sport Quattro Avant, Berry Pearl
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  40. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by S3BAM View Post
    Welly..

    U need to POP over let me take u out in my S4

    S3's aren't the way forward trust me......
    hmmm shares and shell come to mind....

  41. #40
    "Stick a V8 in it!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by badger5 View Post
    lardy barges

    I would wager wellys as is car would walk away from yours
    its pretty rapid
    An S3 isnt exactly light though is it....

    I'd bet there wasnt much more than 100kgs between them, maybe 150 as hes got an avant.

    2000 A4 1.8T Sport Quattro Avant, Berry Pearl
    2000 A4 1.8T Sport Quattro Saloon, Black-ish
    1997 S4 - PPC £999 Challenge Track Car Build
    TD5 Land Rover Defender build


 

 
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