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  1. #1
    Westy's Avatar
    Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    Little trip to Badger 5. (Now with Dyno graphs)

    Went for a little trip to see Bill yesterday with S3baby and a few of our mates. We both took our 8L S3s and our mates had a Seat Leon FR and an 8P S3.

    It was a 140 mile, 2 and a half hour journey each way but it was worth it.

    While we were there we met Tuffty (who is basically Bills right hand man), Welly, and Dane. It was nice to finally meet you guys, have a chat and ask a few questions. Dane also let me take his motor for a spin down the road. Dane's S3 is currently the most powerful stage 1 mapped K04 Bill has had on his rollers. Cheers Dane.

    As most of the regulars here know I have been down on power recently so my car went on the rollers first so we could try and find some faults. I'm running a stage 1 "Chipped UK" map with full silicone boost hoses and that's about it.

    Car on the rollers and Bill starts giving it some beans..... POP! Hose from the charge pipe to the DV flew off and gave everyone a scare, including myself who had no change of underwear! I'd clearly not done the hose up properly on Thursday when I took the charge pipe off for painting! Tuffty went round all the jubalee clips and made sure they were tight.

    Take 2 and I register a measly 223bhp 243lbft! Out of 4 runs my highest bhp was 226 and my highest torque figure was 243. Bill and Tuffty believed that I might have a boost leak as I was making boost ok but not the power. Bill was also very concerned with the fueling of the map. I was running 22psi and standard car fueling

    So my poorly car comes off the rollers to cool down while we do the other cars.

    The FR was up next with a stage 1 and induction kit. It put out a very impressive 250bhp but was a pain in the arse to dyne due to it's DSG box. Bill will tell you how much he loves them

    Next was the 8P which only had a revo stage 1 and that was it. A staggering 304bhp was put out by this bad boy on aggressive mode and 270ish in standard mode from the revo switch box

    S3baby's car was up next with what he believed to be a revo stage 1, jetex cone, and FMIC. We were all guessing figures for him and were hoping for around 260ish. He only managed slightly more than me at around 235ish (i'm sure he'll post on this thread to correct me).

    Bill plugged in his revo cable believing he'd be able to adjust the map on the car, turns out it wasn't revo! Bill managed to adjust the fueling on the ECU base tables so it was running slightly better though. Another dissapointed 8L owner was left to scratch his head.

    Back on the rollers for my car and Tuffty set up the compressor for a pressure test. The boost system and coolers held 35psi no problem so a boost leak wasn't my issue.

    I told Bill that I wasn't happy with driving my car with normal fueling and asked for a price on a revo stage 1. Out came the revo cable again and Bill started uploading the map. It took 7 attempts to get the map on the ECU as it kept timing out (another brown trousers moment for Bill and myself). Once the map was loaded successfully Bill made a few tweaks and we did another 2 runs.

    With the revo the fueling was now spot on and I made the following:

    227bhp 268lbft

    Now the bhp figure was still very baffling but the torque was good. Bill and Tuffty believe that my turbo is the problem. It's the original turbo and has covered 123K miles and is basically tired and cant pump air like it used to. So I'll be on the hunt for a new K04 once I've sorted my suspension out next month.

    The drive home was more of a joy than the drive down as my car pulls so much better with the extra torque and felt very good higher up the rev range than before. Plus I feel a lot better knowing that the fueling is now correct.

    I'll get some picks up of my dyno graphs in the morning when I get to work and can scan them in.

    Big thanks to Bill and the guys and I look forward to seeing you all again soon.
    Last edited by Westy; 21st March 2011 at 13:31.

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  3. #2
    S3 Nattie's Avatar
    Quattro ist für sissies

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    Thats really strange, no leaks or anything and making the boost but making low bhp figures. Most be a bit annoying if it is your turbo getting tired.

    At least your happy the fuelling is right now.
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  4. #3
    Westy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by S3 Nattie View Post
    Thats really strange, no leaks or anything and making the boost but making low bhp figures. Most be a bit annoying if it is your turbo getting tired.

    At least your happy the fuelling is right now.
    The theory is that the turbo blades are probably quite blunt now after 123K miles and instead of the turbo chopping the air in it's scooping it in and just cant produce the air flow it used to. This also explains my MAF readings of 189g/s.

    Strangely on the road its as fast as S3baby's and his is as fast as his mates 8P S3 in normal mode (270bhp) so I'm fairly happy now.

    I'll get myself a new turbo and I'll be back on the rollers to see the increase.

  5. #4
    finesse's Avatar
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    nice one westy, hope its sorted. K04 or K04 hybrid?

  6. #5
    Westy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by finesse View Post
    nice one westy, hope its sorted. K04 or K04 hybrid?
    Just a K04 bud. I'll be happy with a 270ish stage1 car and I'm not interested in the amount of money I'll need to spend to get the car set for a hybrid, I'd rather go and buy an 8P and just stick a revo map on it for 300bhp

  7. #6
    S3 Nattie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Westle View Post
    The theory is that the turbo blades are probably quite blunt now after 123K miles and instead of the turbo chopping the air in it's scooping it in and just cant produce the air flow it used to. This also explains my MAF readings of 189g/s.

    Strangely on the road its as fast as S3baby's and his is as fast as his mates 8P S3 in normal mode (270bhp) so I'm fairly happy now.

    I'll get myself a new turbo and I'll be back on the rollers to see the increase.
    At least it performance good on the road though.
    Last edited by S3 Nattie; 20th March 2011 at 23:04.
    For sale

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  8. #7
    Sandip's Avatar
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    Just out of interest Westle, do you know what your a/f ratio was before and after the Revo?

    A new K04 will freshen things up
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  9. #8
    cecilthesausage's Avatar
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    Sorry to hear she,s not running to well Westle. Especially after the drive you have to actually get there I would like to go down but it's over 4 hours for me. Hope you get her up and running properly A.S.A.P. It will feel like a totally different car once you get them horses back you are missin mate

  10. #9
    superkarl's Avatar
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    Plus points, you know in fitting a new turbo you get to unleash its full potential and that will certainly put a smile on your face. For now though, at least your happy and had a good drive back, that's the main thing!

    I should add, get one of sandips 'magic' ko4's from Borg Warner, we all know how well his car is, or power wise should I say

  11. #10
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    Good stuff Westle! Hope you get your turbo sorted out soon bud.
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  12. #11
    Westy's Avatar
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    Cheers for your comments guys. I've already started to look at K04 prices and they seem to vary quite a bit!

    Anyway I'll get the graphs up in the next hour or so.

    Sandip I have graphs that show the fueling between the chipped uk and the revo and they are shocking! EGT protection kicked in for each of my 4 runs with the chipped uk map but not at all with the revo.

  13. #12
    <tuffty/>'s Avatar
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    Give CR Turbos a bell Neil and see how much they will do a refurb for...

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    Silver 2001 AMK S3. Silver alcantara interior... now with added powarrrrrrrr, torques. VAGCOM + KII-USB. >> My build thread...

  14. #13
    S3 Nattie's Avatar
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    You and s3baby may have another job in the evenings to do lol, get your turbo out.
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  15. #14
    6th Gear

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    Thanks for the read westle. Like you said aslong as it's feeling better and you now know it's fuelled right for peace of mind then there's that atleast.
    2000 AMK S3, Revo'd, forge 007p, B8's, H&R's, tarox g88's, ferrodo ds2500's, and in the fastest colour



  16. #15
    Westy's Avatar
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    I might be busting out my bike for a few weeks then if I get my turbo refurbed! Ideally I could do with another car or another turbo to tie me over.

    Uploading my graphs any minute now

  17. #16
    finesse's Avatar
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    Just from reading the forum it seems turn around for refrubs are circa 1 week?

    Give s3baby a triple espresso

  18. #17
    Westy's Avatar
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    Ok here they are:

    First up was my 4 ChippedUK runs:


    Not all that impressive and the next graph will show you the awful fueling on this map:


    As you can see the EGT protection kicks in for each run and dumps fuel in to cool. Ideally the fuelsing wants to be mid 12s not lean 14s!!!

    Here's my 2 Revo runs:



    The 2nd run was after Bill tweaked a few settings

    And here's the comparison between the 2 maps:



    Oh and by the way Bill my name's spelt Neil

  19. #18
    Welly's Avatar
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    Was good to meet you guys as well, it's always nice to see the ASN bods in person, rather that just an Avatar and a name....

    Sorry I couldn't hang around mate, Daddy duty called....
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  20. #19
    Westy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Welly View Post
    Was good to meet you guys as well, it's always nice to see the ASN bods in person, rather that just an Avatar and a name....

    Sorry I couldn't hang around mate, Daddy duty called....
    No problem mate, we may be back soon anyway. S3baby has already been on the phone to Bill this morning weighing up his options

  21. #20
    Welly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Westle View Post
    No problem mate, we may be back soon anyway. S3baby has already been on the phone to Bill this morning weighing up his options
    Its a shame I didn't hang around longer, I'd have taken you both for a quick spin down the road in bumble just to see what it was like.
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  22. #21
    Westy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Welly View Post
    Its a shame I didn't hang around longer, I'd have taken you both for a quick spin down the road in bumble just to see what it was like.
    That would have been a bad idea mate! We would have both been ordering hybrids and rods right now

    I would love a spin in the bad boy though mate so maybe next time

  23. #22
    Sandip's Avatar
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    Neil i think the main thing is your fuelling is better than before, i wish mine was in the 14's never mind 12's
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  24. #23
    Dane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Welly View Post
    Its a shame I didn't hang around longer, I'd have taken you both for a quick spin down the road in bumble just to see what it was like.
    Which is an experience an a half, I couldn't help but laugh it was so good!

    Glad the fuelling is sorted Westle!

  25. #24
    Welly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandip View Post
    Neil i think the main thing is your fuelling is better than before, i wish mine was in the 14's never mind 12's
    Agreed, lean is not good. At least the engine is far healthier than it was, long term leanage is a recipe for disaster.
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  26. #25
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    Glad you got to the bottom of it (potentially) Westle!

    If it's any consolation, my at-the-wheels figures are only about 10bhp above yours (with your Revo) despite a flywheel figure of 254bhp.
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  27. #26
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    Iv just sent my turbo to cr turbos hybrId here I come.

    My ko4 had done 107543 miles and was running 20psi for 5 month bang goes the bearing few people have told me the psi had done this to the turbo coz its a lot and the turbo is old just give me a kick in the arse to go hybrid realy cannont wait
    350bhp & 316ftlb BBT new k16 7+7 blade hybrid turbo, Welly cooler, jetex filter, relentless ported v3 manifold 3" downpipe & de-cat, liquid gauge, r32 rear arb, AGU ported and polished Head, 550cc injectors, kw v2 Coilovers, s3dave tie bars & heat sheild, milltek cat back, I.E forged rods, brembos, inline fuel pump, v3 badger 5 tip, devils own WMI kit, AGU pistons, rear grooved discs & brembo pads, ds2500 pads & EBC ultimax disc, stack boost gauge

  28. #27
    S3 TAM's Avatar
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    First off massive thanks to all that were their on Saturday. It's good to meet fellow ASN'er and I think we all had a really good day.

    To be honest I'm a bit disappointed with my results I thought I would be pushing abit more than 240's or am i asking abit to much from a stage 1 map.

    I think it's time for 3" DP and Stage 2.

    See graphs below.





    All is good though i walked a way with a smile on my face and one of bill's 3" TIP's in my hand..
    Last edited by S3 TAM; 21st March 2011 at 12:38.
    Revo Stage 2 with all the Gear
    BHP = 274 / Torque = 293




  29. #28
    Westy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by S3 Baby View Post
    All is good though i walked a way with a smile on my face and bill's 3" TIP in my hand..
    lol, do you want to re-phrase that

    I think you will get more power from some more torque matey. I got an extra 25lbft of torque from the Revo map. I think Revo is the way forward

  30. #29
    Welly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by S3 Baby View Post
    All is good though i walked a way with a smile on my face and bill's 3" TIP in my hand..
    Might be worth revising this....
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  31. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by S3 Baby View Post

    All is good though i walked a way with a smile on my face and one of bill's 3" TIP's in my hand..
    disgusting brute......lol

  32. #31
    Westy's Avatar
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    Video of the Leon FR on Bill's rollers, sounds wicked:

    a4f3642a.mp4 video by purextc69 - Photobucket

    S3baby has some vids but I've not had a chance to get them off him.
    Last edited by Westy; 22nd March 2011 at 11:51.
    8P A3 TDI - 220bhp - 335lbft
    A3 Maintenance Thread
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