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Thread: Sandips (strange) build thread

  1. #41
    S3 Nattie's Avatar
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    Thats probably why your running pretty high power as a lean mixture tends to give you good power but its bad to run too lean for obvious reasons. Should be getting lambda values which welly has just said.

    Hopefully you can get your ECU sorted and get a proper known map on it.
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  3. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Welly View Post
    Not a good map from the above.... What map is it? Should be requesting around lambda .85

    Way lean, and lots of over boost...?
    It's a very rare map called 'Poo Map', it was probably due to this map that my cylinder head cracked, i want to do another logs to see egt's but i don't want to push my luck


    think it's a Superchip map but MTM also did chip changes early on so who knows. When Revo remove it i'll ask them to send it back so i can have a good look at it
    3.2 V6 with Custom Code VVT Attack Software


  4. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by S3 Nattie View Post
    Thats probably why your running pretty high power as a lean mixture tends to give you good power but its bad to run too lean for obvious reasons. Should be getting lambda values which welly has just said.

    Hopefully you can get your ECU sorted and get a proper known map on it.
    Been in touch with Revo and thy'll do the chip change so Awesome can then flash Stage 2 Hopefully it'll make good power
    3.2 V6 with Custom Code VVT Attack Software


  5. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandip View Post
    Been in touch with Revo and thy'll do the chip change so Awesome can then flash Stage 2 Hopefully it'll make good power
    Doesn't matter about the power, at least the engine will last. That map isn't the best. By any stretch.
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  6. #45
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    Really interested to see what you can get from your engine as your turbo looks strong from previous boost logs you uploaded.

    You going to get a 3" tip before you get it mapped
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  7. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Welly View Post
    Doesn't matter about the power, at least the engine will last. That map isn't the best. By any stretch.
    You mean Revo isn't the best or my current map lol If Revo S2 makes good use of my airflow and does everything else right then i would expect some strong realiable power, at the moment nothings right really
    3.2 V6 with Custom Code VVT Attack Software


  8. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by S3 Nattie View Post
    Really interested to see what you can get from your engine as your turbo looks strong from previous boost logs you uploaded.

    You going to get a 3" tip before you get it mapped
    I'll be getting the 3"tip after the map, i'd like go to Bills to buy it and possibly dyno it on the same day, if fuelling,timing and boost needs adjusting i'll let Bill do it (even though i hate dynos)
    3.2 V6 with Custom Code VVT Attack Software


  9. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandip View Post
    You mean Revo isn't the best or my current map lol If Revo S2 makes good use of my airflow and does everything else right then i would expect some strong realiable power, at the moment nothings right really
    I meant your poo map.... lol.

    I loved my Revo. I love my Badger 5 Stage 3 more, but my Revo did the job very well.
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  10. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandip View Post
    Ok, just taken the board off, good news, i now know what map i have! woo hoo!!







    I'll be contacting AMD this week
    LOL
    AMD is not AmD

    AMD make silicon devices - hehe

    Your replacement K04 is not performing like a normal K04 with those power levels & high airflow and sustained boost at that rpm. It looks like a hybrid to me... certainly not performing like a std car..
    check your injector duty cycles for no maxing out if your airflows are correct and not a happy maf.. (unlikely given the >1.5bar boost its holding at 6krpm)
    Last edited by badger5; 22nd March 2011 at 09:49.
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  11. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by badger5 View Post
    Your replacement K04 is not performing like a normal K04 with those power levels & high airflow and sustained boost at that rpm. It looks like a hybrid to me... certainly not performing like a std car..
    check your injector duty cycles for no maxing out if your airflows are correct and not a happy maf.. (unlikely given the >1.5bar boost its holding at 6krpm)
    Could it be to do with the high flow manifold fitted?
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  12. #51
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    if it is i WANT ONE

  13. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by superkarl View Post
    if it is i WANT ONE
    LOL.
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  14. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by superkarl View Post
    if it is i WANT ONE
    Yeah good luck with getting one
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  15. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Westle View Post
    Yeah good luck with getting one
    I'm glad I didn't hold out for the JBS Mani I must admit... I would still have been waiting.
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  16. #55
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    speaking of mani's, wasnt there mention of some new unheard of items, or was that downpipes?

  17. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Welly View Post
    Could it be to do with the high flow manifold fitted?
    hmm. i would be surprised if it was personally.
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  18. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by badger5 View Post
    hmm. i would be surprised if it was personally.
    It's a 'nice' manifold but i agree with you Bill, it ain't going to improve my flow to the extent that it is doing

    At high rev/full boost the car missfires/pops quite a lot, is this detonation? I'm currently driving the car with the N75 unplugged
    3.2 V6 with Custom Code VVT Attack Software


  19. #58
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    Ok, unplugged the N75 this morning before work, on the way home i gave it some 'welly' and high up in the rev range the boost went up to 14psi as the revs went towards 6k.

    So this has got me worried! Rang Bill and he kindly advised me that this sounds like boost creep, possibly due to a small wastegate or too much preload on the actuator.

    Some logs will be done later with the N75 unplugged
    3.2 V6 with Custom Code VVT Attack Software


  20. #59
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    14PSI with the N75 unplugged!!?? Jesus Christ!

    Where did you get you turbo from, have you no idea what internals it has?
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  21. #60
    Sandip's Avatar
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    So...here are the logs i did lastnight (with N75 disconnected)



    Last edited by <tuffty/>; 14th May 2011 at 22:45.
    3.2 V6 with Custom Code VVT Attack Software


  22. #61
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    Creeping like a ***** there. Too much pre load on the actuator perhaps could be the issue perhaps.

    Interestingly, it's requesting different fuelling in the first screen shot you posed there. Still lean, but less lean.
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  23. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Welly View Post
    Creeping like a ***** there. Too much pre load on the actuator perhaps could be the issue perhaps.

    Interestingly, it's requesting different fuelling in the first screen shot you posed there. Still lean, but less lean.
    Yeah, that's what Bill said, either too much preload or wastegate to small. 003 is ign and 101 is inj?? Or am i missing something lol

    But yeah correct, creepier than the yorkshire ripper! Would a mbc not cap the boost and stop it overboosting when the N75 is connected??
    3.2 V6 with Custom Code VVT Attack Software


  24. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandip View Post
    Yeah, that's what Bill said, either too much preload or wastegate to small. 003 is ign and 101 is inj?? Or am i missing something lol

    But yeah correct, creepier than the yorkshire ripper! Would a mbc not cap the boost and stop it overboosting when the N75 is connected??
    That sort of defies the point of ecu boost control. I'd be more interested in finding out why it's happening firstly.

    An MBC won't help this problem. You aren't trying to control a spike which the MBC would help with. The issue here is that when the actuator is open, the boost is still climbing.

    Whether air is being sent to the actuator via an MBC or the N75 is irrelevant, it won't help as you will still have the same issue.
    Last edited by Welly; 23rd March 2011 at 09:32.
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  25. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Welly View Post
    That sort of defies the point of ecu boost control. I'd be more interested in finding out why it's happening firstly.

    An MBC won't help this problem. You aren't trying to control a spike which the MBC would help with. The issue here is that when the actuator is open, the boost is still climbing.

    Whether air is being sent to the actuator via an MBC or the N75 is irrelevant, it won't help as you will still have the same issue.
    Good advice! Is the best way to adjust it going to be to take the chargepipe off and adjust from above? Had a quick look lastnight and it looks kinda awkward to get at from the airbox side, couldn't even getthe spanner on it lol
    3.2 V6 with Custom Code VVT Attack Software


  26. #65
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    Just clarify what you're trying to do so I can get a mental picture - adjust the preload?
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  27. #66
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    Mental picture....



    LOL
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  28. #67
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    Yep, i would like to try an adjust the preload, move the nuts closer to the end of the bar, 2 turns??
    3.2 V6 with Custom Code VVT Attack Software


  29. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandip View Post
    Yeah, that's what Bill said, either too much preload or wastegate to small. 003 is ign and 101 is inj?? Or am i missing something lol

    But yeah correct, creepier than the yorkshire ripper! Would a mbc not cap the boost and stop it overboosting when the N75 is connected??
    nope - as i said to you last night
    its a physical thing
    wastegate (for whatever reason, and i suspect its not a std hotside/OR/ bigger than you think it is inside-aka hybrid of sorts) and the wastegate apature is too small.
    they're about 22mm std.. and if chinese castings or non-std casting are being used on it, maybe different size again.

    wellys hybrid crept initially.. 22mm std wastegate port was too small. ported it to hell to 29mm and all sweet after
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  30. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandip View Post
    Yep, i would like to try an adjust the preload, move the nuts closer to the end of the bar, 2 turns??
    Yes go for it, just remember your turns so you can put it back, its the other way thats risky without propper testing

  31. #70
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    I rang PSI Tuning Monday and they would like to see the car, i have had a look at the actuator and i would be able to adjust it but i would like Andy at PSI to check it over first. Spent a lot of money, the last thing i want is to void a warranty incase it is the wastegate that's the issue. Just got to wait now
    Last edited by Sandip; 23rd March 2011 at 20:02. Reason: forgot what day it was
    3.2 V6 with Custom Code VVT Attack Software


  32. #71
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    Quick update : Took the car to PSI Tuning for them to have a look at what's happening with the boost issue. They took the car out and noticed the boost was creeping past 7psi with the N75 disconnected. They then checked actuator pressure made sure it was set correctly. Tried a N75j because unfortunately they never had a new F available, J caused major boost spike (30psi) that came off back to the F.

    Then bypassed the N75 totally, connecting actuator vac line to chargepipe, Simon the tech took the car out and boost was now holding 7psi, happy days, thought all i needed was a new N75. Took the car away (40 lighter) 3rd gear pull (N75 bypassed), boost is still creeping! Took the car back straight away. They checked it again, actuator pressure is correct so they will now be contacting the turbo supplier with regards to my issue.

    I will be recieving a phone call/email this week as to what is going to happen, Pete at PSI told me that the 40 i paid will be refunded if it does come down to the turbo being replaced. I've recieved great service up till now from PSI and the fact this turbo ain't right is not their fault. They had it supplied to them set up, they fitted it. It should work, but it isn't
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  33. #72
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    Do you think it needs porting?

  34. #73
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    Possibly, Bill mentioned that it could be the wastegate aperture that's too small. Ideally the aperture of the Borg Warner K04 needs to be measured against a oem KKK unit. Porting will most likely cure the issue but i'm leaving it up the PSI to rectify as they supplied the turbo
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  35. #74
    www.badger5.co.uk

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    your turbo holds too much pressure >6krpm to be classed as a normal k04.. and flows too much air..
    std wastegate port on k04's I have seen is 22mm, which is smaller than a k03s!
    I port the hybrids out to 29mm which is as far as you can go and still retain the penny seal
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  36. #75
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    Thanks Bill, appreciate the input

    Just come off the phone from speaking to Andy at PSI, we have both decided the best option would be to remove the turbo and get hotside flowed and ported.

    It could be that the oem KKK unit was ok and didn't suffer boost creep because it had the cracks in the hotside, the Borg Warner K04 isn't handling the flow with this manifold, hopefully once ported this problem should be solved.

    Andy did advise me that once ported it may cause boost spike and increase the risk of rod failure so i will be fitting a UNOS mbc once this turbo has been ported. Next step after this may have to be rods before i get the map sorted.

    Would like to thank PSI for being so helpful on this matter and i would also like to thank Bill for helping me diagnose this issue, i never wanted to go hybrid but it looks like it's going to end up being one! Bugger!
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  37. #76
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    ported will improve boost control, not enhance spikes.. larger port will flow more for the same openening angle
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  38. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by badger5 View Post
    ported will improve boost control, not enhance spikes.. larger port will flow more for the same openening angle
    So improve flow = same initial spike (26psi, N75f) but more controllable (no creep)?

    How much more do you think it can flow Bill or is that hard to say without actually looking at the turbo? would improving flow show in maf g/s?
    3.2 V6 with Custom Code VVT Attack Software


  39. #78
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    Bit off topic and a bit pointless but some of you may find it intresting, was speaking to a guy at work who saw and commented on my S3 and it transpires that he used to work for JBS and did the r&d work on your manifold sandip, he also designed a lot of their turbo developments aswell and he and one of his mates are in talks with some engineering companys at present to get the manifold cast/fabricated very shortly so may be available to buy soon at cheaper cost than JBS aswell.

  40. #79
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    From what i'm aware the K04 JBS manifold i have wasn't made here in the UK, middle east i think, could be wrong lol

    From what i am experiencing, putting a highflow cast manifold on a stock K04 isn't straight forward. Mine is not a hybrid and is struggling with the extra flow so if any cast highflow manifold that does become available for the K04 then porting the hotside to match the flow would save a lot of time and money in the long run
    3.2 V6 with Custom Code VVT Attack Software


  41. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandip View Post
    From what i'm aware the K04 JBS manifold i have wasn't made here in the UK, middle east i think, could be wrong lol

    From what i am experiencing, putting a highflow cast manifold on a stock K04 isn't straight forward. Mine is not a hybrid and is struggling with the extra flow so if any cast highflow manifold that does become available for the K04 then porting the hotside to match the flow would save a lot of time and money in the long run
    Thats definitely one for the book isn't it, and a lesson that needs to be heeded for those looking a high flow setup on the K04 in the future.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prawn View Post
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