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  1. #1
    cecilthesausage's Avatar
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    My first Dyno Figures

    Took my car the 20 minute drive down the A19 to Motoscope in Northallerton this morning for her 1st Dyno Run... Quite happy with the result. Would have liked to have had my B5 Tip on but it has,nt arrived yet so it just means I will have to go back again next week after I get it fitted here are the figures anyway... Everyones twopenneth it's gratefully appreciated... Cheers Rob

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  3. #2
    Alex C's Avatar
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    Hi Rob...

    was it 2WD or 4WD?
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    Am i right in thinking that the haldex system will produce fluctuating graphs like that.

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    It was 4 wheel drive with upgraded haldex

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    yeah thats what i thought, that'll be the wiggly graph
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    Good figures to say the least. Onv take it with a pinch of salt. Torque is high though!
    Itl be good you goin bck to the same rr once you have b5tip on to see gains from that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cecilthesausage View Post
    It was 4 wheel drive with upgraded haldex
    I'm surprised the power delivery on the graph is still wiggly with a Haldex Performance Controller fitted. It's suppose to keep the haldex clutch fully closed on full throttle.



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  9. #8
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    When I Vagcom the AWD It says I have an intermittent signal so maybe this would explain this I don't know I'm not that clued up just a beginner

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    I am going to go back next week when I get my B5 Tip and Decat Pipe fitted and see what the difference is Hopefully I will be able to extract a few more ponies out of the old girl

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    I'd check the operation of your N75 valve, mine produced torque figures like that when the N75 was goosed. Your probably unintentionally boosting to about 26psi...
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    Is that really bad Funky

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    Nice results mate, high 280s with the tip?

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    What do you think about the torque figure Dave is it right what Funky is saying

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    Quote Originally Posted by cecilthesausage View Post
    Is that really bad Funky
    If it is goosed then it's bad as you're effectively seeing uncontrolled boost which can cause a variety of issues (larger risk of rod problems due to torque spike and very high EGT's etc). When mine was broken I had a very similar torque and boost curve as can be seen below:





    I'd get it checked with vagcom and if necessary try a replacement N75. Mines just had a new N75 and drives much better
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    Alex C's Avatar
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    Have a look at this thread Cecil

    Increasing Longevity-Engine Rebuild

    this was useful,
    Quote Originally Posted by badger5 View Post
    I would call it a trend... from the calls I receive and rods I sell to those who have suffered the mishap.

    and for those who have'nt picked up the relevance I posted earlier in this thread..
    Detonation is what is the big killer of rods, and I am seeing >30% of cars coming thru here with significant timing pull, which is det.. and causes immense cylinder pressures..

    an example of the pressures I describe.. race engine, but you get the drift.
    2600psi cylinder pressure... on 26degree ign advance, 35psi boost, big turbo 2ltr 20v. engine builder added 4 degrees more timing, cylinder pressures exceeded 3000psi, broke his sensor and made 10hp in an already 780hp motor..
    Headline, 4 degrees of timing produced >400psi more cylinder pressure on top of an already 2600psi..

    std 81mm piston, 2600psi cylinder pressure, pushes 20,749lb onto the piston/rod = 9411kg acting on it, 9.4tonnes compressive

    now compare "boost pressure" in relation to this force acting upon things alone..
    std 81mm piston, 20psi boost, 159.6lb onto piston/rod = 72.4kg

    too much boost, will cause det from excessive timing for that boost, which is where it can all go horribly wrong, if you see the effect ign has on cyl pressures
    SNAP tastic for poor old rods which have seen the cyclic loads for many 1000's of ups and downs..

    There are more cars with other running issues which are creating this det, than tired rods.. but combine the two and its broken rod syndrome.
    MAF's, lean running, shyte cheap maps which run lean, promote det, airleaks to name but a few I have seen in the past 12months... Add to a 100k old engine, wanting a remap for 1st time, unknown history to the car, and its a hell of a lottery game

    Sorry to sound like a merchant of doom
    Last edited by Alex C; 19th March 2011 at 17:59.
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  17. #16
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    I think you have some nice figures and curves. Could maybe run a FORGE UNOS to try and cap the boost so you dont get that initial spike. Hopefully get around the figure Dave has suggested once you get you TIP on and dynoed again.

    What is the fault code exactly which your getting in the AWD module
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    [Dave B]'s Avatar
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    FYI my thread with N75 info in is here: Badger5 TIP & JC Filter on Friday :)
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  19. #18
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    1 Fault Found:
    01312 - Powertrain Data Bus
    37-10 - Faulty - Intermittent
    This is the fault code my AWD is showing

  20. #19
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    Just ordered a new N75 Valve see if that eradicates the problem

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    [Dave B]'s Avatar
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    That should sort your boost issues but the AWD fault is likely something else, maybe a corroded earth strap on the rear diff?
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  22. #21
    "Stick a V8 in it!"

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    You can always pull the haldex fuse and run it in 2WD to get a cleaner power run.

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  23. #22
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    Ye that's what I am going to do next time mate I know there is nothing wrong with the Haldex it works perfectly still could do with getting to the bottom of it though

  24. #23
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    Here it is mate

  25. #24
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    OK peoples, lets not jump the gun here by recommending things to fix a problem that might not exist...

    The first thing to establish is what the actual boost is that's being produced.

    Lets be fair (and this is meant with offence Cecil) those figures are high for the mods that are fitted. It all comes down to the dyno lottery factor as usual. I'd go as far as to say that they are unrealistically high.

    What's to say that the boost isn't absolutely fine, and the dyno is just reading a little on the high side.

    The problem here is the factor of the unknown, and that needs to be removed before any reasonable recommendations can be made.

    I don't think that anyone can say that the torque figure off of a dyno, that noone else has been on to compare figures, means that the car is boosting too high.

    Funky, with yours, there have been many many other 1.8T engines on that dyno that comparisons can be drawn from. Bill was also logging boost so you could see straight away that there was boost issues.

    The way I see it is that the BHP figure that has been produced is unrealistically high, which means that the torque figure is also higher than would normally be expected.

    Cecil, what you need to do is stop buying things to fix a problem you might not have, and either fit a boost gauge, or go back to the place you had it dyno'd (who should have logged the boost really anyway IMO) and find out what boost the turbo is making.

    If it is high, then start investigating ways to fix it. Don't start trying to fix a problem, until you KNOW you have a problem.
    Last edited by Welly; 21st March 2011 at 20:41.
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    Motorscope. I don't badmouth company's, nor will I call anyone's figures BS, but there was a 200sx on their rollers with 500bhp which had stock engine internals, there was also a R33 GTR on there on the same day which made over 500bhp on stock injectors. I know both of these things are not possible on other dynos. Ever.

  27. #26
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    Cheers mate next time I go back I will get a rolling road as opposed to a power run it was all new to me I just got given a sheet at the end of it... But I will wait till I get my TIP of Bill he is waiting for a reducing coupler for the oil breather because mine is 19mm... So what figures do I need to ask them for Welly? Plus I will get him to pull the fuse on the Haldex so I get a smoother curve Is the Dyno the same as Bills?

  28. #27
    Welly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cecilthesausage View Post
    Cheers mate next time I go back I will get a rolling road as opposed to a power run it was all new to me I just got given a sheet at the end of it... But I will wait till I get my TIP of Bill he is waiting for a reducing coupler for the oil breather because mine is 19mm... So what figures do I need to ask them for Welly? Plus I will get him to pull the fuse on the Haldex so I get a smoother curve Is the Dyno the same as Bills?
    They will need to plumb a pipe into the inlet manifold to log boost on the dyno basically. You want to know what the boost pressure is at the inlet manifold, as things like this are important.

    If you want to run the car in 2WD on the dyno, then get them to pull fuse 31.
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    PDTuning in boldon, have a dyno-dynamics RR. Might be worthwhile trying them.

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    oh, and XO motorsport in team valley have an AWD dyno, although dont S3's throw a small wobbler on them?

  31. #30
    Welly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_83 View Post
    PDTuning in boldon, have a dyno-dynamics RR. Might be worthwhile trying them.
    I'd agree with seeing what's what elsewhere. I simply don't believe that a Stage 1 mapped S3 can make 270+ BHP on standard gear.
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  32. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_83 View Post
    oh, and XO motorsport in team valley have an AWD dyno, although dont S3's throw a small wobbler on them?
    Yeah, you get wiggy graphs like the one's Cecil already has. The Haldex system does not love rollers...
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    So what your saying Welly... FWD ftw?



  34. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_83 View Post
    So what your saying Welly... FWD ftw?


    For a smooth graph... yes.
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  35. #34
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    Cecil your car is acting very similar to mine, boost spike and making power (according to the dyno). If you haven't already, it would be worthwhile checking lambda, egt temps and timing.

    My bet would be that your running lean, getting 6's CF on timing and egt will be high. Aggressive map but won't last for long. Changing hardware to help a map is a never ending game lol

    A new map and your car will last for longer, sometimes high figures on dyno's don't mean anything, i know that mine won't stand a chance with a well mapped S3 making a less power

    If your fuelling is ok then a UNOS will be a good idea, cap the boost so it doesn't spike so high, i was going to get one but i'm not now because my issue is my map not coping with my hardware
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  36. #35
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    I find it amazing that everyone has an idea of what going on here from a dyno graph, from an unknown dyno.

    No VAG COM logs, no boost readings, just a dyno graph.

    Get some hard data.
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  37. #36
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    But then Danes producing a dam good 278 on bills, I know that its not final and the end all but bill says his rollers are reletively fair.

  38. #37
    Welly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superkarl View Post
    But then Danes producing a dam good 278 on bills, I know that its not final and the end all but bill says his rollers are reletively fair.
    Thats with Bill's own map which had been tweaked, so not your average Stage 1 S3.

    Dane's S3 didn't make 278 with the 3" TIP on the Stage 1 map. Dane's is also THE most powerful S3 Stage 1 Bill has dyno'd.

    It's speculation anyway, bottom line, it's the dyno lottery.... None of this helps the OP.

    Cecil, is there anyone near you with VAG COM? It would be good if you could go out and get some logs of block 002 and 115/8.
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  39. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Welly View Post
    OK peoples, lets not jump the gun here by recommending things to fix a problem that might not exist...

    The first thing to establish is what the actual boost is that's being produced.

    Lets be fair (and this is meant with offence Cecil) those figures are high for the mods that are fitted. It all comes down to the dyno lottery factor as usual. I'd go as far as to say that they are unrealistically high.

    What's to say that the boost isn't absolutely fine, and the dyno is just reading a little on the high side.

    The problem here is the factor of the unknown, and that needs to be removed before any reasonable recommendations can be made.

    I don't think that anyone can say that the torque figure off of a dyno, that noone else has been on to compare figures, means that the car is boosting too high.

    Funky, with yours, there have been many many other 1.8T engines on that dyno that comparisons can be drawn from. Bill was also logging boost so you could see straight away that there was boost issues.

    The way I see it is that the BHP figure that has been produced is unrealistically high, which means that the torque figure is also higher than would normally be expected.

    Cecil, what you need to do is stop buying things to fix a problem you might not have, and either fit a boost gauge, or go back to the place you had it dyno'd (who should have logged the boost really anyway IMO) and find out what boost the turbo is making.

    If it is high, then start investigating ways to fix it. Don't start trying to fix a problem, until you KNOW you have a problem.
    I believe I suggested checking the operation of the N75, I didn't suggest he should immediately replace it...I then provided more information to help him make an informed decision...in fact, in thread I linked to there's information on how to check it via vagcom and the process of borrowing one to test first...
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  40. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Funky_Junky View Post
    I believe I suggested checking the operation of the N75, I didn't suggest he should immediately replace it...I then provided more information to help him make an informed decision...in fact, in thread I linked to there's information on how to check it via vagcom and the process of borrowing one to test first...
    Sorry dude, I didn't mean you personally. Edited to remove the quote. I think I clicked reply with quote and just started typing....
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  41. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Welly View Post

    Cecil, is there anyone near you with VAG COM? It would be good if you could go out and get some logs of block 002 and 115/8.
    Don't forget 031, i've got a thing for fuelling at the moment
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