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  1. #1
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    Question water methanol injection guys :)

    hi all,

    I'm finally getting my wmi set up on my s3 what psi have you guys got the wmi kicking in at and how much timing pull you lot running

    you will have to help me if I'm getting it wrong I'm new to wmi

    any help would be appreciated


    thank Tony

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  3. #2
    superkarl's Avatar
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    Welly is your man for this! Are these details not in his thread??

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    ive not seen them but i now hes only running 22psi i will send him a pm thanks

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    What kit are you using Tony?

    I've seen this one and thought it was a very good price:

    Water-Methanol Injection System ' Gasoline Engines
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  6. #5
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    AEM kits are pretty good... have a decent controller and sizeable tank as std... I have a Devils Own kit to fit in mine... controllers have been an issue in the past which is why Bill has been using the AEM kits recently...

    <tuffty/>
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  8. #7
    <tuffty/>'s Avatar
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    I think thats an earlier kit in the picture as pretty sure all the new stuff has an integrated nozzle/check valve setup and 200psi pump... may be worth confirming that with them before buying...

    AEM Water/Methanol Injection System, Water/Methanol Injection for Turbos

    That said it looks ok but you can also buy them on ebay...

    <tuffty/>
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    Westy's Avatar
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    There doesn't seem to be many UK stockists? This one is a good price from Latvia:

    AEM WATER METHANOL INJECTION KIT 1 GALLON 3.8L 30-3000 | eBay UK
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  10. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by W3STY View Post
    There doesn't seem to be many UK stockists? This one is a good price from Latvia:

    AEM WATER METHANOL INJECTION KIT 1 GALLON 3.8L 30-3000 | eBay UK
    Thats the fella... I know peeps that have ordered from them... at least I think it was them... that kits description suggests its the older kit...

    I seem to recall Bill ordering a kit from Latvia when he was first looking into the AEM stuff... maybe there are others...

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    Quote Originally Posted by GT30AudiS3 View Post
    Thats the fella... I know peeps that have ordered from them

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  12. #11
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    There's no filter with the above AEM kit but they recommend using a filter. Is this needed?
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  13. #12
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    Dude I've heard about AEM kits off eBay from Latvia being fake/ not AEM parts.

    If Bill can't get the bits you need I might know a guy

    ps


  14. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by W3STY View Post
    There's no filter with the above AEM kit but they recommend using a filter. Is this needed?
    Not fitted one yet... possibly worth a punt if you have the cash... did debate on it myself but I guess as long as you use clean jugs/bottles etc to fill the tank with and have too hard a water supply then should be ok...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dane View Post
    Dude I've heard about AEM kits off eBay from Latvia being fake/ not AEM parts.

    If Bill can't get the bits you need I might know a guy

    ps

    I've already checked out your pics dude.

    Do you want to PM me some info about said "guy" you may know
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    I'm finding out now mate

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    www.badger5.co.uk

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    I doubt they're fakes..
    everything about them is AEM liveried and serialised
    **http://www.facebook.com/Badger5Ltd**

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  18. #17
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    I could be talking out my arse though... lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by tony696 View Post
    hi all,

    I'm finally getting my wmi set up on my s3 what psi have you guys got the wmi kicking in at and how much timing pull you lot running

    you will have to help me if I'm getting it wrong I'm new to wmi

    any help would be appreciated


    thank Tony

    depends on nozzle size and controller.. and boost..
    12psi starting on low and 20psi full on is a guide.. logging will confirm whats best suited to your engine.. as will % of meth to water used
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  20. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by W3STY View Post
    What kit are you using Tony?

    I've seen this one and thought it was a very good price:

    Water-Methanol Injection System ' Gasoline Engines
    im using this kit and not had a problem with it yet
    Coolingmist Water Injection, alcohol injection and Methanol Injection systems

    ive got my tank installed where the audi cd changer and sub was.

    and the pump is in the engine bay as i removed the charcoal canister mate

  21. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by tony696 View Post
    im using this kit and not had a problem with it yet
    Coolingmist Water Injection, alcohol injection and Methanol Injection systems

    ive got my tank installed where the audi cd changer and sub was.

    and the pump is in the engine bay as i removed the charcoal canister mate
    I have just managed to pick up the above Aquamist kit for a bargain £117. It has everything but a controller. From peoples experience is a controller really that important to gradually introduce water/meth or will a boost pressure switch do?

    I understand how the controller works and I will buy one if it is necessary.
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  22. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Westy View Post
    I have just managed to pick up the above Aquamist kit for a bargain £117. It has everything but a controller. From peoples experience is a controller really that important to gradually introduce water/meth or will a boost pressure switch do?

    I understand how the controller works and I will buy one if it is necessary.
    Welly uses a pressure switch but its always nicer to make it more progressive...

    <tuffty/>
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  23. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by <tuffty/> View Post
    Welly uses a pressure switch but its always nicer to make it more progressive...

    <tuffty/>
    Ah yes, and mr Welly flooded his TB with meth. I shall fire Welly a few questions when he's next on line.

    I may keep an eye out for a 2nd hand Devils own or AEM controller.

    Also I've read a lot of stuff about people only running water and wondered how much extra cooling/octane boost the methanol adds when injecting that mixed with the water?
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  24. #23
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    Progressive is better overall tbh... its a bit all or nothing with a pressure switch which could well be a contributing factor to the failure of Welly's TB...

    Boost doesn't equate to airspeed or volume of air... 20v's don't really breath heavy until after 4k and if you are making 12psi (the boost I think Welly's kicks in) way before that then you have all the meth mix at a slower air speed...

    I have a Devils Own controller to fit once I have got the rest of my car sorted...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Westy View Post
    Ah yes, and mr Welly flooded his TB with meth. I shall fire Welly a few questions when he's next on line.

    I may keep an eye out for a 2nd hand Devils own or AEM controller.

    Also I've read a lot of stuff about people only running water and wondered how much extra cooling/octane boost the methanol adds when injecting that mixed with the water?
    The methanol has a high octane of about 116 from memory so you can advance the timing up more than just water alone. Water alone decreases the charge temps which supresses the knock, more timing again, but a combination of the two, 50/50 gets the best of both worlds. Water is free though unless you plan on using Evian or something like that?

  26. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by <tuffty/> View Post
    Progressive is better overall tbh... its a bit all or nothing with a pressure switch which could well be a contributing factor to the failure of Welly's TB...

    Boost doesn't equate to airspeed or volume of air... 20v's don't really breath heavy until after 4k and if you are making 12psi (the boost I think Welly's kicks in) way before that then you have all the meth mix at a slower air speed...

    I have a Devils Own controller to fit once I have got the rest of my car sorted...

    <tuffty/>
    Ahh ok. I was looking at the devils own boost pressure switch which allows you to set a pressure between 2-30psi for fine tuning.

    I'll keep my eye's peeled for a controller but in the mean time I might get the kit fitted up and just running water for a bit of extra cooling. I'll set it so it's only injecting after 16ish psi.
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  27. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Westy View Post
    I have just managed to pick up the above Aquamist kit for a bargain £117. It has everything but a controller. From peoples experience is a controller really that important to gradually introduce water/meth or will a boost pressure switch do?

    I understand how the controller works and I will buy one if it is necessary.
    i use a boost switch mate been on my car for about year now never had any problems

    but its up to you mate all depends how far you want to take it

    this is the one i got water methanol injection boost pressure switch | eBay

  28. #27
    Westy's Avatar
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    I read about a few instances where the mixture hadn't atomised enough before hitting the TB and caused issue with the TB. Welly's was one of them.

    I have however just spotted this which is fitted to Wak's TT



    This will inject the mixture after the TB but before the AIT sensor which is perfect. I might use just the pressure switch but inject after the TB to avoid any damage that might occur.

    Tony do you use water/methanol or just water? Have you had the cooling benefits mapped in on your car?
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  29. #28
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    Have to be careful when you first install as I thought I was just using quite a bit of meth (wasn't to sure how much it should be using) then following day had a fair bit of water go through the engine just after start up to then find 2 litres plus in my cooler ;-(

    Bloody check valve wasn't working and over night had siphoned over 3/4's of a tank of meth

    On a plus side there has been no obvious side effects so think I was lucky and got away with that one :-)
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  30. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by StaceyS3 View Post
    Have to be careful when you first install as I thought I was just using quite a bit of meth (wasn't to sure how much it should be using) then following day had a fair bit of water go through the engine just after start up to then find 2 litres plus in my cooler ;-(

    Bloody check valve wasn't working and over night had siphoned over 3/4's of a tank of meth

    On a plus side there has been no obvious side effects so think I was lucky and got away with that one :-)
    Are you running with a controller or just a boost pressure switch Stace? I'll have to take a look at your system when I come up to see you.
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  31. #30
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    Got the full aem kit with progressive controller and yeah no probs mate will hopefully have some new rims to show off by then as well ;-)
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  32. #31
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    Anyone know where I can hold of a TB sandwich plate like the one shown in the picture above?
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  33. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Westy View Post
    I read about a few instances where the mixture hadn't atomised enough before hitting the TB and caused issue with the TB. Welly's was one of them.

    I have however just spotted this which is fitted to Wak's TT



    This will inject the mixture after the TB but before the AIT sensor which is perfect. I might use just the pressure switch but inject after the TB to avoid any damage that might occur.

    Tony do you use water/methanol or just water? Have you had the cooling benefits mapped in on your car?
    What results has this guy got from placing it after the TB-does he say? You're not going to get the maximum benefit from placing it there mate especially so close to the AIT sensor and the water isn't going to absorb all of the heat you effectively want it to. Can't you place the injector right after your intercooler- this will give it enough time to atomize fully.

  34. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy123 View Post
    What results has this guy got from placing it after the TB-does he say? You're not going to get the maximum benefit from placing it there mate especially so close to the AIT sensor and the water isn't going to absorb all of the heat you effectively want it to. Can't you place the injector right after your intercooler- this will give it enough time to atomize fully.
    I was only looking at this as an option because a few people have has issues with the electric part of the TB failing due to the mixture corroding the PCB board.

    I'm struggling to find anywhere that even does these sandwich plates so it looks like I will be mounting it into the hose post FMIC.
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  35. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by StaceyS3 View Post
    Bloody check valve wasn't working and over night had siphoned over 3/4's of a tank of meth
    How important is a check valve on these systems? I'm assuming the valve stops the mixture entering the bost hose when the car is switched off or not on boost?
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  36. #35
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    I suspect the main reason for these failures is due to (in Wellys case) all the meth at once and in the case of Robbie with the LCR in links Welly posted poor atomisation....

    Decent atomisation is key to is doing the job its supposed to do... great big gobs of meth mix is gonna get in places its not supposed to... properly atomised it will be easily absorbed into the airstream and do what its designed to do...

    How not to fit a nozzle... (4th post...)
    Nozzle Location due to water/meht ingress/pooling - Devilsown Methanol Alcohol Water Injection

    Ideas on nozzle location pros and con etc...
    Where Do I Position My Water Injection Nozzles

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  37. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Westy View Post
    How important is a check valve on these systems? I'm assuming the valve stops the mixture entering the bost hose when the car is switched off or not on boost?
    Very important I'm now thinking of putting a solenoid inline as well as like you say stops the fluid draining of it's own accord or being sucked in when on vacuum and should stop boost pushing it back to the tank 
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  38. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Westy View Post
    How important is a check valve on these systems? I'm assuming the valve stops the mixture entering the bost hose when the car is switched off or not on boost?
    Very... stop wmi syphoning into charge system when not running and boost leaking back to tank etc...

    <tuffty/>
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  39. #38
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    SNAP!! lol

    <tuffty/>
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  40. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by StaceyS3 View Post
    Very important I'm now thinking of putting a solenoid inline as well as like you say stops the fluid draining of it's own accord or being sucked in when on vacuum and should stop boost pushing it back to the tank 
    Ok, check valve on order sheet too. My cheap kit is not looking so cheap now
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  41. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by ;1435048
    SNAP!! lol

    <tuffty/>
    Great minds think alike lol ;-)
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