Prawn and BigAls A3 Track Car

[Prawn]

I expected more gain from a 1mm more lift? Hmmm
Will see if mine is any different with the flowing of the head to next week

Boost tapers off at the top end on my map due to the way the load request is setup, so in this case, at the point where the cams are able to flow more, the map is not currently making use of it, because obviously it wasn't mapped with these cams

Fueling is richer with the new cams in, and the car is adapting and pulling fuel out now, so who knows, maybe it's already making more than it did straight away, we all know adaptations can take time to sort themselves out, and it's not going to be 100% until I get back up to Niki for a map tweak, but I want to wait until I've made a large plenum inlet manifold for that to really see what can be done

 

[<tuffty/>]

This was a similar finding to me mate... with the cams in the boost had dropped (side effect of fixed duty boost control) but defo lifted the top end... overall I lost a bit before 5k and seemed to gain after that but I am going to just try the inlet cam on its own as Bill had a chat with a guy he knows at cat cams who seems t think the exhaust cam is a little pointless but there could be some mileage in just using the inlet...

I am gonna fit my WMI first to get my dyno runs more consistent and then will whip the exhaust cam back out and see what happens... either way its not like my car is slow lol...

<tuffty/>

 

[MIGGZ]

Boost tapers off at the top end on my map due to the way the load request is setup, so in this case, at the point where the cams are able to flow more, the map is not currently making use of it, because obviously it wasn't mapped with these cams

Fueling is richer with the new cams in, and the car is adapting and pulling fuel out now, so who knows, maybe it's already making more than it did straight away, we all know adaptations can take time to sort themselves out, and it's not going to be 100% until I get back up to Niki for a map tweak, but I want to wait until I've made a large plenum inlet manifold for that to really see what can be done

Ok that makes sense I hope I get at least a 10hp gain

 

[badger5]

lupos new egt probe arrived today so I can finally do a before run, before swapping the intake cam.. and log egt's as well as everything else I already log. just need some time however..

we shall see

makes the amd guys results look a little unusual tho.. his gained everywhere did'nt it?

 

[Prawn]

yea, he gained 18bhp and 35lbft everywhere, but it was on a small port ko4 setup, so perhaps releasing potential from an engine that doesn't otherwise flow so well, compared to Tuffty and I adding the cams to engines that already flow very well indeed.

Who knows, that's purely guess work on my part.

I look forward to your testing on the lupo

 

[superkarl]

yea, he gained 18bhp and 35lbft everywhere, but it was on a small port ko4 setup, so perhaps releasing potential from an engine that doesn't otherwise flow so well, compared to Tuffty and I adding the cams to engines that already flow very well indeed.

Who knows, that's purely guess work on my part.

I look forward to your testing on the lupo

does this mean that these cams dont prove much for bills mantra, it should be rewritten maybe, 'its all about the flow (but not so much flow you start to lose low and mid range)'

 

[Reesy]

I only have the inlet one on mine as Mr Parsons thoughts were that the exhaust one wasn't ideal for a turbo car..


Here's Prawn looking for 5p he dropped:

On the rollers:

Car sounding nice:



A good day out and cheers for a go in the car.. Showed a lot more of what it can do then the handling course at inters!

 

[badger5]

yea, he gained 18bhp and 35lbft everywhere, but it was on a small port ko4 setup, so perhaps releasing potential from an engine that doesn't otherwise flow so well, compared to Tuffty and I adding the cams to engines that already flow very well indeed.

Who knows, that's purely guess work on my part.

I look forward to your testing on the lupo

lupo being boggo aum motor aside from its rods

 

[badger5]

does this mean that these cams dont prove much for bills mantra, it should be rewritten maybe, 'its all about the flow (but not so much flow you start to lose low and mid range)'

lol.. Still all about the flow, but when you blow that flow straight thru the motor and not fill the cylinders with it, that does'nt count hehe

 

[Prawn]

Well that is indeed why Audi went to small port, to give a more even torque delivery across the rev range.

The mantra doesn't specify what type of flow, high, low, direction so I think it's still applies, and the assumption is that it's all about getting the flow right for your requirements

I fully expected the small losses on figures lower down, although they're so small you cannot notice them whilst driving at all, it feels exactly the same below 5k, but above 5k it feels noticeably faster, so I'd consider that a result.

As with all things, you build / tune for your intended purpose, and I have no interest in anything below 4.5k what so ever

Still, highest UK ko4 hybrid figures ever seen on a dyno dynamics / independent dyno, I'll take that

 

[Prawn]

Cheers for the vid Chris, it does sound nice actually! Quite like that

It seems like sticking the stock exhaust cam back in might be beneficial, seeing as its silly fast anywayim happy to wait until tuffty tests his setup with stock exhaust, and if it yields further gains I may change back, but for now at least I'm very happy with it

 

[StaceyS3]

You look at a lot of the known performance cam manufacturers for the 1.8t most reconmend just a drop in intake cam as the exhaust is probably sufficient for our power levels

Catcams for instance on of they're best looking cam setups is the 3658 which takes the mild exhaust cam from the 3651's and the lairy intake from the 3652's

There's some really good info in this thread

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4548398-Cam-comparison-dynos

On this thread it's got the dyno plots and can see the 3652 lairy exhaust moves the power so far up the rev range, can also see that just the drop in intake performs quite well

http://www.dubsinthebuff.com/forum/showthread.php?18755-1-8t-Cat-Cams-comparison-GOOD-INFO

Just thought it was some good info and found it interesting when was doing all my searching

 

[StaceyS3]

Sorry how rude of me, I forgot to say well done on the effort mate as needs the documented results to back it up

I'm sure you'll keep pushing the K04 framed limits on the 1.8t up and up

 

[S3 Paul]

Jesus... i think about playing catch up on the parts front and the goal posts move again lol
I realy do need to see this car on track. Well done on the power front pal

 

[Prawn]

Always the way Paul, the way stuff has been moving forward this past year is just crazy, it seems like it'll never stop, With Bill and Niki bouncing mapping ideas off each other, and Dan coming up with more and more interesting hybrids, the future for OE framed turbos is very bright indeed I think.

I got a walbro 255 fuel pump off Ben at the weekend, so I might try fitting that into a spare swirl pot and seeing how it performs, it's been at the back of my mind that the stock pump may be on it's limits currently anyway, and I'd rather not find out the hard way!

As I'm lazy, I'm going to wait until Tuffty swaps back to an OE exhaust cam with the ADR inlet and see if that yields any further gains for him, if it does then I'll make the swap, but to be honest, as it is now, 330/340/350? it's fecking fast! So I'm in no hurry

it is nice though, and very reassuring to see it consistently putting out similar numbers wherever it goes, I've been to too many dyno days where cars have made XXX when mapped, then about 80% of that on another dyno and the owners have been mortified.

I was also given a shift light from AndyP this weekend, so I'll be wiring that up on Saturday with any luck

 

[bigal 1]

Shift Light!!! Yippeeeeeeee. At long last.

 

[S3 Paul]

I have an OMEX shift light in my golf... It has 4 LEDs and untill they are all flashing i will not change lol

 

[bigal 1]

How in the name of hell at my age can I do the following; firstly get into the car, look where I'm going, concentrate, listen, (normally to an earful from my co-driver), make decisions, work out what the guy in front is going to do, make a decision on the next bend, normally, where is it ??? (turn in late or early), when and where do I brake and how hard , and on top of all that I'm expected to look at the the ****** rev counter .

 

[bigal 1]

:end_of_discction:

 

[Prawn]

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

this is why we're fitting a shift light for you Big Bad

i migh set it at 5000rpm to stop you getting into trouble or

 

[bigal 1]

You can't set the rev counter at 5k. Remember, grass cutting at 110mph is very effective.

 

[Westy]

Prawny I think you need to fit your dad with a set of horse blinkers so he can concentrate only on what's infront of him

 

[Prawn]

Prawny I think you need to fit your dad with a set of horse blinkers so he can concentrate only on what's infront of him

You know, in 3501 posts, that might be the most sensible idea yet!! I could mould them into the side of his helmet!

 

[bigal 1]

Good idea. Email to Italy time me thinks!. OMP used to make moulded blinkers into helmets for the Ferrari gigolos.!!!

 

[Prawn]

Summer shoes have arrived

will go on my black s3 rims. Can't wait to try these out!

 

[MIGGZ]

Mmmmm porn!!!!
Thanks for getting them for me ill come pick them up this weekend!

 

[Westy]

You've got more sodding tyres then Kwik Fit!

I should expect the levels of grip from these full slicks will be mind blowing compared to the road legals.

 

[Paradox1]

They will be crazy when fitted!

 

[Jason.s]

Go away please you`re making us all sad lol.

 

[S3 Paul]

Just a quick count up... how many sets of track tyres do you have??

 

[bigal 1]

We can't help it. Its the tyre fairy.

 

[Prawn]

eeeeeeeeeeeeeerm, good question Paul!

Road wheels are OZ superT with Vredesteins, to use as track wets if needs be

Rotas with federal RSR - now nearing the end of their life

A set of brand new Dunlop Direzza 03G ready to replace the federals

A set of TT comps with Pirelli P-zero Corsa semis for airfield days

A set of TT rims with worn out A048's, now being replaced by these slicks.

So that's the road wheels, and another 3 sets with various tyres for various uses

Got some random old slicks in the garden that I've never used too, but they're near dead and have lived outside for ages, so will probably be binned.

 

[Westy]

We can't help it. Its the tyre fairy.

Big Al, are you the stock manager? Where the hell do you 2 keep all the sets of wheels and tyres?

 

[Prawn]

I should expect the levels of grip from these full slicks will be mind blowing compared to the road legals.

I hope so mate, last time on track, we were finding that full boost wasn't really useable with the federals, as I was getting 3rd gear wheelspin on long sweeping bends at 100mph+, the way the quaife ATB works it never actually locks, it just transfers the torque around, so a proper plate diff would be nicer, but not something we plan to invest in.

It was a very, very cold day though last time, so track temps and tyre temps stayed VERY low, in warmer weather full boost hooks up OK, but with these slicks it should carry more corner speed, and make more use of it's full power on the exit of the bends too, so it should be win win and G-force central!

There was no point in trying slicks previously, as road going geo and slicks do not mix well at all, to see any benefit from slicks you needs lots of camber, and stiff suspension. The old setup with weitecs and stock 1.5 degrees camber wouldn't have worked well at all, now that we're rocking over 2.5 degrees front camber and over 2 degrees rear, tyre temps across the tread were spot on at Dony, with the insides being slightly hotter than the outsides after a session, so just what you want, and ready for slicks in summer

They're also massive, at 240 wide

 

[badger5]

your brake will cook

Prediction

 

[Prawn]

your brake will cook

Prediction

I think I'm just going to have to convince myself not to use the tyres to their full potential under braking.

You're right though, given the added grip, I think I could easily destroy the brakes in a few laps.

Do you suffer from any brake fade issues with your 330's Bill? I've often wondered if a caliper change would be worth while when the upgrade to 330's eventually comes, due to the small pad area on the LCR/ICR brembo calipers..

 

[Westy]

I think I'm just going to have to convince myself not to use the tyres to their full potential under braking.

You're right though, given the added grip, I think I could easily destroy the brakes in a few laps.

Do you suffer from any brake fade issues with your 330's Bill? I've often wondered if a caliper change would be worth while when the upgrade to 330's eventually comes, due to the small pad area on the LCR/ICR brembo calipers..

Where does it end! Bigger brakes will need bigger wheels and they will both weigh more so you'll need ceramic brakes and magnesium wheels. Before you know it you'll be in the F1 Championship

 

[ScottD3]

Where does it end! Bigger brakes will need bigger wheels and they will both weigh more so you'll need ceramic brakes and magnesium wheels. Before you know it you'll be in the F1 Championship

There is a F1 wheel for sale in the Classified section.

 

[Reesy]

Where does it end! Bigger brakes will need bigger wheels and they will both weigh more so you'll need ceramic brakes and magnesium wheels. Before you know it you'll be in the F1 Championship

All this after fiddling with his old man's helmet...

Also Fred, that post makes you sound about 107.

 

[Prawn]

Also Fred, that post makes you sound about 107.

I thought he was already