Prawn and BigAls A3 Track Car

[MIGGZ]

JOM's for road, KW's for track

Lol I can't afford 2 sets of coils, mine is a everyday car lol

 

[Prawn]

Nor can jardo! I think he's just stating a preference

 

[Sam_]

Sure, the idea of an adjustment top mounts is not new but that design is identical. You have to admit that Be interested to see more pics of them, to see if they rely on the pillow ball for the rotational force too as it'll quickly wear it out. Ground control revised their design to add a bearing on the spring pan.

Here's the other manufacturers:

KW

K-Mac

H2Sport

 

[MIGGZ]

Nor can jardo! I think he's just stating a preference

Lol ok

 

[Prawn]

I haven't actually seen them yet myself Sam, so ill let you know when I do. I believe the slotted design with retaining bolts is taken from most e36 style top mounts though, and is think GC have taken the idea from there too.

As for the bearings, here's an underside pic I've been sent:

id definitely looks like there's something more than a single rose joint there. Will see for sure when I pick them up tomorrow

 

[Sam_]

Cool, yeah get some pics up. They certainly seem well priced!

I assume you use your current top spring pans?

 

[16Klappe]

The obvious difference is that the others are eccentric adjustment where as these are sliders.

There is only two ways to adjust the camber from the top mount, eccentric or slider style. I just see it as two products which do the same thing in a similar way, there isn't really any other way to do it.

 

[Prawn]

Cool, yeah get some pics up. They certainly seem well priced!

I assume you use your current top spring pans?

Yes mate, will be using the standard KW top spring caps, so it's worth nothing that these mounts would lower the car by around 15mm if fitted with standard suspension.

obviously I'll just raise it back up to compensate.

Very well priced indeed, I've not seen them yet as they've been delivered to a mate, but he assures me the quality is excellent.

I'll get a first hand look tomorrow afternoon when I collect them, then I'll fit them on Sunday and we'll see what they're like!

The bearings are also easily and cheaply replaced, as this was my very first question to Silver-Project when looking into these.

Hopefully we're onto something really good with these

 

[Sam_]

Yeah I had to replace the bearings on mine, I've yet to fit them though. Waiting on my tubular control arms from USRT first.

I think they all effect ride height to varying degrees. Stacey had to make some spacers for his springs as I'm sure you saw. I've got plenty of adjustment on my Bilsteins so should be ok too.

 

[Sam_]

The obvious difference is that the others are eccentric adjustment where as these are sliders.

There is only two ways to adjust the camber from the top mount, eccentric or slider style. I just see it as two products which do the same thing in a similar way, there isn't really any other way to do it.

K-Mac ones are sliders
K-Mac Camber and Caster Adjustable Top Mounts for Golf MK4 & Bora - uk-mkivs

 

[Sam_]

Decent round up of all the top mounts for the MK4

VWVortex.com - MkIV Camber plate list

 

[Prawn]

good info Will read that at lunch.

Back out into the cold for me now!

 

[Prawn]

Just dropped the car off at the bodyshop to have the quarter repaired!

Fingers crossed it comes out OK!

 

[Prawn]

 

[Jason.s]

Nice shiny wheels! Lol! Thank god they aren't on normally

 

[16Klappe]

Nice shiny wheels! Lol! Thank god they aren't on normally

TT comps look ****ing awesome on A3's IMO.

 

[Prawn]

They're lovely wheels, but I have to say, the blingy polished look doesn't really work on this car! Refurb required ASAP!

turns out the car was more bet than we realised, they'd had it on a big this morning pulling the B-pillar back into shape!

 

[Jason.s]

Nice on some cars but the look of your car doesn't suit them as you say.

 

[bigal 1]

I like them but not the colour as said. I quite fancy trying the bronze like the rota's.

 

[Prawn]

Then Bronze they shall go BBD

So, today is a GOOD day.

The car is now the same shape it was when it was made, rather than the unique shape I accidentally made it on that fateful day in July.

I dropped it off at 7am this morning with a mate, and picked it up at 4pm this evening.

They've just done the quarter panel repair today, as it was a fairly major job. Final paint in colour will follow in the new year

A few pics during the day:

And in primer:

Then a coat of matt black just to tone it down for when I take it home over xmas!

Very, very happy indeed, to think it's the same panel, and it hasn't got huge amounts of filler on it either, the whole thing still sounds metallic all over MASSIVE thanks to Jamie and his mate Rob for getting it so good

Can't wait for it to be finished and back to it's proper colour

 

[Rainbird]

Winner. Considering I've not seen this car in the metal since it was the daily I'm looking forward to catching up over Christmas for a proper perv! Looks great, major kudos for that bodywork.

 

[bigal 1]

Nice to see you on ASN. Hope you are well. Haven't seen very much of you for a couple of years. Come round over Christmas, you are always welcome. Since we know you ,we will only charge you half price for beer. ( its pretty good, its the one I made last may for the August gay and hearty . Also have another 25 gallons of home made for sampling. Some good, some evil and some B serious. Don't worry, the most expensive only cost me 45p per pint.

 

[Rainbird]

Indeed - I've been mega busy with finishing uni/work type things of late so will be sure to show my face. Will be good to have a proper, remotely sober catchup!

 

[s3dave]

Looking good Mr Prawny.....its nice when panels are nice and true...you feel like washing her again....

 

[16Klappe]

Looking good Mr Prawny.....its nice when panels are nice and true...you feel like washing her again....

Hahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahaha.

You do not know how funny that is.

Prawn's never washed that car in his ****ing life! He gets the Polish blokes to do it now, but when I was in Basingstoke we used to swap cars/he'd take the Polo to work once a week so I could clean it for him. He even used to get Frenchman to clean it for him back in 2007 when he couldn't be ***** to do it himself.

You'd think he'd be proud of his car and he'd love cleaning it up and taking care of it, but not Prawn. If it doesn't involve making a breakfast Pasta & Sauce hybrid of broccoli and cheese mixed with ham and leek he couldn't care less.

Lazy ****er.

 

[Prawn]

Not true! I cleaned the ******* yesterday morning at 7am in the cold! and will be cleaning it again today

Jobs for today involve recorering from Christmas party, fitting top mounts, making some more adjustments to the shifter, then maybe start on refurbing these calipers. I'll see how I feel

 

[bigal 1]

"You don't know how funny that is"

Which ever way it is the car is always immaculate and I get a rocket if the smallest thing is left inside ,and that can be driving gloves left on the seat not in the net.

 

[Prawn]

"You don't know how funny that is"

Which ever way it is the car is always immaculate and I get a rocket if the smallest thing is left inside ,and that can be driving gloves left on the seat not in the net.

This, it's usually filthy outside, but cables, wires,glasses, pain killers (for the wine) tubs of hand cream, and all other Dad related rubbish are not allowed inside the car at all. Business only

 

[16Klappe]

"You don't know how funny that is"

Which ever way it is the car is always immaculate and I get a rocket if the smallest thing is left inside ,and that can be driving gloves left on the seat not in the net.

This calls for protest.

I just wrote a post with no less than 38 pictures of the A3 at various times all dirty.

I think I'll just leave this one here...

On the subject of things being left inside, can I have my Bolle ski glasses back, which have been in the car since Febuary? Thanks. x

 

[Prawn]

Fastest site vehicle ever?

 

[Prawn]

Another good day today

Started off by fitting the new Silver-Project adjustable top mounts

I previously had Eibach eccentric top mounts fitted, and whilst these have been great, they're eccentric, offsetting the strut by a set amount. And then you rotate the mount to alter the camber / caster gain, but the two are very much dependant on each other. As one goes, up, the other goes down. For a fast road setup I think they're ideal, as they retain the rubber top mount, and improve geo, but I wanted more!

...so, the eibach mounts prior to stripping down:

I had modified these by removing the locating pin and tapping a thread into them, so allow a bolt to be screwed down into the mount to lock it's rotation. This worked better than the eibach design, which could easily break off if you didn't have it aligned 100% when torquing it down.

Top caps off, and just the lower nut to remove:

One Silver Project top mount waiting to go on:

Old mounts removed, and I took the spring cap off the KW's to check how it'd all mate together.

Now, I was told that these could replace all the standard top mounts and bearings totally, but if I were to use the lower fitting from the kit only, it would put all the rotation of the strut through the spherical bearing, which, as Sam highlighted earlier, could well shorten the life of the bearing:

However, When you fitted the OE top mount bearing in between the spring cap and the new part, everything seemed to fit together rather perfectly:

The OE bearing fits the KW's pefectly, and the lower collar of the top mount kit fits inside the casing of the OE top mount perfectly.

This cannot be co-incidence, it's got to go like this. This way, the pillowball takes all the weight, and seals with strut location and any angular changes during the shock travel, but the OE bearing deals with all rotational forces from steering. Cheap and dead easy to replace, and proven to last very well. It seems like a good combo to me.

So, time to fit it all

Lower plate and bearing installed on the strut:

Lower half of the topmount in the turret:

And coming together:

Then the top cap goes on, and the bolts go in, and it's looking complete:

Repeat for the other side:

And they're done!

I've not had it aligned yet, but I'm now showing around 2.8 degrees of negative camber, and I expect around 9.5 degrees caster. On the test drive intial impressions are very promising, the ride is smooth and good, and not anywhere near as harsh as I thought it might be. The car feels incredibly pointy on turn in and just goes where I want it, with no delay. Steering feel seems better, you can you really feel the effects of the increased caster with a nice weight around centre to the steering.

Once I've got some new wishbone bushes I'll get it all corner weighted and aligned again, but first impressions are that this kit is VERY good value for money. It fits perfectly, it's very easy to adjust, the rose joints are a standard size and replaced for just a few quid if needs be, and by utilising the OE upper bearings also it should give everything a decent life span.

I wouldn't hesitate to run these on a road car either.

Massive thanks to Silver-Project for the top mounts, if anyone is intersted they can be found here: SilverProject

Or on ebay here:

Camber Plates Golf MK4 , SEAT LEON , AUDI A3 - CAMBER CASTER | eBay

 

[ReDBull]

Very impressive, but I couldn't stop thinking about home brew...

 

[MIGGZ]

Awsome work mate, I would like to see how it feels on a everyday road car with normal tyres, but (and I stand for correction) is it not true that after 1.5degrees tyre life will decrease?

 

[Prawn]

oh man, that stuff is evil, take whatever number of pints you'd usually get through on an average night, and half it for the number of pints of home brew you could handle. It's savage stuff, although we seem to have developed a taste for it!

I did more stuff today too. Messed about with my shifter some more.

I decided to shorten the throw fore / aft on the new shifter, so thought I'd refit the TT ''short shift' that I removed when I first fitted the VWMS setup, I removed the short shifter as I didn't want it too short on the throw, but the fore /aft throw wasn't much different to stock, so I decided to fit this again.

I drilled out the stainless pressed pin, and ground it back to a flat surface:

Then fitted a ball joint into the hole.

Comparison with the stock 02J shifter:

Difference in leverage is minimal to be honest, stock lever measures 51mm from pivot to cable connection, TT lever meaures 42mm, so not a great deal in it

Fitted that, and compared the lever travel to before.

On the stock shifter, this is 3rd gear:

And this is 4th:

And on the TT unit, this is 3rd:

And this is 4th:

So, 4.5'' total throw on the standard lever, and 3.5'' total throw with the TT shifter. Not huge, but definitely noticable when using it

Took the car out for a little drive earlier, in damp but drying conditions, and I can safely say, it's absolutely terrifying! Maximum concentration required for this one!

 

[Sam_]

not anywhere near as harsh as I thought it might be.

...

I wouldn't hesitate to run these on a road car either.

I'd agree, having ran them on my 205 with Group A Bilsteins and driving daily, I found they didn't really have downsides. Most of the time it's people with no experience of running rose joints, or experience with cheap ones.

Interesting to see they use the stock bearing. That's probably easier than the Ground Control that use needle bearings and their own spring pan. Just wonder how much stick the OEM bearing can take. Think one of mine has died in <12 months. Makes a bit of groaning now and then.

 

[Prawn]

OEM bearings on LCR top mounts have done me fine for several years, I wonder how much difference making the top solid will make? I pulled one apart today, and the bearings are pretty chunky, which surprised me.

When you say yours has died in 12 months, is that an OEM one Sam? or a ground control one?

 

[bigal 1]

oh man, that stuff is evil, take whatever number of pints you'd usually get through on an average night, and half it for the number of pints of home brew you could handle. It's savage stuff, although we seem to have developed a taste for it!

Girls and pansies should not apply. Strictly for men only. I thinks I will try half the amount of water again. Did it a few years ago at the August Fest. Heard some people were still in the "Priory" ****** pansies.

 

[Sam_]

I guess using needle bearings would be as solid as using OEM bearings wouldn't it? I doubt there would be a huge difference between them.

Yeah it was an OEM one (Sachs from memory) that's groaning but it might be a bad one.

Looking forward to fitting my top mounts, just waiting for the USRT control arms to arrive so I can do it in one hit

 

[ScottD3]

So, 4.5'' total throw on the standard lever, and 3.5'' total throw with the TT shifter. Not huge, but definitely noticable when using it

That's my complete throw from 1st to reverse.


Ok, I got nothing constructive to really add. I'm just here to look at the pictures and enjoy the work that goes in to this build.

 

[rezulteo]

Impressive stuff!